[PulseGlazer]

Originally Posted by sirdilznik

/facepalm

My bad. I can't believe I forgot that, I mean it just happened. Doh!

I guess what I should have said is that he just doesn't seem to win the big matches with the Olympic Slam anymore. Years ago it was close to 50/50 on whether he would win by Ankle Lock or Olympic Slam. These days it seems more like 85/15 Lock/Slam. Maybe I'm just remembering wrong.

[tangent]One of the things I used to love about Benoit was his variety of finishers. He won with the Crossface, He won with the Headbutt, He won with the Sharpshooter (I think if you're Canadian you are automatically entitled to get like a half dozen Sharpshooter wins), He even (rarely) won with the Triple Germans. Same thing with Kobashi. He could win with the Lariat, enough Half-Nelson Suplexes, the Moonsault, the Brainbuster, and if he broke out the Burning Hammer it was all over for sure.[/tangent]

I guess I wish Kurt had another finisher. The Super Olympic Slam off the second rope is sweet but that's just a beefed up Olympic Slam. Too bad he's not Canadian. Then he could adopt the Sharpshooter. Maybe some kind of Backbreaker variation?

The ankle lock is more incredibly inneffective but easy to hook in than deadly. He does it four times! No other finisher is applied nearly that much.

Multiple finishers are nice, but ultimately unneccessary if you're good enough, which Angle isn't. He was for like three years and even then he was a bit over-rated.

[sirdilznik]

Originally Posted by PulseGlazer

The ankle lock is more incredibly inneffective but easy to hook in than deadly. He does it four times! No other finisher is applied nearly that much.

That part is at least somewhat realistic. Being a big MMA fan I know that moves like the Ankle Lock or a Heel Hook where you twist the foot are mostly just pain maneuvers. That's not to say that you couldn't injure someone with it, but it's not nearly as likely as some other submissions like for example an Armbar (Cross Arm Breaker) or a Knee Bar. With those last 2 submissions where you put the pressure directly against a joint, if you don't get out of it quickly, or tap, you can very easily get your tendons torn or a limb snapped (Angle's "Tap or Snap" motto would apply to these moves much better). With twisting type maneuvers it's usually more a matter of how much pain can you tolerate (I remember a classic MMA fight in Pride between Ken Shamrock and Don Frye where they both had each other in Heel Hooks for seemingly an eternity). It's very rare that you see someone tap quickly to a move like that unless they are new to the ground game and panic.

Again I'm over analyzing.

Edit: Sorry for going off topic so much

[PulseGlazer]

Originally Posted by sirdilznik

That part is at least somewhat realistic. Being a big MMA fan I know that moves like the Ankle Lock or a Heel Hook where you twist the foot are mostly just pain maneuvers. That's not to say that you couldn't injure someone with it, but it's not nearly as likely as some other submissions like for example an Armbar (Cross Arm Breaker) or a Knee Bar. With those last 2 submissions where you put the pressure directly against a joint, if you don't get out of it quickly, or tap, you can very easily get your tendons torn or a limb snapped (Angle's "Tap or Snap" motto would apply to these moves much better). With twisting type maneuvers it's usually more a matter of how much pain can you tolerate (I remember a classic MMA fight in Pride between Ken Shamrock and Don Frye where they both had each other in Heel Hooks for seemingly an eternity). It's very rare that you see someone tap quickly to a move like that unless they are new to the ground game and panic.

Again I'm over analyzing.

Edit: Sorry for going off topic so much

Realism is nice, but in wrestling storytelling and drama in the ring reign supreme.

[sirdilznik]

Originally Posted by PulseGlazer

Realism is nice, but in wrestling storytelling and drama in the ring reign supreme.

Agreed 1000%

[TheUnholyDragon]

Jeff Hardy vs. Shawn Michaels - ****

From Raw, though I can't recall the date.

This is simple goodness. Jeff plays the underdog while Shawn plays the veteran and it works really well for what it is. Both guys bring a lot of simple yet effective work, building the match quite nicely towards the finish. The ending sequence is really well done with both guys looking well prepared for the match and just countering all the signature offense until Jeff gets one up on Shawn for the upset win. GREAT stuff and a good example of why Jeff is being pushed to the moon right now. He'll need to stop playing the underdog if he wants to become a top guy though, and that could be his downfall as I'm more interested in the chase than a run on top right now.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by TheUnholyDragon

Jeff Hardy vs. Shawn Michaels - ****

From Raw, though I can't recall the date.

This is simple goodness. Jeff plays the underdog while Shawn plays the veteran and it works really well for what it is. Both guys bring a lot of simple yet effective work, building the match quite nicely towards the finish. The ending sequence is really well done with both guys looking well prepared for the match and just countering all the signature offense until Jeff gets one up on Shawn for the upset win. GREAT stuff and a good example of why Jeff is being pushed to the moon right now. He'll need to stop playing the underdog if he wants to become a top guy though, and that could be his downfall as I'm more interested in the chase than a run on top right now.

i believe that was the Raw before No Way Out.

[Dark Church]

Originally Posted by TheUnholyDragon

Jeff Hardy vs. Shawn Michaels - ****

From Raw, though I can't recall the date.

This is simple goodness. Jeff plays the underdog while Shawn plays the veteran and it works really well for what it is. Both guys bring a lot of simple yet effective work, building the match quite nicely towards the finish. The ending sequence is really well done with both guys looking well prepared for the match and just countering all the signature offense until Jeff gets one up on Shawn for the upset win. GREAT stuff and a good example of why Jeff is being pushed to the moon right now. He'll need to stop playing the underdog if he wants to become a top guy though, and that could be his downfall as I'm more interested in the chase than a run on top right now.

I don't think so because it has worked well for Cena. As for the match I enjoyed it quite a bit. In fact it has been one of my favorite Hardy matches during his recent push.

[Ytt]

I think Briscoe's vs Naomichi Marufuji & Takashi Sugiura from 3/2/08 is a candidate, pretty solid match with a truely awesome finish.

[T-C]

The finish was out of this world but the rest of the match didn't do much for me.

[Spartanlax]

I'm watching the match soon- I keep hearing the finish is amazing. I'm really excited to see it. But first, Morishima/Misawa!