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**ROH** · 01-05-2007, 04:22 PM

^ What I think:

Better Than Our Best
Dragon Gate Challenge
Final Battle 2005

**-Mystery-** · 01-05-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R_O_H

^ What I think:

Better Than Our Best
Dragon Gate Challenge
Final Battle 2005

Meh. Much like Joe vs. Kobashi if you've seen the main event there is no reason to go out and buy the show immeadiately unless you want to really see Danielson/Marufuji.

**ROH** · 01-05-2007, 04:36 PM

^ Pretty much. The undercard was fine though, and I though Dragon/Maru was an excellent match.

**-Mystery-** · 01-05-2007, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R_O_H

^ Pretty much. The undercard was fine though, and I though Dragon/Maru was an excellent match.

Agreed. The double main event was great but just not enough for me to suggest it over SOH or ROH. However, it's not a show to be passed up. I'd probably wait until the next $10 DVD sale to pick it up.

MrPaiMei · 01-05-2007, 05:50 PM

THE BITTER END

Oh boy, this ain't gonna be pretty.

Christopher Daniels vs. Matt Cross - Once again, Gabe gets mucho credit from me for booking the perfect opener, the crowd was totally into it and loved Cross's innovative dodgy stuff. Cross should be a great addition to the midcard and is a perfect showcase guy for the four ways. Daniels, as always, was great and showed why every night you can expect at least a good match from him. I don't care what anyone says, the man can tell a great story, DOES have charisma, and is constantly making newcomers look good. Very good match, and a great post match angle with the Kings that made them uber-heels, though the crowd was dead by their match anyway. ***

And then, it all goes downhill. Cornette comes out with Hagadorn, and books the now famous ridiculous rules for the FWH. This doesn't work for ROH crowds, none of them beleive those rules will actually stick. Konnan come out and they do the immigration argument, which means nothing to the majorly white, suburban, northeast crowd. It all leads to Hagadorn vs. Reyes, which was a squash but not the kind the crowd would have liked. *

BJ Whitmer vs. Colt Cabana vs. Pelle Primeu vs. Tank Toland - Funny four corner with Pelle being an absolute whipping boy, Colt being hilarious, and thats about it. Pelle pins Toland, who could be a great fit in Sweeney's stable. **1/4

Bryan Danielson and Jimmy Rave vs. Nigel McGuinness and Samoa Joe - Old school tag with Dragon and Rave doing the cheap heel tactics, before finally breaking down into the pairings of Rave vs. Nigel and Dragon vs. Joe. Eventually, Nigel pins Jimmy in an above average tag match, and Jimmy flips out after the match at a TP throwing fan. ***1/2

I believe it is at this point that they do the angle where Cornette gets fired. This was very Russoish, it was weird to try and blend kayfabe (Cornette as power figure) and shoot (Cary and Gabe as power figures). Cornette gets fired, all rules are original, yada yada yada.

Davey Richards and Delirious vs. Jay and Mark Briscoe - More tag action with more heels getting a lot of heat, which at this point is pissing the crowd off more than riling them up. Its the Briscoes, so its obviously good, but Davey and Delirious weren't really clicking (fist match together, I believe) and it was not as good as your average Briscoes match. ***1/4

Kings of Wrestling vs. Austin Aries and Roderick Strong - MORE tag matches with MORE heels doing MORE cheap heel tactics. And this can't hold a candle to the New York match. It started hot, but then degenerated into a very slow, uneventful match that while still pretty good, considering the talent involved, was a big letdown. I will note that at this point I despise the show, so I should probably watch this again to reaffirm my position. ***1/4

KENTA vs. Matt Sydal - Overhyped. Very good, but overhyped. I couldn't get into it at all, I never felt as if Matt had a chance, the only two nearfalls were at the very end and it was a squash. Matt's only glimmering hope was the rana at the end, and when I felt like it was gonna pick up, KENTA hit the knee for a nearfall and the G2S for the win. Sydal got his ass kicked, hit a rana, and lost. Much like the AJ-Sydal match from earlier this year, ya, it was good, but not THAT good. ***3/4

Homicide vs. Steve Corino - I am so conflicted by this match. It was supposed to be a brawl, and as that, it was great, about as good as Cide-Cabana IMO. But, for what was one of the most important matches in ROH history, Cide got 0 pop, the crowd wasn't into it, even though it was good. They did better in 2003, but this was still great. But the Konnan thing killed the crowd, no doubt about it. Stuff like Cide no selling Corino's finishers should have whipped the crowd into a frenzy, but instead they sat on their hands. It really would have been better to do this in NYC in 2007, or even main event Boston with this, put KENTA/Richards vs. Aries/Strong on in Philly. But hindsights 20/20, I geuss. I'll try and rate this on match quality, as a brawl, but it could have been so much better ****

I didn't like this one bit. The match quality is pretty good, if unspectacular. But the angles suck, its extremely repititious, and just didn't entertain me. Only buy for the main or if your a Sydal fanatic, otherwise avoid.

**ROH** · 01-05-2007, 06:28 PM

^ Left feedback on the ROH board - I completely agree on KENTA/Sydal.

**Jack Evans 187** · 01-05-2007, 07:29 PM

I finally got Manhattan Mayhem in the mail today. Here's some ratings:

Manhattan Mayhem
Izzy/Deranged vs. Azrieal/Dixie - ***
Cabana/McGuinness - ***
Gibson/Tiger - ***3/4
Whitmer/Jacobs vs. Strong/Evans - ****1/4
Joe/Lethal - ****
Punk/Rave - ***1/2
Aries/Shelley - ****
Joe/Lethal vs. Rotts - ***3/4

Best ROH show ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**watts63** · 01-05-2007, 07:43 PM

Pro Wrestling NOAH 1/22/2006

Kentaro Shiga & Mitsuo Momota vs. Kishin Kawabata & Haruka Eigen: DUD (After 5 minutes, I just skip it).

Takuma Sano, Yoshinobu Kanemaru & Dakota vs. Akitoshi Saito, Masao Inoue & Tsutomu Hirayanagi: **

Yoshinari Ogawa & Shiro Koshinaka vs. Tamon Honda & Daisuke Ikeda: **

Scorpio, Minoru Suzuki & SUWA vs. Takeshi Morishima, Mohammed Yone & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi: ***1/4

Mitsuharu Misawa, Takashi Sugiura & Mushiking Terry vs. Kensuke Sasaki, Katsuhiko Nakajima & Mushiking Joker: ***3/4

Takeshi Rikio & Akebono vs. Kenta Kobashi & Junji Izumida: ***1/4

KENTA vs. Naomichi Marufuji: ****1/4

Jun Akiyama vs. Akira Taue: ***3/4

**-Mystery-** · 01-05-2007, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPaiMei

THE BITTER END

Oh boy, this ain't gonna be pretty.

Christopher Daniels vs. Matt Cross - Once again, Gabe gets mucho credit from me for booking the perfect opener, the crowd was totally into it and loved Cross's innovative dodgy stuff. Cross should be a great addition to the midcard and is a perfect showcase guy for the four ways. Daniels, as always, was great and showed why every night you can expect at least a good match from him. I don't care what anyone says, the man can tell a great story, DOES have charisma, and is constantly making newcomers look good. Very good match, and a great post match angle with the Kings that made them uber-heels, though the crowd was dead by their match anyway. ***

And then, it all goes downhill. Cornette comes out with Hagadorn, and books the now famous ridiculous rules for the FWH. This doesn't work for ROH crowds, none of them beleive those rules will actually stick. Konnan come out and they do the immigration argument, which means nothing to the majorly white, suburban, northeast crowd. It all leads to Hagadorn vs. Reyes, which was a squash but not the kind the crowd would have liked. *

BJ Whitmer vs. Colt Cabana vs. Pelle Primeu vs. Tank Toland - Funny four corner with Pelle being an absolute whipping boy, Colt being hilarious, and thats about it. Pelle pins Toland, who could be a great fit in Sweeney's stable. **1/4

Bryan Danielson and Jimmy Rave vs. Nigel McGuinness and Samoa Joe - Old school tag with Dragon and Rave doing the cheap heel tactics, before finally breaking down into the pairings of Rave vs. Nigel and Dragon vs. Joe. Eventually, Nigel pins Jimmy in an above average tag match, and Jimmy flips out after the match at a TP throwing fan. ***1/2

I believe it is at this point that they do the angle where Cornette gets fired. This was very Russoish, it was weird to try and blend kayfabe (Cornette as power figure) and shoot (Cary and Gabe as power figures). Cornette gets fired, all rules are original, yada yada yada.

Davey Richards and Delirious vs. Jay and Mark Briscoe - More tag action with more heels getting a lot of heat, which at this point is pissing the crowd off more than riling them up. Its the Briscoes, so its obviously good, but Davey and Delirious weren't really clicking (fist match together, I believe) and it was not as good as your average Briscoes match. ***1/4

Kings of Wrestling vs. Austin Aries and Roderick Strong - MORE tag matches with MORE heels doing MORE cheap heel tactics. And this can't hold a candle to the New York match. It started hot, but then degenerated into a very slow, uneventful match that while still pretty good, considering the talent involved, was a big letdown. I will note that at this point I despise the show, so I should probably watch this again to reaffirm my position. ***1/4

KENTA vs. Matt Sydal - Overhyped. Very good, but overhyped. I couldn't get into it at all, I never felt as if Matt had a chance, the only two nearfalls were at the very end and it was a squash. Matt's only glimmering hope was the rana at the end, and when I felt like it was gonna pick up, KENTA hit the knee for a nearfall and the G2S for the win. Sydal got his ass kicked, hit a rana, and lost. Much like the AJ-Sydal match from earlier this year, ya, it was good, but not THAT good. ***3/4

Homicide vs. Steve Corino - I am so conflicted by this match. It was supposed to be a brawl, and as that, it was great, about as good as Cide-Cabana IMO. But, for what was one of the most important matches in ROH history, Cide got 0 pop, the crowd wasn't into it, even though it was good. They did better in 2003, but this was still great. But the Konnan thing killed the crowd, no doubt about it. Stuff like Cide no selling Corino's finishers should have whipped the crowd into a frenzy, but instead they sat on their hands. It really would have been better to do this in NYC in 2007, or even main event Boston with this, put KENTA/Richards vs. Aries/Strong on in Philly. But hindsights 20/20, I geuss. I'll try and rate this on match quality, as a brawl, but it could have been so much better ****

I didn't like this one bit. The match quality is pretty good, if unspectacular. But the angles suck, its extremely repititious, and just didn't entertain me. Only buy for the main or if your a Sydal fanatic, otherwise avoid.

Wait...what!?!?! You rate half the show over *** and say avoid the show? Are you on drugs or something?

**Spartanlax** · 01-05-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mystery-

Wait...what!?!?! You rate half the show over *** and say avoid the show? Are you on drugs or something?

It's because of the repitition, I did the same thing with Suffocation. ROH matches tend to follow a similar formula, but most of the time it's varied enough that each match seems new, different, and interesting. On Suffocation for example, despite some really solid matches, three seperate matches followed almost the exact same formula. After watching Shingo vs. Jimmy Rave and then watching Austin Aries vs. Claudio Castagnoli, it was like the same match with different wrestlers, felt like I had seen Aries/Castagnoli already (since Shingo/Rave is earlier on the card).

Although, I also said I enjoyed Suffocation overall because of the good matches, so I'm not sure if 'hate the show, avoid it' is the best advice just because of really poor angles. MrPaiMei, do you think you were a bit harsh with the last statement, since you can skip the angles and stuff, or was it really well-deserved?