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Old 01-04-2014, 04:03 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2014 MOTYC Thread

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I'm not stirring the pot and don't know how to say this without sounding like a giant dickhead, Nervosa, but it's hard to take you seriously when you give **3/4 to a "crap, utter crap" and **** to a "very disappointing" match. Something doesn't work there.
I understand. That is pretty abrasive terminology.

For me, its all about expectations. **** is disappointing for what I expect Tanahashi and Shinsuke to bring, especially in this big of a match.

In the same way, I'm really high on Shibata, and I get mad when he has to stop doing what he does well to cater to a bad style. I also hate seeing him held back from better opponents and matches just so he can have the same match again and again. Compared to what Shibata CAN do, the Goto matches are crap. The action itself is fun, but its flawed action. The level of action in the Goto/Shibata matches would be in the 4 star range if the people in the match actually knew how to make the action mean something. So the **3/4 is as high as it is due to the action itself, with the worst possible way to execute it this side of the HHH/Taker Mania matches. Maybe 'utter waste of time' is a better phrase then 'utter crap' since the moves themselves were fine. (apart from some sloppiness)
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:07 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2014 MOTYC Thread

Nervosa can you go more into why you thought Nak vs. Tana was that good just because I saw a lot of what you didn't like but only a sentence saying "...but still enjoyable" that didn't really match up with essentially say it was really good or great. Like I get it was disappointing for the two guys to you but I don't think that helps me too much here hehe.
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:21 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Ok, cool, yeah, sorry about that. I loved Nakamura's early control. The early, hold-for-hold stuff is the place where you would expect Nakamura to have a huge edge, and he did. It was also good to establish him as the faux 'heel' of the match, and I thought they did that really well.

The legwork, itself, was very good. It seemed like Tanahashi was using his leg-aimed moves as not only a strategy against Nakamura's offense, but also a way to change momentum in his favor. I thought the early cloverleaf was a really smart idea to remind us all that Tanahashi would come back to that hold later...which he did. Everything in Tanahashi's early control built the leg up as a great storytelling device. Sadly, it didn't go anywhere in Shinsuke's comeback, but the workover itself was really good.

they also had Shinsuke go for a top rope, back-facing landslide, which, if I'm not mistaken, was the finish of the 2008 WK match. It ended up being countered, but I thought it was a great callback that fans of the series would recognize.

Speaking of which, the counters in this match were outstanding. The early one in the corner where Tanahashi blocks the vibrating boot, only to have his corner splash ducked so that he is in perfect position for the corner knee to the ribs was awesome.

Also, the aforementioned second rope back facing landslide countered into a sunset flip powerbomb countered into a lungblower is one of the coolest spots I've seen in a while.


Finally, the last cloverleaf was a really awesome stop. If shinsuke had sold his leg, I might have thought it was over at that point. The way it was set up and all the drama while it was locked in was a great nearfall.

There! A whole post of positives!
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:24 PM   #44 (permalink)
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And I used my rep on the other post ha. Right on, thanks.
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:25 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2014 MOTYC Thread

For the record, I thought Naito/Okada was just... good. I say "just", because ***1/2 seems very low for two guys who wrestled a five star match just 22 months ago. I honestly enjoyed Kojima/Conway, Makabe/Fale, Ibushi/Devitt, Goto/Shibata and Tanahashi/Nakamura more.
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:30 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2014 MOTYC Thread

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For the record, I thought Naito/Okada was just... good. I say "just", because ***1/2 seems very low for two guys who wrestled a five star match just 22 months ago. I honestly enjoyed Kojima/Conway, Makabe/Fale, Ibushi/Devitt, Goto/Shibata and Tanahashi/Nakamura more.
The fact that its close is a shame in of itself. Just shows how much Naito has fallen, in my opinion.

I only gave it a quarter star more than you. I enjoyed Tanahashi/Nakamura and Makabe/Fale more, and I would not have expected that going in.

Kojima/Conway was a shock in how truly enjoyable it was. I didn't like it more than Okada/Naito, but I sure liked it a lot.

Didn't enjoy the other two as much as you, but I certainly agree that Naito/Okada was a huge huge disappointment. I almost want to go watch that match from 22 months ago to cheer myself up.
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:40 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2014 MOTYC Thread

SPOILERS AHEAD. Couldn't figure out how to spoiler tag it.

Goto vs. Shibata - ****
This match drew me in more than most of this style. I really dug the intensity throughout the match and I was on the edge of my seat. The one counts are usually really frustrating to me, but I didn't mind them at all here. There was a clothesline exchange mid match that was totally worthy. I like how Goto had to practically kill Shibata to win. Overall great.

Okada vs. Naito - ****
Apparently I'm in the minority on this one. I really bought Naito as a contender for the belt going in, so I thought he could get the win with his sneaky rollups in the second half of the match. Naito was really on point in this match and his comebacks were great. I don't think Okada was bad by any means. Every time he sets up the Rainmaker things get so much more dramatic since people very rarely kick out of it. Lots of good counter exchanges, especially at the end. There was one sequence when Naito was attempting his corner dropkick early in the match that I thought was really great. I dug the finish as well. Fitting end. Also really enjoyed Naito getting frustrated and choking the shit out of Okada in the corner.

Tanahashi vs. Nakamura - ****1/4
This is a lower end ****1/4 for me, but there was just enough to put it into that spectrum. Shinsuke's kicks were brutal early on. One made me think Tana was going to throw up. This match was filled with great counters since they know each other so well. Never dragged. All of Shinsuke was really on point and I thought he would win for sure after he kicked out of the first High Fly Flow. The finish was anti climactic for me. That was probably just because I didn't want Tanahashi to win. Either way the last 5 minutes or so up to that point were really dramatic. They didn't overkill with nearfalls at all. Liked Tanahashi selling his stomach a lot after Shinsuke kicked out of the first High Fly Flow.
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:16 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2014 MOTYC Thread

just getting back into wrestling, so needing to follow this thread.
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Old 01-05-2014, 03:34 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2014 MOTYC Thread

My ongoing MOTYC list as of 21/7:

****1/2
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Shinsuke Nakamura (NJPW New Beginning in Hiroshima, 9/2)
Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn (WWE NXT Arrival, 27/2)
Taiji Ishimori vs. Daisuke Harada (NOAH Great Voyage, 8/3)
Shingo Takagi & Akira Tozawa vs. T-Hawk & Eita (Dragon Gate, 20/7)

****1/4
Masato Yoshino vs. Masaaki Mochizuki (Dragon Gate, 16/1)
Tomohiro Ishii vs. Tetsuya Naito (NJPW New Beginning in Osaka, 11/2)
Cesaro vs. John Cena (WWE Raw, 17/2)
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family (WWE Elimination Chamber, 23/2)
Ricochet vs. Uhaa Nation (Dragon Gate, 6/3)
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Shinsuke Nakamura (NJPW Invasion Attack, 6/4)
Daniel Bryan vs. Triple-H (WWE Wrestlemania XXX, 6/4)
Young Bucks vs. RedDRagon (ROH / NJPW War Of The Worlds, 17/5)
Tomohiro Ishii vs. Kota Ibushi (NJPW, 25/5)
Best of the Super Junior Final (NJPW, 8/6)

****
Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 8, 4/1)
Kazuchika Okada, Shinsuke Nakamura, Tomohiro Ishii & YOSHI-HASHI vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi, Hirooki Goto, Tetsuya Naito & Captain New Japan (NJPW New Year Dash, 5/1)
Masaaki Mochizuki vs. T-Hawk (Dragon Gate, 12/1)
Voldaor Jr. vs. Mascara Dorada (NJPW, 19/1)
Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt (WWE Royal Rumble, 26/1)
Kazuchika Okada, Shinsuke Nakamura & Tomohiro Ishii vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi, Hirooki Goto & Tetsuya Naito (NJPW, 2/2)
Jimmyz vs. Mad Blanky (Elimination, Dragon Gate, 6/2)
Kazuchika Okada vs. Hirooki Goto (NJPW New Beginning in Osaka, 11/2)
Masato Yoshino vs. Ricochet (Dragon Gate, 2/3)
Kazuchika Okada vs. Kota Ibushi (NJPW 42nd Anniversary, 6/3)
Yuji Nagata vs. Takashi Sugiura (NOAH Great Voyage, 8/3)
HARASHIMA vs. KUDO (DDT, 21/3)
Tomohiro Ishii vs. Tetsuya Naito (NJPW Invasion Attack, 6/4)
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family (WWE Main Event, 8/4)
Suwama vs. Takao Omori (AJPW, 13/4)
Biff Busick vs. Timothy Thatcher (Beyond Wrestling, 13/4)
T-Hawk, Eita & Flamita vs. Shingo Takagi, Ricochet & Akira Tozawa (Captain's Fall, Dragon Gate, 27/4)
KUDO vs. Akito (DDT Max Bump, 29/4)
The Shield vs. Evolution (WWE Extreme Rules, 4/5)
Ricochet vs. Yamato (Dragon Gate Dead Or Alive, 5/5)
Young Bucks vs. Forever Hooligans vs. Time Splitters (ROH / NJPW Global Wars, 10/5)
Chaos vs. Bullet Club (NJPW, 30/5)
Isami Kodaka & Yuko Miyamoto vs. Kohei Sato & Shuji Ishikawa (BJW, 31/5)
Yuji Nagata & Daisuke Sekimoto vs. Yoshihiro Takayama & Takashi Sugiura (NOAH, 13/6)
Young Bucks vs. Time Splitters (NJPW Dominion, 21/6)
Kota Ibushi vs. Ricochet (NJPW Dominion, 21/6)
Cesaro vs. Kane vs. Sheamus vs. Bray Wyatt vs. John Cena vs. Randy Orton vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. Roman Reigns (Ladder, WWE Money In The Bank, 29/6)
Daisuke Sekimoto vs. Shinobu (BJW, 30/6)

***3/4
Kotaro Suzuki & Atsushi Aoki vs. Keisuke Ishii & Shigehiro Irie (AJPW, 3/1)
Hirooki Goto vs. Katsuyori Shibata (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 8, 4/1)
Prince Devitt vs. Kota Ibushi (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 8, 4/1)
Kazuchika Okada vs. Tetsuya Naito (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 8, 4/1)
Kota Ibushi & Kenny Omega vs. Isami Kodaka & Yuko Miyamoto vs. Konosuke Takeshita & Tetsuya Endo (DDT Sweet Dreams, 26/1)
Titan vs. Virus (CMLL, 28/1)
The Shield vs. Daniel Bryan, Sheamus & Rey Mysterio (WWE SmackDown, 31/1)
Prince Devitt, Bad Luck Fale & Young Bucks vs. Togi Makabe, Ryusuke Taguchi & Time Splitters (NJPW, 2/2)
Shingo Takagi, Akira Tozawa & Uhaa Nation vs. Dragon Kid, K-Ness & Super Shisa (Dragon Gate, 6/2)
Kazuchika Okada & YOSHI-HASHI vs. Hirooki Goto & Katsuyori Shibata (NJPW New Beginning in Hiroshima, 9/2)
HARASHIMA vs. Masa Takanashi (DDT, 23/2)
Kohei Sato & Shuji Ishikawa vs. Shinya Ishikawa & Shinobu (BJW, 2/3)
Tbe Shield vs. The Wyatt Family (WWE Raw, 3/3)
Tomohiro Ishii vs. Tetsuya Naito (NJPW, 15/3)
Shingo Takagi vs. T-Hawk (Dragon Gate, 29/3)
Shinsuke Nakamura, Tomohiro Ishii, Yujiro Takahashi & YOSHI-HASHI vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi, Tetsuya Naito, Togi Makabe & Tomoaki Honma (NJPW, 3/4)
Hiroshi Tanahashi, Tetsuya Naito & KUSHIDA vs. Kazuchika Okada, Shinsuke Nakamura & Tomohiro Ishii (NJPW Wrestling World, 13/4)
Tomohiro Ishii vs. Tomoaki Honma (NJPW Dontaku, 3/5)
Kazuchika Okada vs. AJ Styles (NJPW Dontaku, 3/5)
Yuji Hino & HIROKI vs. Yasufumi Nakanoue & Seiki Yoshioka (W-1, 4/5)
KAI vs. Manabu Soya (W-1, 4/5)
Flamita vs. Jimmy Susumu (Dragon Gate Dead Or Alive, 5/5)
Shinji Ishikawa vs. Daisuke Sekimoto (BJW Endless Survivor, 5/5)
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family (WWE Raw, 5/5)
Tetsuya Naito vs. Bad Luck Fale (NJPW, 25/5)
Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze (NXT Take Over, 29/5)
Shinya Ishikawa vs. Shiori Asahi (BJW, 31/5)
Cesaro vs. Sheamus (WWE Payback, 1/6)
Bullet Club vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi, Tetsuya Naito, Tomoaki Honma, Manabu Nakanishi & Captain New Japan (NJPW, 3/6)
Kenny Omega vs. El Desperado (NJPW, 3/6)
Kazuchika Okada, Shinsuke Nakamura & YOSHI-HASHI vs. Bad Luck Fale, Tama Tonga & Yujiro Takahashi (NJPW, 6/6)
Katsuyori Shibata & Hirooki Goto vs. Yuji Nagata & Tomoaki Honma (NJPW Dominion, 21/6)
Shinya Ishikawa vs. Shuji Ishikawa (BJW, 30/6)
Koji Kanemoto & Minoru Tanaka vs. Davey Richards & Eddie Edwards (Wrestle-1, 6/7)
Naruki Doi, Cyber Kong & Kzy vs. Genki Horiguchi HAGeeMee, Jimmy Susumu & Mr Kyu Kyu Naoki Tanazaki Toyonaka Dolphin (Dragon Gate, 20/7)
Kazuchika Okada vs. AJ Styles (NJPW, 21/7)
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Old 01-05-2014, 09:57 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: The 2014 MOTYC Thread

Wrestle Kingdom 8
-Shibata vs Goto ***1/2
-Devitt vs Ibushi ***1/2
-Okada vs Naito ***3/4
-Nakamura vs Tanahashi ***3/4
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TOP 5 MATCHES 2014

1. NEVER Openweight Championship Match: Tetsuya Naito (c) vs Tomohiro Ishii - NJPW The New Beginning In Osaka 11/02
2. Open The Twin Gate Unified Tag Team Championship Match: Shingo Takagi & Akira Tozawa (c) vs T-Hawk & Eita - Dragon Gate Kobe Pro-Wrestling Festival 20/07
3. Kazuchika Okada, Shinsuke Nakamura & Tomohiro Ishii vs Hirooki Goto, Hiroshi Tanahashi & Tetsuya Naito - NJPW Road To The New Beginning 2/02
4. Bray Wyatt, Erick Rowan & Luke Harper vs Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose & Seth Rollins - WWE Elimination Chamber 23/02
5. GHC Heavyweight Championship Match: Yuji Nagata (c) vs Naomichi Marufuji - NOAH Great Voyage In Tokyo Vol. 2 5/07

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