Dean Ambrose Pre-Debut Discussion Thread - Page 217 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:18 PM   #2161 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dean Ambrose Pre-Debut Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DualShock View Post
The difference is that I can be a fan of Vader before, during and after his WWE run, but it's stupid for me to say that he has changed WWE during his run and that's what Ambrose marks do in this forum. The GOAT, the future, someone who will change the WWE and even this business.
The problem in this forum is not that someone is a Dean Ambrose fan, the problem is that bullshit people wrote where they guarantee that he will be the star of the company.

Who knows, maybe he will have a WWE career like CM Punk but maybe he will end like Low Ki.

Of course the guys like Vader, Race and Rhodes had still fans after their terrible WWE careers, my point was that they never accomplished things in WWE they accomplished in WCW and NWA and that there is no guarantee that you will make it in WWE because you made it somewhere else
1. No one's claiming he's "changed the WWE" during his run. Because he hasn't had a run. We're excited, not exempt from the linear passage of time.
2. Even if he doesn't make it in the WWE, it's not irrational to blame that on the visibly creatively vacuous megacorporation rather than Ambrose himself, or to content ourselves with whatever success he achieves.
3. Entertaining any notion of stifling your fandom because he'll only be misused before he's even debuted is so stupidly presumptive. Optimism might be misguided, but so is genuine human love, and that's still a nice thing generally.
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:31 PM   #2162 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dean Ambrose Pre-Debut Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Stanford View Post
You should probably read his post a couple more times.
Here we go
Quote:
So what if Ambrose hasn't debuted yet? You realize not being on the main roster doesn't mean you're in a vacuum of inactivity, right? PoisonMouse (who is a total saint btw) just posted a list of stuff that is better than the majority of what we see on TV, yet we're not allowed to be excited about it because it's not on TV? Well, whatever. FUCK TV. If Ambrose never gets on TV and remains in FCW forever, I will be damn pleased about the greatness he produces there.

That means TankOfRate complains that some people think it's weird to post in the WWE section about a wrestler who hasn't debuted in WWE?
I agree with him that there are many things more exciting than some crap we see on WWE program.
But if you see something exciting in FCW post it in the FCW section. Aries is a better champ? Post it in the TNA section, Rock & Austin > current roster? Post it in the classic wrestling section.
Don't spam in the WWE section how somebody who hasn't achieved anything in WWE that he will save WWE when not even The Rock and Brock Lesnar were not able to save WWE and start a new wrestling boom. Don't spam in the WWE sections how the 1000th Raw episode sucked because Ambrose hasn't debuted yet because that sounds just stupid as WCW lost the Monday Night Wars because Impact had better ratings.
I have nothing against that he produces greatness in FCW, but as long as he stays in FCW I don't know why the praise belongs in the WWE section.
I know FCW ist the development territory of WWE but we have a section for that.

Basically, TankOfRate complains that some people won't let him be a wrestlingfan who enjoys wrestling and let him post in the wrong section how he enjoys his favourite wrestler and post it in the WWE section who isn't even on the WWE roster.
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:34 PM   #2163 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dean Ambrose Pre-Debut Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DualShock View Post
Here we go


That means TankOfRate complains that some people think it's weird to post in the WWE section about a wrestler who hasn't debuted in WWE?
I agree with him that there are many things more exciting than some crap we see on WWE program.
But if you see something exciting in FCW post it in the FCW section. Aries is a better champ? Post it in the TNA section, Rock & Austin > current roster? Post it in the classic wrestling section.
Don't spam in the WWE section how somebody who hasn't achieved anything in WWE that he will save WWE when not even The Rock and Brock Lesnar were not able to save WWE and start a new wrestling boom. Don't spam in the WWE sections how the 1000th Raw episode sucked because Ambrose hasn't debuted yet because that sounds just stupid as WCW lost the Monday Night Wars because Impact had better ratings.
I have nothing against that he produces greatness in FCW, but as long as he stays in FCW I don't know why the praise belongs in the WWE section.
I know FCW ist the development territory of WWE but we have a section for that.

Basically, TankOfRate complains that some people won't let him be a wrestlingfan who enjoys wrestling and let him post in the wrong section how he enjoys his favourite wrestler and post it in the WWE section who isn't even on the WWE roster.
This is in the FCW section
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:37 PM   #2164 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dean Ambrose Pre-Debut Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DualShock View Post
Here we go


That means TankOfRate complains that some people think it's weird to post in the WWE section about a wrestler who hasn't debuted in WWE?
I agree with him that there are many things more exciting than some crap we see on WWE program.
But if you see something exciting in FCW post it in the FCW section. Aries is a better champ? Post it in the TNA section, Rock & Austin > current roster? Post it in the classic wrestling section.
Don't spam in the WWE section how somebody who hasn't achieved anything in WWE that he will save WWE when not even The Rock and Brock Lesnar were not able to save WWE and start a new wrestling boom. Don't spam in the WWE sections how the 1000th Raw episode sucked because Ambrose hasn't debuted yet because that sounds just stupid as WCW lost the Monday Night Wars because Impact had better ratings.
I have nothing against that he produces greatness in FCW, but as long as he stays in FCW I don't know why the praise belongs in the WWE section.
I know FCW ist the development territory of WWE but we have a section for that.

Basically, TankOfRate complains that some people won't let him be a wrestlingfan who enjoys wrestling and let him post in the wrong section how he enjoys his favourite wrestler and post it in the WWE section who isn't even on the WWE roster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat Analyst View Post
This is in the FCW section
This is maybe my favourite exchange in this forum's history.
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:25 PM   #2165 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dean Ambrose Pre-Debut Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat Analyst View Post
This is in the FCW section
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Hands View Post
This is maybe my favourite exchange in this forum's history.
LMFAO owned... hahahaha
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:22 PM   #2166 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dean Ambrose Pre-Debut Discussion Thread

Since everyone is apperently coming out of nowhere to this forum and suddenly giving their opinions of Ambrose, I might as well join in. Here are my views on Ambrose:

In Ring Ability: Ambrose is, in my opinion, is a pretty good in ring worker. But when talking terms of just pure in ring ability, he's not great. But he makes up for that gap in-between by 1) great wrestling psychology and 2) his ability to sell moves. Ambrose is not a spot monkey. He's not the best technician but still pretty good. He's basically a brawler w/ a little bit technical make up to him as well. What makes some of Ambrose's matches so memorable is his storytelling (going back to psychology) and and his ability to make his opponents look better.

Promo Ability: Ambrose is the best mic worker in currently in WWE Developmental obviously. From what I've seen from his few dark match promos, he doesn't too bad in a WWE environment either. What I love about Ambrose's promos is he sounds confident and composed delivering them. His promos never sound forced. He knows how to get whatever point he is making across and he knows how to get the crowd engaged, whether he's drawing heat or just making sure that they pat attention.

Character: Ambrose has been compared from everyone to Piper, Pillman, Mankind, and even The Joker (Heath Ledger version). Actually, I wouldn't mind if he debuted w/ a Joker gimmick (which is essentially the same gimmick he plays right now, except the w/ the facepaint). He plays the psychotic character very well, but he plays it in a way that's still believeable in real life.

Hopes For His Debut: WWE was going to have him debut vs. a legend in Mick Foley, so there shouldn't be a question of whether or not WWE thinks highly of him. I don't agree w/ people saying that he should get involved w/ guys like Cena, Punk, Bryan, AJ. The guy is 26 years old. There is no need to push him to the top of the card. I hope Ambrose debuts in an impactful way w/o accomplishing too much too soon. Here are some of my ideas:

1. Have him debut as a local jobber from Cincinnati (his real home town) and beat Santino for the US title on his his first night. I mean Santino has held the title for about 4-5 months. He either beats jobbers or gets jobbed. So, giving the title to a guy who hasn't even debuted yet isn't exactly a downgrade. Plus, it would kind of be cruel irony since it's the same way Santino debuted. Also, it would give Ambrose a good spot on TV every week and in the mid card.

2. Feud w/ Kane. Matches wouldn't be classics but the storytelling would be great.

3. An idea when to debut Ambrose, not one how. Start airing vignettes next week on Raw and continue doing that until the Raw on Sept. 3 in Chicago. It would be cool to see him debut in Chicago b/c of the great (and smarky) crowd.

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I'll be honest w/ everyone. I knew the name Dean Ambrose before I knew the name Jon Moxley. He won me over w/ his work in FCW. I've gone back and seen some of his work in the Indies, but most of what I've seen is from FCW. So don't call me an "Indy" mark. Fact is that Ambrose has all of the potential to be a big star. But potential will only get his foot in the door. Ambrose has to do the rest himself.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:32 PM   #2167 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dean Ambrose Pre-Debut Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Davion McCool View Post
Anyway, the only two wrestlers to make it to the WWE main roster in recent years with more buzz behind them than Dean Ambrose are CM Punk and Bryan Danielson, and they are doing alright, aren't they?
That's a little much. Punk and Danielson both had a pretty significant amount of work in the indies before WWE brought them in. Both worked dark matches (I saw Punk work a dark match in June of 05) and were then brought in the fold. Mox had a cup of coffee in CZW and then went to FCW where he's been since.

I'm not taking away from the guy, as I think he's going to be big in a year or two. But to compare him to either Punk or Danielson is a disservice to both.

Also, I'm hoping he does a light tubes death match.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:57 PM   #2168 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dean Ambrose Pre-Debut Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by dele View Post
That's a little much. Punk and Danielson both had a pretty significant amount of work in the indies before WWE brought them in. Both worked dark matches (I saw Punk work a dark match in June of 05) and were then brought in the fold. Mox had a cup of coffee in CZW and then went to FCW where he's been since.

I'm not taking away from the guy, as I think he's going to be big in a year or two. But to compare him to either Punk or Danielson is a disservice to both.

Also, I'm hoping he does a light tubes death match.
Like I said, they both had more buzz behind them before they moved to WWE, and rightly so. But after them, the nearest in recent years has to be Jon Moxley, purely in terms of buzz. It's not often that you get a general consensus that all the WWE has to do is not fuck up and let an Indie guy be himself and you have a guaranteed star. I'd agree that Moxley was no-where near on Danielson or Punk's level when he made the move to WWE, but honestly, those two are as big as its gotten in the current era imo, though for every different reasons.

The difference between Mox and Punk/Danielson, is that while the former two worked for years on end in the indies, at one point both raising ROH to new levels off their back, Moxley's rise has been pretty meteoric. He could'n't have made the transition from nobody to the hottest prospect in WWE's developmental much faster. In many ways he is still an unknown quantity, which I think adds to the appeal. Punk and Bryan could have both retired on their pre-WWE careers and gone down as Indie legends. So far all Moxley/Ambrose has done is turn some heads. But holy fuck has he turned them heads. Can you remember this much hype about an indie guy coming through since we got Danielson and Punk both in the WWE?
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Old 07-29-2012, 01:58 AM   #2169 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dean Ambrose Pre-Debut Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Davion McCool View Post
Like I said, they both had more buzz behind them before they moved to WWE, and rightly so. But after them, the nearest in recent years has to be Jon Moxley, purely in terms of buzz. It's not often that you get a general consensus that all the WWE has to do is not fuck up and let an Indie guy be himself and you have a guaranteed star. I'd agree that Moxley was no-where near on Danielson or Punk's level when he made the move to WWE, but honestly, those two are as big as its gotten in the current era imo, though for every different reasons.

The difference between Mox and Punk/Danielson, is that while the former two worked for years on end in the indies, at one point both raising ROH to new levels off their back, Moxley's rise has been pretty meteoric. He could'n't have made the transition from nobody to the hottest prospect in WWE's developmental much faster. In many ways he is still an unknown quantity, which I think adds to the appeal. Punk and Bryan could have both retired on their pre-WWE careers and gone down as Indie legends. So far all Moxley/Ambrose has done is turn some heads. But holy fuck has he turned them heads. Can you remember this much hype about an indie guy coming through since we got Danielson and Punk both in the WWE?
I agree with everything you said. On this note, are you surprised how "small" of an impact Chris Hero has made in FCW. I mean man'o'man that guy was just as hyped as Punk and Bryan at one point on the indy scene. That guy along with Punk, Bryan, Aries, McGuiness, and Joe was one of the Kings of the indy scene.
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Old 07-29-2012, 03:11 AM   #2170 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dean Ambrose Pre-Debut Discussion Thread

I had no clue who Moxley was until his first promo on FCW. I knew Punk, Danielson, Joe, Hero, Claudio, Tyler, all before they were signed with WWE or TNA. ROH is a much more talked about than CZW or Dragon Gate USA, so that's a big reason why.

I don't think Moxley\Ambrose will have such a hard time in WWE because his wrestling style is suited to WWE, and he can't be branded as "King of the Indies" like Punk and Danielson.

Last edited by AntMan : 07-29-2012 at 03:17 AM.
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