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Can't take this midget shit seriously!

26K views 214 replies 96 participants last post by  Shepard 
#1 ·
Itami and Balor, two short dudes who look like college geeks completely burying Ascension and standing tall over their beaten bodies? Where is the believability? Pro-wrestling is all about believability. Entire beat down looked so awkward and phony out there, with Konnor and Viktor trying to sell those punches. Maybe this midget shit gets over in Japan(even this is debatable considering the current pathetic state of Jap wrestling scene, and Bob Sapp being a huge star with nothing but his looks) but WWE is not Japan in anyway, its the land of giants. This will only get laughed at, if mainstream american fans ever saw it.

Its WRESTLING for fuck sake, its a spectacle sport, looks absolutely DOES matter. Why are we even expected to appreciate some average looking dudes, that you can bump into walking down on the streets fight against each other? I don't watch WWE for that, that's not the point of a sport like wrestling. Midgets lack believability because of their size, not their fault and I understand them getting these opportunities on top, but as a fan I'm not willing to sacrifice the fun of watching a spectacle sport like wrestling just so these people can main event. They just don't belong in that spot.

WWE needs to completely move away from this midgets-standing-tall-in-the-main-event phase and go back to their roots, when wrestling was all about charismatic larger than life figures.

Am I the only one who feels this way?
 
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#4 ·
I get your gripe, but WWE just needs a better way of presenting the physicality.

Titus O'Neil vs Sami Zayn is logic 101. First time, Titus just out powered Zayn at every corner and won. Second time, Titus did the same, but Zayn had to really dig down deep and use his last bit of energy to hit two quick moves and catch him off his game to win the match. That's believable.

Hideo and Finn beating down The Ascension with ease could be explained by Viktor and Konnor being unprepared, but their actual match will need some better layers to it to make The Ascension believably vulnerable to two guys half their size. Inexperience? Lack of speed? It has to tie into the match and commentary has to be on point about it.

OP is not a troll, he raises a valid issue. Spider-Man vs The Hulk doesn't make sense unless you explain both of their power sets, either. Neither does Batman vs Superman.
 
#6 ·

Agreed, it's all about presentation. Small guys should not dominate the big guys, they should find weaknesses and exploit them, or take them off their feet. Balor and Itami just kicking the Ascension and keeping them down for several minutes is in no way believable. It's actually insulting to our intelligence, especially since these are the two guys who dominated the Tag Team division for so long. It indirectly buries a large portion of the roster by having two new small guys lay them out after the whole Tag Team scene couldn't do it over the course of a year.
 
#8 ·
blame that idiot Triple H and the failed Performance Center cause didn't created one single star so WWE needs to sign from the indyz. If i want to watch a boring submission match with no storytelling then I would watch ROH or some other bingo hall indy promotion. Shane needs to return and Triple H needs to GTFO ASAP!!!
 
#109 ·
That and they're both legitimate shooters. Kenta trains with Taiyo Sun Nakahara for his fights and he trains with other fighters. Devitt did that same thing with catch wrestling. He's a legitimate threat.
 
#11 ·
Yeah, it was a really awkward segment. I get that they wanted Balor to come in and make an impact but overpowering Ascension like that was pretty stupid, especially because kayfabe nobody knows who this guy is, it isn't like Kenta who was brought in and hyped up as a Japanese legend and so looked credible fending off Ascension at Takeover 2.

NXT has been vanilla midget land anyway since Wyatt was called up and especially since the Network launched, I feel like a lot of what happens these days is aimed at appeasing retarded indy fans to attract Network subs. Makes sense from a business POV but hopefully it doesn't transfer to the main roster at any point in the future because this shit is pretty lame TBH.
 
#129 · (Edited)
No it isn't. Do you think everyone would just let it slide if Rey Mysterio ran to the ring and made The Undertaker his bitch on his debut? It's unacceptable. I don't care how popular these guys were on the indies, it doesn't excuse them DOMINATING two huge men who ran the place for over a year. Methodically beat them? Sure, no one has a problem with that, but they came out, kicked the shit out of them for several minutes, and stood over them like they were nothing. Like someone said on the last page: that was the time to do a clothesline spot and knock them out of the ring or do some rope diving moves and have the Ascension retreat. Instead, they just looked like complete bitches and it's insulting to the viewer's intelligence.
Agreed with all the points you've both made in this thread. Too many to quote.

I'm a fan of the smaller guys and diverse sizes, but don't insult my intelligence in the process. The two of you covered much of what I would've posted.
 
#15 ·
I said this in another thread but it applies here as well.

Balor and Itami steamrolling the Ascension fits the theme of WWE the past few years. Skill always supersedes size (It is/was shown with Bryan and Punk routinely), and the only time size wins is when it's a drastic difference like Big Show vs Bryan (Bryan has never pinned him.. yet), or when the bigger guy has more skill than the smaller guy (any of Brock's matches). Other than that WWE's new theme is skill > size.

Wrestlers are not superheroes, and believability has no basis in a scripted sport, at least when it comes to size. In real life skill always prevails if it's a big lumbering opponent vs a skilled small opponent, and in this case it was just that. The Ascension are powerful brutes with little intelligence behind their attacks, and Balor and Itami are bringing the talent and strategy to put them in their place.
 
#18 ·
I agree, but the point of my post was merely saying commentary needs to explain the skill/size difference instead of just assuming the viewer is keenly aware of both of the wrestler's careers. NXT is a bit different, because most of it's fan base are hardcore fans who know Devitt and Kenta's resume, but when they get to the main roster, it's an entirely different beast that will need proper education to the casual fan.

Because to them, all they see is the size difference. The tale of the tape graphic before bigger matches would help drastically if you see "YEARS PRO" be in favor of the smaller guy. I see this in MMA all the time, and as a casual fan of that sport, it helps me a fuck ton understand what I'm looking at here. Granted, MMA typically doesn't mix and match weight classes, so in pro wrestling, it's doubly important.

So it just goes back to the presentation of the match in question and the story told in the ring and from the announce booth.
 
#21 ·
I think it depends on how you look at it. That beatdown took full advantage of Itami and Balor's momentum, combined with their speed, striking, and skill advantages, so in a sense it was "believable" under the umbrella of WWE's current theme.

I agree, but the point of my post was merely saying commentary needs to explain the skill/size difference instead of just assuming the viewer is keenly aware of both of the wrestler's careers. NXT is a bit different, because most of it's fan base are hardcore fans who know Devitt and Kenta's resume, but when they get to the main roster, it's an entirely different beast that will need proper education to the casual fan.

Because to them, all they see is the size difference. The tale of the tape graphic before bigger matches would help drastically if you see "YEARS PRO" be in favor of the smaller guy. I see this in MMA all the time, and as a casual fan of that sport, it helps me a fuck ton understand what I'm looking at here. Granted, MMA typically doesn't mix and match weight classes, so in pro wrestling, it's doubly important.

So it just goes back to the presentation of the match in question and the story told in the ring and from the announce booth.
This I completely agree with, although Albert did partially hype up Balor as a big deal. But yes, they need to hype up their ribboned pasts, and that they made a career out of besting larger men than them based on how skilled, tough, and tenacious they are.

Yes, casuals watching will be initially confused, but at the same time, they will be very intrigued, as to how it's possible. This, in turn will make them tune in the following week to find out, and/or in some cases research Balor. It's a textbook way to create interest.
 
#17 ·
OP makes a reasonable point. If a smaller guy is going to beat the bigger one, there has to be an angle on it, not just a beatdown.

They are screwing up with Itami's debut so far. Balor is doing better. The whole Ascension "feud" has managed to devalue both Itami and The Ascension
 
#25 ·
That's also valid, but ignoring all logic prevents suspending it in the first place. I'm a huge Jackie Moore fan (hence the avatar), but her winning the Crusierweight title was just... not believable. The same goes with Hornswaggle winning it or David Arquette winning the WCW title. Counter this when Vince McMahon was WWF champion or ECW champion (GANGSTA VINCE!) and it's a bit easier to swallow given his character. Still stupid, but I was able to buy into it better given the stories involved.
 
#27 ·
Wrestlers are not superheroes, believability has no basis in a scripted sport
fpalm so what exactly does? the number of moves you got? or the number of flips you can do in the ring?


In real life skill always prevails if it's a big lumbering opponent vs a skilled small opponent
Konnor and Viktor are not presented as "big lumbering opponents", no big guy ever was unless they are comedic acts. They are supposed to equally skilled, they are all trained wrestlers.

And why is it always "skilled small opponent"? so a big opponent can't have skills in combat, a "skilled big opponent" can't exist in the real word? Isn't wrestling suppose to work under that basis?
 
#30 ·
fpalm so what exactly does? the number of moves you got? or the number of flips you can do in the ring?
I wouldn't say moves, as my main point, but sure we can use that analogy. The more moves you have, the more angles of attack you can apply in any situation.

Konnor and Viktor are not presented as "big lumbering opponents", no big guy ever was unless they are comedic acts. They are supposed to equally skilled, they are all trained wrestlers.

And why is it always "skilled small opponent"? so a big opponent can't have skills in combat, a "skilled big opponent" can't exist in the real word? Isn't wrestling suppose to work under that basis?
The Ascension have always been booked and described as forces of destruction who use their size and power to overcome their opponent. They are the very description of "all size" opponents. That is where skill comes in. Balor and Itami are being heralded as Legends from Japan due to their skill and presence. Therefore, HHH is booking them as such, and showing WWE-only fans that size is not greater than years of mastered skill, and International dominance.
 
#29 ·
^ The James comparison isn't all that relevant, you've just said yourself that wrestling is a scripted sport. Pushing guys to be illogically dominant just because they were a star in a smaller company is pretty idiotic whichever way you look at it, by all means give them a push but don't just have them come in and steamroll guys that are much larger and have been pushed to be extremely credible for over a year. I thought Itami's debut was a fine illustration of a 'skilled smaller guy', but the Balor debut just wasn't believable IMO, it came across as disingenuous.
 
#33 ·
It is a relevant comparison, wherever you prove you have elite skill is irrelevant (high school/college in the NBA example, or the indies/international in the wrestling example), but the fact that you proved it carries weight into whatever league you move into next. Another example would be someone like Jose Abreu coming over from Cuba and dominating the MLB in his 1st year in the bigs. Same could be said for Yasial Puig. If you prove you have elite talents (which in this case means wrestling ability as well as ability to get over/draw huge crowds) then you should steamroll through opponents that don't come close to matching that level, regardless of size.

This is HHH's new mantra since 2011, and we saw it play out in many of Punk's matches, many of Bryan's, and are now seeing it in NXT where big signings are treated like #1 draft picks ready to roll through everyone in their path. It's fine not to like it, or even agree with it, but it's not difficult to understand.
 
#34 ·
This. Book Balor as having hard strikes through use of commentary, selling and winning matches.

And what do you know, his strikes are hard enough to take down big guys.
 
#36 ·
Punk's booking in 2011/early 2012 story line/match wise was pretty nice. I mean the dude sold so fucking well, and made his opponents look real nice. His matches against Henry are a great example of what I mean. Orton the same as well, selling wise, I mean.

This. Book Balor as having hard strikes through use of commentary, selling and winning matches.

And what do you know, his strikes are hard enough to take down big guys.
I can probably keep up with NXT now. So I'm gonna need to give this guy, Steen, and Itami a good look. Of course I already know about :banderas Zayn.
 
#44 ·
In an ideal world, every wrestler would be the size of Kane or Mark Henry. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world so the WWE has to try their best into tricking us into thinking that all these 5" foot 6' gnomes in NXT are ass-kicking machines. More than once I've written to the WWE suggesting they start a eugenics program wherein women (consensually) pair up with multiples tall men and the resulting children are raised by WWE-owned households and in 20+ years you have a bumper crop of nothing but gargantuan superstars. Oddly, they've never responded to any one of these letters but I keep writing and hoping.
 
#54 ·
In an ideal world, every wrestler would be the size of Kane or Mark Henry. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world so the WWE has to try their best into tricking us into thinking that all these 5" foot 6' gnomes in NXT are ass-kicking machines. More than once I've written to the WWE suggesting they start a eugenics program wherein women (consensually) pair up with multiples tall men and the resulting children are raised by WWE-owned households and in 20+ years you have a bumper crop of nothing but gargantuan superstars. Oddly, they've never responded to any one of these letters but I keep writing and hoping.
 
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