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Old 07-07-2014, 08:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Triple H missing the point of NXT?

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Originally Posted by Chris JeriG.O.A.T View Post
Do you really feel after a year of tv time that either Zayn or Neville have defined characters that can make it on the main roster? How are their characters in any way different from each other? This wouldn't be such a problem if Zayn wasn't minutes away from a debut. Smiling babyface indy guy who skanks to the ring isn't going to get over with the crowds.

Squash matches help guys like Rusev or Big E get their characters over but what did they do for Aiden English's first run? What are they doing for Mojo Rawley? Neither guy are supposed to be unstoppable behemoths. You saw what happened to Rawley when he met a real behemoth, that was a prime opportunity to start a storyline but nope next week back to squashes. Has the hypemans in ring contributions done anything to make you connect with him?

And Im not advocating giving the mic to complete noobs but cutting taped promos and doing promo class in front of 30 of your peers isn't going to help you get comfortable in front of crowds. Big E and Paige are both extremely and very obviously nervous everytime they get on a live mic and I don't remember either cutting a lot of in ring promos, Bo Dallas isn't nervous on a live mic and I remember him cutting a lot of live promos. Charlotte is about to get called up too, if she debuts next week on Raw and has to call AJ out in front of 14000 ppl do you think shes prepared?
Most of those flaws you've mentioned will never be rectified because those people simply don't have what it takes. Neville doesn't have the ability to be anything more than a really good bland wrestler and Big E, Paige and Charlotte are not good promos. There are some things you simply can't change. Charlotte won't become good just because you give her the mic in front of an audience, Curtis Axel has been doing live promos for years and he's still crap, just as an example. Most characters you see on NXT tv are practically finished products and unless there's a huge change in character or WWE really wants to get behind someone and puts enormous resources around them, these characters are the best version of someone that they can get. The majority of the work, both creatively and in the ring, is done off tv. Being on NXT TV is practically the final stage of the creative process and if you think about it, the work they do creatively on NXT is almost always superior than on Raw. NXT handles each character's strengths and weaknesses better than Raw, in most cases, that's why some people fail on the main roster (Emma is a good example of this).
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:24 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Triple H missing the point of NXT?

Triple H did a longass very interesting conference call before Nxt aRRival live show where he talked a lot about NXT goals long term..

Quote:
Next question comes from Bryan fritz.

Bryan: Paul, thanks for taking time today for the calls.

Triple H: Sure thing, Bryan.

Bryan: When you took charge of the developmental system of WWE a few years ago. Can you talk about where it was then, and where it is now and the biggest challengers along the way?

Triple H: Umm..Listen, I never want to say it was in a bad place before. I thought it was in a very good place, but we always used to stuck it off to the sides. I used to say, our developmental was "the worst kept secret on the planet". Everybody knew it was ours, everybody knew what it was, but no one acknowledged it and I never understood why. I felt like, if you want to attract athletes from all over the globe, and this is one of those things that sometimes critics or fans of our business would say "why can't we just simply look around and get wrestlers?". Well, what you wanna attract is the right people, the right charisma, the right personality, the best athletes and then you can train them to get better. You can teach them how to become stars. It's a big process, but to do that, to be as big, as we want them to be in every way, we(developmental) had to grow, our system had to grow. When I first got into this, and Vince was talking about me taking a bigger role in the office, things I looked around the most and I thought we've got all this amazing stuff as a company, we're so big, so global, but we're not setting up for the future? The indy scene is becoming less and less of a factor all the time, it is what it is, and now you've having to create the talents. They are not out there ready to get picked any-more.

You know, you can look at it, and people can make the argument, "Well, WWE just tries to morph them into what they want!", and yeah it's right, we want you to run our playbook. You play for another team, you play their playbook, when you come play for us, we want you to run our playbook because we feel like we know what it is that we can be successful at, right? and people wanna have that debate on whether that's right or wrong, go ahead. But we do expect them to run our playbook. Sometimes its really hard to get guys out of(their routine), they have been doing a playbook for eight years, to get them to come over to ours, it's a tough transition. Sometimes it's lot easier to teach guys from day one, and to get them to follow ours. We look for talent from everywhere, but the fact to me that we just didn't have a system that was equivalent to what we were as a company. The WWE had evolved but the developmental system had stayed what it was...Not bad, but stayed what it was, and we just took it and massively, kinda amped it up and got it up-to speed. I'm very proud of that, the whole system and everybody that's part of it. I can look at it, and I can see the success of guys that we've told, over that process that this might not work out, and then we were able to refocus, re-energize and repackage them and turn them into stars. That's a testament to all of this.

Bryan: What do you think is the next step? What would like to see happen over the next couple of years as it continues to grow?

Triple H: As we talked about a minute ago, for me, we don't need to go global touring, I don't want to lose perspective of the fact that it is developmental, but for these guys and the girls that are here in the system to be able to work(infront of large crowds), when you get up to that level and we're trying to perfect you, (it can be achieved) if they can be working every weekend fridays/saturdays/sundays whatever. Once you get to that level, the only way to get better at this is, to do it infront of fans, make mistakes, and learn from those mistakes, see how crowds react, different in every place you go to and work that. The continuation of that process, is to me kinda the next step, really evolving that aspect. It's a big world out there, with great athletes and potential stars, and its tough process. Sometimes, we can find a guy oversees and wanna work with him but it takes six months to get him to the country to start to train. I mean, its a long, hard process and I hope to improve that. Whether its through satellites, I'm not sure but we're working on all that. We do scan the world looking for talents, that's one of the things we've changed and grown is our recruiting process. To be able to let people know, that WWE is an option.... you know, I think now people get it, if they wanna get into football, this is what you do, if you wanna play soccer, this is how you do it, they know if you wanna be UFC/MMA fighter, they know how to do it. With WWE, it was like "how do you do that? I don't know where to start?" I wanna get that out there to people, "Listen, if you've a interest in this, it's not easy but this is how you go about it". It gives us a much bigger pool to look at and choose, and trust me we're going to weed out the ones that aren't serious, the ones that are here just to get on TV, be famous or use us as a platform to get somewhere else, that becomes see-through. This is a hard business and it takes a lot of work, its hard to get, it can be very rewarding but it takes a lot of effort, and it "weaves itself out" most of the time, of guys who really don't have their heart into it.

Bryan: Thanks, looking forward to the show on thursday night.

Triple H: Thank you very much, hope you enjoy it.

Quote:
Mike: Good to talk to you sir, how are you?

Triple H: Good to talk to you, mike.

Mike: NXT being first on the network is obviously a huge compliment to the NXT system and what you guys have accomplished. Why would WWE need to go forward and do NXT as first Live special, as opposed to waiting for wrestlemania or a special Live event with WWE roster talent? Why NXT first on the network?

Triple H: Well I think, it fit. You know, when we talk about the "past, present and the future" of the WWE, as soon as you turn the network on, you've got the past in the content, the vault, in the library we've put on. The present, with all the stuff that's happening today and we wanted the ability to showcase the future. Fans have been able to see NXT domestically, they have been able to see it on Hulu, and other places on the internet a little bit but not been able to experience it fully. Globally, our(WWE) product is distributed but we've strategically held back on NXT and it almost to a great extent, it has helped us because it has created such a "back-draft" Buzz on the internet, social media and our fanbase in general. Our research showed recently, one of things fans were really excited to see was NXT, 'coz there was so much buzz. We just dropped a few things here and there, with talents coming from RAW and other things, but the Buzz was so huge and unexpected. I take pride in all these kids, that Vince was able to look at it and say "Hey, the first week of the network, I'm gonna give our fanbase something special, to be able to glimpse the future of the business, and I'm wanna do it LIVE and I want to make it big!". That's a testament to everybody here working, from the coaches to staff, to talent that are here, trainers....everybody. Trust me, Vince doesn't let anything happen or show up on the air, that he doesn't think is worth.


Mike: One more question before let someone else jump in. The NXT brand itself has obviously carved a nice little niche for itself in full sail. If the Network is a huge success, How much is that brand going to change? Do you look at it as, Nxt maybe this being a launchpad for able to tour, leave full sail, move to other markets and do TV there?


Triple H: You know, I love the fact that it's at full sail and our fanbase here is really rabid. It's their show, we get different group of people all the time, there's also a large core group...you know, its gotta a little bit of that "ECW vibe". It's something special to that and they are passionate for it. I don't know if you ever got the chance to be at the show live but there's an excitement level there, its like they own it. I'm telling you, even the most jaded old timers come in here, they see it and after the show they come to me asking when can I come back? it's "reinvigorating" to what we do in the business. As for as the touring goes, this absolutely opens up possibilities. Touring and live events are the life blood of what we do. We have to provide opportunity for guys to go out there and perform their craft in-front of thousands, and this allows for that to happen.

As for as TV shows, I don't want to lose sight of the fact that this is only a learning experience. The goal is to get these to the big leagues, and one of the beautiful things about our partnership with Full-sail is that it allows us give these guys a "micro" version of RAW and smackdown every week. One of the best compliments about the performance centre I got, is actually from one of the talents that debutted. A month in, I went to them and I asked if they were able to get past initial nerves yet and that person said to me that, they used to be really nervous, but the day before they were standing on the stage in the afternoon, looking out at the empty arena and said to himself that you know what, if I really break this down, this is what exactly what we do at NXT. The cameras are in the same spot, we're in the same positions, everything is set up the same way and the only exception is, the building is bigger and there are more people. That's a big compliment to what we hoped to achieve with the performance centre, we're really trying to give them the same experience so that when they get up there, they are not over-whelmed. People don't understand, you come from any place else and you walk in the door at Raw/smackdown, you look around and 21 TV trucks are there, it's like an anthill, millions of people going everywhere, doing thousands of things all at once, massive crowd, tough to please at times and all that is over-whelming to talent. This really helps to prepare them in the best way possible. And I don't ever wanna lose perspective of that, it's easy to get wrapped up in the buzz that makes you think "hey people really like that, let's do something more", but I wanna keep the perspective of what it is and what it's meant to be.

Mike: Thank you and its funny, you mentioned ECW, because when I went to full sail and saw one of the tapings, It really reminded me of old ECW arena but also the old RAW shows with the manhattan building. I can't agree with you more, thank you for your time.

Triple H: Thank you.

You can read full interview in this thread...

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/genera...xt-future.html
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Triple H missing the point of NXT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elhijodelbodallas View Post
Most of those flaws you've mentioned will never be rectified because those people simply don't have what it takes. Neville doesn't have the ability to be anything more than a really good bland wrestler and Big E, Paige and Charlotte are not good promos. There are some things you simply can't change. Charlotte won't become good just because you give her the mic in front of an audience, Curtis Axel has been doing live promos for years and he's still crap, just as an example. Most characters you see on NXT tv are practically finished products and unless there's a huge change in character or WWE really wants to get behind someone and puts enormous resources around them, these characters are the best version of someone that they can get. The majority of the work, both creatively and in the ring, is done off tv. Being on NXT TV is practically the final stage of the creative process and if you think about it, the work they do creatively on NXT is almost always superior than on Raw. NXT handles each character's strengths and weaknesses better than Raw, in most cases, that's why some people fail on the main roster (Emma is a good example of this).
That's how it is now but "is that how it should be" is the question. In the interview posted above Triple H says
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple H
Once you get to that level, the only way to get better at this is, to do it infront of fans, make mistakes, and learn from those mistakes, see how crowds react, different in every place you go to and work that.
Now lets take Becky Lench for example, her gimmick has been widely panned by the IWC, now that it's known that ppl hate the gimmick should they just leave her as is so she can fail? What purpose does NXT tv serve if they come from NXT Live events as a finished product and go to the main roster with no significant development in between?

It's too easy to say that a talent can't do something so we just shouldn't try to make them better at it. Yea for every 50 Curtis Axels theres only one Rock, but one Rock is worth 1000 Curtis Axels to the WWE and they have the resources to make that one Rock. You don't even have to look further than Curtis Axels tag team partner to see that ppl can develop. A year ago Ryback had 0 mic skills and 0 personality and all his promos were prerecorded garbage, now Ryback is no SCSA on the mic but hes become good enough to entertain and start building a following. If they'll let somebody like Seth Rollins develop on the mic live on Raw, why not try to let Neville develop on taped tv? If it's good then show it, if its not cut it. And give guys a decent run with it, no 2 strikes and you're out nonsense like Vince just did to Paige.

As for NXT utilizing their strengths and hiding their weakness to put on a better product than Raw and SmackDown it has to be understood that NXT isn't it's own universe, these guys eventually either have to go up or get out. This was never meant to be HHHs personal wrestling promotion.
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Triple H missing the point of NXT?

NXT is just the taped televised shows. There is training that goes on off TV. The best of who performs that training probably are the ones we see on TV each week. So right now, Bull must be being pretty damn impressive if he's getting TV time.

Keep in mind, some stories will flow over to NXT from Raw/Smackdown. The show must have some organized content (where the champ is definitely on, divas champ too). Otherwise it would just be a wrestling variety hour with no real layout or structure. The show is designed to be developmental for WWE, not just wrestling. I feel the show is already tremendously diverse with who is featured each week.

Plus, multiple episodes are filmed in a short amount of time. I think a few in one day unless I'm mistaken. So if Rawley doesn't show up for the filming, he could miss like 3-4 episodes. Also, the Diva's take up a considerable amount of time on a 1 hour show. To have a decent diva's segment and the NXT champ (who deserves to be on every show in some way, wrestling or not) takes up at least 30 minutes including commericals.

I like the balance right now.
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Triple H missing the point of NXT?

I think they're doing just fine:

Not every minor leaguer who gets called up to the majors holds onto a roster spot in baseball, not every actor who gets a bit part becomes a Broadway or movie star.

The idea that WWE has failed if someone goes through NXT and doesn't get over is to me unrealistic -- a percentage of them have to make it, but they can also make it at different levels. Some may be solid midcarders, some may become useful jobbers or niche acts like Fandango, and some need to rise to the upper card and become main eventers. But simple logic tells you that they can't all become major stars.
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Old 07-07-2014, 11:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Triple H missing the point of NXT?

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Originally Posted by cesaro_ROCKS View Post
NXT is just the taped televised shows. There is training that goes on off TV. The best of who performs that training probably are the ones we see on TV each week. So right now, Bull must be being pretty damn impressive if he's getting TV time.

Keep in mind, some stories will flow over to NXT from Raw/Smackdown. The show must have some organized content (where the champ is definitely on, divas champ too). Otherwise it would just be a wrestling variety hour with no real layout or structure. The show is designed to be developmental for WWE, not just wrestling. I feel the show is already tremendously diverse with who is featured each week.

Plus, multiple episodes are filmed in a short amount of time. I think a few in one day unless I'm mistaken. So if Rawley doesn't show up for the filming, he could miss like 3-4 episodes. Also, the Diva's take up a considerable amount of time on a 1 hour show. To have a decent diva's segment and the NXT champ (who deserves to be on every show in some way, wrestling or not) takes up at least 30 minutes including commericals.

I like the balance right now.
I get the structure, what I'm wondering essentially is if you give the NXT championship to a great wrestler with many years of in ring experience, that also happens to be a guy that can't talk AT ALL would not his time on tv be better served trying to get better as a speaker and a character, rather than putting on good, albeit meaningless matches? Sure he needs to wrestle big matches occasionally to justify being the champ but why not build to them. John Cena doesn't wrestle every Raw and doesn't appear on most SmackDowns, sometimes he just comes out and cuts a promo to help build a feud. If Neville is to be more than a low midcarder, more than Kofi Jr then he needs to figure out a way to get his character over outside the ring. There's not much better he can get as a wrestler so why not focus whatever development time he has left on his weaknesses to give him the best chance at getting over on the main roster, otherwise what would have been the point of having him in NXT for so long?
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Old 07-07-2014, 11:14 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Triple H missing the point of NXT?

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I think they're doing just fine:

Not every minor leaguer who gets called up to the majors holds onto a roster spot in baseball, not every actor who gets a bit part becomes a Broadway or movie star.

The idea that WWE has failed if someone goes through NXT and doesn't get over is to me unrealistic -- a percentage of them have to make it, but they can also make it at different levels. Some may be solid midcarders, some may become useful jobbers or niche acts like Fandango, and some need to rise to the upper card and become main eventers. But simple logic tells you that they can't all become major stars.
Yea buts it's like they're not trying that hard to make stars. Why were Big E and Paige called up without characters or mic skills? Why is Sami Zayn not one bit different than he was when he debuted a year ago? Neville has made some progress on the mic but not enough and he doesn't have a character either. Bo is the only NXT guy to really have his character and mic skills developed since Bray Wyatt. Isn't that a sign that something's wrong?

Who in NXT currently is even being positioned to be more than a midcarder?
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Old 07-07-2014, 11:29 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Triple H missing the point of NXT?

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I get the structure, what I'm wondering essentially is if you give the NXT championship to a great wrestler with many years of in ring experience, that also happens to be a guy that can't talk AT ALL would not his time on tv be better served trying to get better as a speaker and a character, rather than putting on good, albeit meaningless matches? Sure he needs to wrestle big matches occasionally to justify being the champ but why not build to them. John Cena doesn't wrestle every Raw and doesn't appear on most SmackDowns, sometimes he just comes out and cuts a promo to help build a feud. If Neville is to be more than a low midcarder, more than Kofi Jr then he needs to figure out a way to get his character over outside the ring. There's not much better he can get as a wrestler so why not focus whatever development time he has left on his weaknesses to give him the best chance at getting over on the main roster, otherwise what would have been the point of having him in NXT for so long?
The biggest problem I have is that they've dedicated a lot of time and effort to using main roster guys like Brodus Clay and Tyson Kidd to try and put Neville over as a babyface, and for what reason? What does looking like a strong babyface on NXT achieve for Neville's career? As you say, getting over and looking credible on NXT shouldn't be the priority, the priority should be improving these guys' weaknesses in preparation for a main roster call-up. I pretty much don't watch the main events of NXT anymore because it just seems to have turned into some NXT Redemption type shit with the same few guys working long matches and storylines that are ultimately meaningless and don't go anywhere. And everyone else is left to flounder, working directionless squash matches which also don't go anywhere.
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Old 07-08-2014, 01:48 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Triple H missing the point of NXT?

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Originally Posted by Afnorok View Post
Triple H did a longass very interesting conference call before Nxt aRRival live show where he talked a lot about NXT goals long term..
Useful link. I think this shows it to be HHH's first big responsibility and he's made it as big as possible and got the audience figures up so he can point to simple measures of success. Then he can get a bigger job in WWE. This result isn't the same as building a developmental system that works efficiently though.

We know that Rusev is foreign and can sit on people. None of his recent matches have developed him further. We know Rawley is a hyperactive child. We know Zayn is a very skilful babyface. We know that Neville is very acrobatic. Again, development? What has changed for these guys lately?
We know that unknown rookies can be squashed. Why have people on contracts to do that?

NXT now has Devitt, Steen, Zayn, Kidd, Neville, Randall, Rusev, Enzo & Crowe. All good talents with very diverse characters and if some of these can't be converted to main roster talent then something is wrong. How many main roster guys do they need? Concentrate time and resource into them and get them across quickly. There are some more behind them like Dawson, Wilder, Murphy but after that, what is the point unless they have some unique look (e.g Stowman)? FL indys can supply squash opponents.
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:20 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Is Triple H missing the point of NXT?

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The biggest problem I have is that they've dedicated a lot of time and effort to using main roster guys like Brodus Clay and Tyson Kidd to try and put Neville over as a babyface, and for what reason? What does looking like a strong babyface on NXT achieve for Neville's career? As you say, getting over and looking credible on NXT shouldn't be the priority, the priority should be improving these guys' weaknesses in preparation for a main roster call-up. I pretty much don't watch the main events of NXT anymore because it just seems to have turned into some NXT Redemption type shit with the same few guys working long matches and storylines that are ultimately meaningless and don't go anywhere. And everyone else is left to flounder, working directionless squash matches which also don't go anywhere.
I agree that NXT lately has been uninteresting and has been using way too many main roster guys but perhaps it is being done to get to know how people react to Neville being pushed as an underdog champion and if can he keep people interested in him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris JeriG.O.A.T View Post
Yea buts it's like they're not trying that hard to make stars. Why were Big E and Paige called up without characters or mic skills? Why is Sami Zayn not one bit different than he was when he debuted a year ago? Neville has made some progress on the mic but not enough and he doesn't have a character either. Bo is the only NXT guy to really have his character and mic skills developed since Bray Wyatt. Isn't that a sign that something's wrong?

Who in NXT currently is even being positioned to be more than a midcarder?
I agree with some of that but that's more of an issue of WWE itself and not NXT. A lot of people were clamoring for Paige to get called up like a year ago and unless WWE wanted to give her a zombie or vampire gimmick that's pretty much as good as Paige was going to get, which, by diva standards, is pretty damn good. You have to understand that those may be their ceilings and not everyone can get an incredible gimmick like Bray or Bo to completely turn their act around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris JeriG.O.A.T View Post
That's how it is now but "is that how it should be" is the question. In the interview posted above Triple H says Now lets take Becky Lench for example, her gimmick has been widely panned by the IWC, now that it's known that ppl hate the gimmick should they just leave her as is so she can fail? What purpose does NXT tv serve if they come from NXT Live events as a finished product and go to the main roster with no significant development in between?
No, I'm pretty sure that Becky Lynch's character is going to suffer huge changes in the future, as more and more people get tired of it. NXT has a good track record in those situations, they turned a bland Bo into an incredible character and they made CJ Parker somewhat interesting, just as examples. As I said before, the NXT tv show is the last stage of the creative process, that's where WWE figures out what really could work on TV and what doesn't and where they take the steps to make sure someone is ready for the main roster.

I think there is significant development in between. They learn how to work in a weekly television show and everything that comes with it (pre-taped interviews, live promos for TV, learning to wrestle for the cameras, having rivalries that carry over week to week and possibly culminate in a PPV).

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It's too easy to say that a talent can't do something so we just shouldn't try to make them better at it. Yea for every 50 Curtis Axels theres only one Rock, but one Rock is worth 1000 Curtis Axels to the WWE and they have the resources to make that one Rock. You don't even have to look further than Curtis Axels tag team partner to see that ppl can develop. A year ago Ryback had 0 mic skills and 0 personality and all his promos were prerecorded garbage, now Ryback is no SCSA on the mic but hes become good enough to entertain and start building a following. If they'll let somebody like Seth Rollins develop on the mic live on Raw, why not try to let Neville develop on taped tv? If it's good then show it, if its not cut it. And give guys a decent run with it, no 2 strikes and you're out nonsense like Vince just did to Paige.
I don't think you could create a Rock even if you had limitless resources. Some people have that superstar within them, others don't. It's NXT's job to find out who has it and who doesn't and make sure everybody has a chance to show it by creating scenarios and gimmicks that play to their strengths. However, the elusive "it factor" that turns someone into a star is pretty much impossible to fabricate, no matter how much mic time you give them. The most important thing in my opinion is finding the right situation for each person and that can only be done by trial and error. Rollins was always a decent promo guy and he's been lucky to have been put in very good situations ever since he debuted. Good creative is the key for development and unfortunately for us, good creative in WWE comes every once in a while. Also, the wrestlers themselves need to care about their characters and have an active role in the storylines they're involved with, you can't let the WWE writers come up with every idea and expect to become a star. Some guys just don't have that in them though, either because they don't get wrestling (Mason Ryan) or because wrestling for them is 90% what happens inside the ring and 10% what happens outside (Neville).

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As for NXT utilizing their strengths and hiding their weakness to put on a better product than Raw and SmackDown it has to be understood that NXT isn't it's own universe, these guys eventually either have to go up or get out. This was never meant to be HHHs personal wrestling promotion.
I know that, what I meant is that sometimes NXT's creative is able to hide some person's flaws and then when they go the main roster and don't have that support behind them they get their weaknesses exposed. A good example of this in my opinion is Emma. When she was on NXT she had an interesting, multi-dimensional character but when she got to Raw the only thing they cared about and showcased was her silly dance. There was no character developmental as there was on NXT and she failed because of it, even though Emma the character was a finished product. Success it's all about putting people in the right situations and understanding what they excel in and working around their limitations. Eliminating weaknesses is pretty much a quixotic endeavour.
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