WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 4 (FINAL FOUR) - Page 18 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:14 PM   #171 (permalink)
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Default Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 4 (FINAL FOUR)

You're right

Not BDK though
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:36 PM   #172 (permalink)
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Default Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 4 (FINAL FOUR)

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Originally Posted by kobra860 View Post
No it wouldn't have because Tupac's Greatest Hits was a double album.
you might have a point here. either way BIGGIE was still more popular when they were both alive.


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Oh really? I can think of maybe 2 songs that aren't about his typical material.








I'D ARGUE THAT JUICY IS MORE WIDELY KNOWN/HAD A BIGGER IMPACT THAN ANY TUPAC SONG ON MAINSTREAM AMERICA.

his 2nd album is hugely influenced by mafiaoso so it's hard to argue that it's not gangster all the way through. still the singles weren't one demensional. they were also hugely successful. GOAT double disc either way.

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The streets? What good will that do? Most of the people buying the albums aren't from the streets.
you're the one that declared him one demensional. his tracks about money, drugs and women were indeed influential on the last 15 years of hip hop. still the ones buying his albums weren't from the street which just proves his crossover appeal. he attracted everyone.

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So we're dictating who's better by who had more mainstream appeal? That's a poor measurement for greatness.
not really. i'm just pointing out that Tupac was hardly a big deal when he was alive compared to BIG until he died. he's been overrated with death. that is all.

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Same for Biggie who only had 2 albums (technically 3) with mostly one dimensional lyrics.
eh I don't count either of their posthumous albums besides 7 day theory (which is easily tupac's best album btw) and ready to die. as they were both set to release before their death anyway. anything after 7 day theory and ready to die i don't count. it is mostly one dimensional for biggie, but he clearly proved he wasn't one dimensional. he was capable of touching on the death and other emotional issues. he also did it better than tupac.

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Biggie would be a top 10 at best. Most people would put Tupac and Nas in the top 5 easily.
most people actually put Biggie in their top 5. most people i've encountered that know what they're talking about (not casuals) put him in their top 3 and definitely rate him above Pac. fundamentally BIG is a better hip hop artist. the only advantage tupac has is on his emotional content. yeah he might have rapped about more things, but he was subpar when covering that subject matter for the most part. BIG has the GOAT flow no matter what. he was impeccable. his discog is also perfection. he will always be the GOAT IMO.

Last edited by scrilla : 10-20-2012 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:14 AM   #173 (permalink)
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Default Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 4 (FINAL FOUR)

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Originally Posted by scrilla View Post
you might have a point here. either way BIGGIE was still more popular when they were both alive.
Which doesn't really mean much. Besides who do you think is more marketable: a guy who makes fluff rap about money, women, and drugs with nice beats or the guy who talks about his impending death and being militant?

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I'D ARGUE THAT JUICY IS MORE WIDELY KNOWN/HAD A BIGGER IMPACT THAN ANY TUPAC SONG ON MAINSTREAM AMERICA.
And you would be so wrong. Changes, Dear Mama, and Keep Ya Head Up all say otherwise. In fact Changes had a bigger impact on an international scale. It made the top 10 for many other countries. Dear Mama was put into the Recording Registry for the Library of Congress. I doubt that Juicy is going in there anytime soon. lol.


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his 2nd album is hugely influenced by mafiaoso so it's hard to argue that it's not gangster all the way through. still the singles weren't one demensional. they were also hugely successful. GOAT double disc either way.
Yes they were. Hypnotize and Mo Money Mo Problems were the same old stuff. Sky's the Limit was an exception.

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you're the one that declared him one demensional.
Because he is.

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his tracks about money, drugs and women were indeed influential on the last 15 years of hip hop.
For all the wrong reasons.

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still the ones buying his albums weren't from the street which just proves his crossover appeal. he attracted everyone.
Because a lot of his music was party music/chill music. Most of his songs had nice beats which would appeal to a wider audience.


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not really. i'm just pointing out that Tupac was hardly a big deal when he was alive compared to BIG until he died. he's been overrated with death. that is all.
You are because you're using it as a reason for why you think BIG is better than Tupac. BIG has been way overrated after his death. Tupac has also but the fact that he's had tons of previously unreleased songs that were still high quality by today's standards is remarkable.


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eh I don't count either of their posthumous albums besides 7 day theory (which is easily tupac's best album btw) and ready to die. as they were both set to release before their death anyway. anything after 7 day theory and ready to die i don't count. it is mostly one dimensional for biggie, but he clearly proved he wasn't one dimensional. he was capable of touching on the death and other emotional issues. he also did it better than tupac.
I agree that 7 Day Theory was his best album. He didn't do it better than Tupac. Me Against the World (the album and especially the title track) touches on the topic way better than BIG.

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most people actually put Biggie in their top 5.
I don't agree with them though. With that being said, everyone puts Tupac in their top 5 as well but you don't agree with them.

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most people i've encountered that know what they're talking about (not casuals) put him in their top 3 and definitely rate him above Pac.
I've rarely seen too many people rank BIG over Tupac. The ones who did most likely were biased.

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fundamentally BIG is a better hip hop artist.
In terms of flow and storytelling. That's it. There's more to rapping than that.

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the only advantage tupac has is on his emotional content.
Along with the depth of his lyrical content using complex metaphors, alliteration, and other poetic devices. There are even college classes dedicated to analyzing his lyrics.
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:33 AM   #174 (permalink)
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Default Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 4 (FINAL FOUR)

7DT being Pac's best album is debatable. I'd give MATW the nod.
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:42 AM   #175 (permalink)
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Default Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 4 (FINAL FOUR)

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Originally Posted by Makaveli View Post
7DT being Pac's best album is debatable. I'd give MATW the nod.
It's easily MATW or Thug Life Vol 1 for me aswell. You could argue that 7DT is the most one dimensional of Pac's albums.
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:49 AM   #176 (permalink)
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Default Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 4 (FINAL FOUR)

lol too many emotional white bois in dis thread
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:51 AM   #177 (permalink)
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Default Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 4 (FINAL FOUR)

I like Biggie, he had a unique flow, Biggie and Pac are so different in styles. I prefer Tupac though, he just had far better lyrical content.

I mean geez, at Up in Smoke 2000 when they were paying tribute to people who had passed away in the Music industry, Tupac got the biggest ovation, even bigger than Dre and Snoop combined when they were on stage. And that was in Boston ffs.

2pac is in a league of his own.
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:09 AM   #178 (permalink)
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Default Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 4 (FINAL FOUR)

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Originally Posted by A$AP View Post
It's easily MATW or Thug Life Vol 1 for me aswell. You could argue that 7DT is the most one dimensional of Pac's albums.
And it kinda is. That album is fucking dark man. To Live And Die In LA might be the only exception, but thinking about what was going on in his life at the time, what he'd been through, how he was behaving and acting and also what all of it was doing to his head and then realizing that's pretty much his album is scary. 7DT is an album from a tortured soul. Pac didn't give a FUCK at that point.

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Originally Posted by PunkSE316 View Post
I like Biggie, he had a unique flow, Biggie and Pac are so different in styles. I prefer Tupac though, he just had far better lyrical content.

I mean geez, at Up in Smoke 2000 when they were paying tribute to people who had passed away in the Music industry, Tupac got the biggest ovation, even bigger than Dre and Snoop combined when they were on stage. And that was in Boston ffs.

2pac is in a league of his own.
Influence wise, yeah. The dude's got murals of him on different continents ffs. Lyrically, not so much. He was always just "good". Lyricism was never his forte. Communicating was and that's where is legacy is.
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:25 AM   #179 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Choke2Death View Post
I doubt it. It's just that I'm probably more appreciative of laid-back party jams like "Check Out Time" and "Thug Passion" than you are which makes me like 99% of the album.
I dunno, I dig that style, I just don't think are, on the whole, anything too incredible. I don't think that's an unpopular viewpoint either.

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eh I don't count either of their posthumous albums besides 7 day theory (which is easily tupac's best album btw) and ready to die. as they were both set to release before their death anyway. anything after 7 day theory and ready to die i don't count.
Life After Death, but pedantry aside I completely agree with you, I've always preferred Biggie. Ready To Die is an insane debut album, good shout on Suicidal Thoughts, one of the GOAT endings to a hip hop LP.
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Old 10-21-2012, 09:15 AM   #180 (permalink)
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Default Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 4 (FINAL FOUR)

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Originally Posted by kobra860 View Post
I've rarely seen too many people rank BIG over Tupac. The ones who did most likely were biased.
Bias is a two way street. One could say the same for those who choose Pac.
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