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post #101 of 166 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 09:53 PM
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Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 1

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Originally Posted by Choke2Death View Post
Nice try, except Scarface has been around since late 80s and his best music is from 89-94 and 00-02. And I can probably think of only 5 people who deserve a top 10 spot as much as Scarface. I'm serious. He's a pioneer and influenced so many rappers, I don't know where to start. Not to mention, he makes great fucking music and is one of the most creative storytellers. And you mentioned Eric B for what? Again, he's NOT a rapper. You talk about Dr. Dre and Kanye not being worthy of the list (which I agree with) but at least they have RAPPED. Eric B's role in the albums with Rakim was simply scratching the disc and nodding his head in the background during their videos. That's it! Hell, the only time I've heard Eric B's voice was in "Paid in Full" during that conversation with Rakim. You might as well start putting DJ Premier on there even though he's never rapped but is the greatest producer in hip-hop next to Dre.

As for Andre 3000, he's an amazing rapper who has had so many dope verses. Run DMC only worked as a group and when they went solo, the results were underwhelming because they have unreal chemistry with each other, something that's missing from their solo stuff. I wouldn't put 3 Stacks in a top 20 but I can understand why others would.

And you have still not explained why Scarface is trash and "not deserving". All you've said is "he's simply not deserving" and that we love him because he was on TV (all I know is that he had a small appearance in Idiocracy, so much for "being on TV").
Whats with everyone getting a hard on becuase I said Eric B? Move on kiddies

I don't think he's lyrically strong imo. I don't find him entertaining or talented. I don't think his lyricism to be that advanced.Granted, I haevn't heard songs from him in a while I'll admit that and I'm not a fan but I'd be more than happy to listen to what you deem to be his best tracks lyrically.But you're going on about how awesome scarface is but you wont acknowledge guys like R.A. The Rugged man Or a Celph Titled when it comes to lyrical abilities. Infact no one did except for"R.A. had 1 memorable song". I dont think you said that but skill shouldn't be judged solely on if a song has meaning because there are a lot of guys on this list that didn't make many meaningful songs.But Like I said, I wasn't thinking and threw Eric B's name in, it was a big mistake. I know who and what Eric B did . I was talking about old school hiphop and his name popped in and said it. I fucked up is that really hard to understand?How many times do I need to say I messed up? The rest of the arguments don't need to go on any more about it or this guy didn't rap but he did. Dre rapped sure but its not the same. If you're not writing your own lyrics it holds no weight. Thats what rapping is, writing your OWN lyrics.

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Originally Posted by LBGetBack View Post
ERIC B DID NOT RAP ON THOSE ERIC B AND RAKIM ALBUMS!!

That's the point! You named a guy who didn't even rap!

He put out ONE album in like '95 that was GOD AWFUL and was/is so obscure that barely anyone even knows about it.

YOU NAMED SOMEBODY WHO BASICALLY WAS NOT A RAPPER!! YOU NAMED SOMEBODY WHO YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD RAP!! And you're still going on about "what he did on those Eric B and Rakim albums......he didn't do anything in terms of rapping! Sit down man!

You obviously were just trying to be cool because you've read about Eric B and Rakim, but clearly didn't listen to them and know nothing about them. You got busted. And you're STILL arguing it. LOLOLOL! Just take your L and be quiet.
Take it easy on teh caps

Not going on about this anymore. I already said what I said.Why are you so butt hurt about this? I made a mistake, and I owned up to it. I still know a lot about hiphop but ya I don't know because I don't kiss dead peoples asses, or people who heavily use autotune or ones who don't even write their own lyrics.

Like I said before, why are you ignoring anything else I said apart from Eric B? You know you can't . You just want to keep focus on one thing to cover up your short comings.

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Originally Posted by 777 View Post
Ugh, seriously, read back what you've written.

Knowing you made the mistake you insisted that he still deserves credit for his work with Rakim. That's what you said. Credit for what? The rapping that he never did?

Harping on the written lyrics issue isn't sufficient either. Plenty of talented musicians/performers don't write their own shit. Not hard really.

I could think of plenty of instances where I've demonstrated a propensity for retardation, this however is not one of them.
No , you read what I wrote. I said I made a mistake. Whats so hard about that? Yet you continue why?I didn't continue to try to defend why I put in Eric B, i stopped you don't seem to get that. Quite frankly no one wants to even acknowledge that I admitted to my mistake. Oh well



You guys are trying so hard. Its kinda funny. I make a mistake yet thats all people can talk about. I made 10 points but only 1 is ever talked about lol Thats fine but if you're telling me I don't know hiphop then explain why the names I put that are undeground guys aren't talented. And no saying"they aren't mainstream" or "dont make millions" don't count either. No one will or will half ass it but thats fine.

My point stands, guys like Kool G Rap,Slick Rick,Guru...all missing but I still get called ignorant
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post #102 of 166 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 10:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 1

No one's calling you ignorant because you're upset because Kool G Rap, Slick & Guru didn't make it.

They're calling you ignorant because you're trying to put down three guys who are all good rappers in 3K, Scarface & Black Thought, calling them trash but yet you think a bunch of the typical, elitist favorites underground rappers should be on the list. You have a problem with Scarface, Andre 3000 & Black Thought making it but yet you don't have a problem with Immortal Technique being there. You say that a guy like Scarface doesn't deserve to be in a GOAT Rapper tournament but yet guys like Vinnie Paz & R.A. the Rugged Man do.

And then there's you talking shit about Dr. Dre being voted in but yet suggesting Eric B to voted in the tourney and then complaining about Run-DMC not making it when anyone who follows hip-hop knows that as solo artist, Rev Run & DMC are simply just not that good.

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post #103 of 166 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 10:05 PM
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Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 1

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Originally Posted by Notorious View Post
No one's calling you ignorant because Kool G Rap, Slick & Guru didn't make it.

They're calling you ignorant because you're trying to put down three guys who are all good rappers in 3K, Scarface & Black Thought, calling them trash but yet you think a bunch of the typical, elitist favorites underground rappers should be. You say that a guy like Scarface shouldn't be in a GOAT Rapper tournament but yet guys like Vinnie Paz & R.A. the Rugged Man should be.

And then there's you talking shit about Dr. Dre being voted in but yet suggesting Eric B.
Nooo, I never once said underground rappers SHOULD be there. Don't misquote me. I said mroe deserving, that doesn't mean I believe they should be. I also gave criteria as to why I think they could be/more deserving. Based on raw talent.

Again,re-read and don't be changing what I said. And as for Eric B You clearly don't want to read what I wrote therefore what you say is invalid

Biggie gave props to Rugged Man for a reason btw
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post #104 of 166 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
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Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 1

Yes what I say is invalid because I mentioned you suggesting Eric B... Like LB said, just take your L and keep it moving on that one.

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing where/how Vinnie Paz & R.A. the Rugged Man are more talented than Andre 3000, Scarface or Black Thought.

And so what if Biggie gave R.A. the Rugged Man props? That's irrelevant as to whether or not he should be in a GOAT bracket.

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post #105 of 166 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 10:15 PM
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Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 1

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Originally Posted by Notorious View Post
Yes what I say is invalid because I mentioned you suggesting Eric B... Like LB said, just take your L and keep it moving on that one.

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing where/how Vinnie Paz & R.A. the Rugged Man are more talented than Andre 3000, Scarface or Black Thought.

And so what if Biggie gave R.A. the Rugged Man props? That's irrelevant as to whether or not he should be in a GOAT bracket.
What you say is invalid because you're making shit up thats why. Move along with Eric B, already said it was a msitake.

Explain why they aren't better. Tell me, why they lyrically suck and why are they elitist ?

Meaning Biggie is on the list if he says R.A. is better therefore R.A. > 90% of the list mathematical works in hiphop!... SARCASM maybe I need to spell it out before you go on about how I think some shit when I didn't say it or something. My point is.R.A. doesn't suck like some on this list
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post #106 of 166 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 10:16 PM
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Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 1

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Originally Posted by Stinger Fan View Post
Whats funny is that all you could get out of what I said was Eric B. Why only look at Eric B? You missed my point entirely. I never said Eric B is the greatest did I? I said he'd be more deserving than some of the names on this list. If you only read names(which clearly you did) you waited for something you disagree with but ignored what I said completely. Again, I'm not saying the list of guys I named are the greatest they deserve to be on the list OVER the guys I named before. Seriously why is that so hard to understand?


Again, you miss my point entirely. In terms of waht he did along Rakim years ago, as far as old school guys he'd be more deserving. I never said he's the greatest of all tiem nor would he, I said more deserving. Why is that hard to understand? But hey I'm sorry I don't think Kanye is one of the greatest of all time LOL
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post #107 of 166 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 10:19 PM
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Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 1

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Originally Posted by 777 View Post
These are your words, this is you admitting to your mistake?
No, I said it about 15 posts after right here

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Originally Posted by Stinger Fan View Post
I never once said"i know more than anyone".I may have made a mistake adding his name in but I was throwing out any name off the top of my head and Eric B and Rakim came to mind so I threw his name in.
I fucked up. I admitted to it so get over it
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post #108 of 166 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 10:19 PM
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Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 1

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Originally Posted by Stinger Fan View Post
Whats with everyone getting a hard on becuase I said Eric B? Move on kiddies

I don't think he's lyrically strong imo. I don't find him entertaining or talented. I don't think his lyricism to be that advanced.Granted, I haevn't heard songs from him in a while I'll admit that and I'm not a fan but I'd be more than happy to listen to what you deem to be his best tracks lyrically.But you're going on about how awesome scarface is but you wont acknowledge guys like R.A. The Rugged man Or a Celph Titled when it comes to lyrical abilities. Infact no one did except for"R.A. had 1 memorable song". I dont think you said that but skill shouldn't be judged solely on if a song has meaning because there are a lot of guys on this list that didn't make many meaningful songs.But Like I said, I wasn't thinking and threw Eric B's name in, it was a big mistake. I know who and what Eric B did . I was talking about old school hiphop and his name popped in and said it. I fucked up is that really hard to understand?How many times do I need to say I messed up? The rest of the arguments don't need to go on any more about it or this guy didn't rap but he did. Dre rapped sure but its not the same. If you're not writing your own lyrics it holds no weight. Thats what rapping is, writing your OWN lyrics.
The reason the Eric B thing keeps following you is because it was a fucking stupid mistake to make!

As for Scarface's best songs. There are so many, I don't know where to start. Mind Playing Tricks on Me, I Seen a Man Die, Last of a Dying Breed, On My Block, Scarface (song), A Minute to Pray and a Second to Die, G-Code, Now I Feel Ya, The Wall, Gotta Let Your Nuts Hang, Seek & Destroy, Money and the Power, No Tears, Smile, Hand of the Dead Body, Someday, What Can I Do?, In Cold Blood, In My Time, It Ain't Shit, Born Killer and that's not even all. But from this selection, you'll get an idea of how great he is. It has it all, storytelling, deep genuine emotions, meaningful, anger, politics, anything you want...

As for Celph Titled, RA and whoever else, I don't care how many punchlines or multi-syllables they can spit out if they have zero personality and are just boring to listen to. Besides, how much material do they have? One or two albums, that's it, right? And please, don't bring up Andre 3000 here because I'm not talking about him.

And lastly, Dre rapped but didn't write his lyrics, Eric B never rapped. Keyword is RAPPING. Eric B never did it yet you kept on saying that he deserves to be on the list and keep whining about Dre never writing his lyrics and I and plenty others have already agreed that he shouldn't be on the list. But again... he has at least RAPPED, Eric B has never done that which rules him out automatically. Sorry, you can keep saying "I MADE A MISTAKE!" but this was so stupid that it killed any credibility your opinion had.
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post #109 of 166 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 10:24 PM
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Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 1

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Originally Posted by Choke2Death View Post
The reason the Eric B thing keeps following you is because it was a fucking stupid mistake to make!

As for Scarface's best songs. There are so many, I don't know where to start. Mind Playing Tricks on Me, I Seen a Man Die, Last of a Dying Breed, On My Block, Scarface (song), A Minute to Pray and a Second to Die, G-Code, Now I Feel Ya, The Wall, Gotta Let Your Nuts Hang, Seek & Destroy, Money and the Power, No Tears, Smile, Hand of the Dead Body, Someday, What Can I Do?, In Cold Blood, In My Time, It Ain't Shit, Born Killer and that's not even all. But from this selection, you'll get an idea of how great he is. It has it all, storytelling, deep genuine emotions, meaningful, anger, politics, anything you want...

As for Celph Titled, RA and whoever else, I don't care how many punchlines or multi-syllables they can spit out if they have zero personality and are just boring to listen to. Besides, how much material do they have? One or two albums, that's it, right? And please, don't bring up Andre 3000 here because I'm not talking about him.

And lastly, Dre rapped but didn't write his lyrics, Eric B never rapped. Keyword is RAPPING. Eric B never did it yet you kept on saying that he deserves to be on the list and keep whining about Dre never writing his lyrics and I and plenty others have already agreed that he shouldn't be on the list. But again... he has at least RAPPED, Eric B has never done that which rules him out automatically. Sorry, you can keep saying "I MADE A MISTAKE!" but this was so stupid that it killed any credibility your opinion had.
I know it was a stupid mistake.Like I said I know who Eric B is, maybe I was thinking of something else I'm not making any excuses but if thats the reason why my opinion's credibility is killed off thats ridiculous but oh well.

Celph has over 100 songs by himself, not to mention his features on AOTP. The gatalog is 4 cd's of just his stuff , free styles and features.R.A. had 3 albums but he was also blacklisted from hiphop

Rapping is about writing your own shit.Dre didn't therefore Eminem and Snoop should get more credit than he did
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post #110 of 166 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: WF GOAT Rapper Tournament Round 1

@Stinger Fan: I never said they sucked. I never called them elitist, I called you an elitist. That's what you're acting like.

I just think Scarface, Black Thought and Andre 3000 are all better. Their catalogs are more impressive, they've been apart of classic albums both solo and contributing in groups, they have classic songs, they're consistent rappers who always bring it every time they're spitting. What album has Vinnie Paz made that's better than The Diary or The Fix? I'm taking Love Below over any Vinnie Paz album. Granted Black Thought has never released a solo album, but his work with The Roots kills anything Vinnie Paz has made.

Like I said the rappers you named aren't bad, they're just not better than those three. They don't have any classic albums or classic songs. They aren't as versatile and able to adapt to any style of beat, any different topic, etc. Once again, I don't think they're bad rappers, Army of the Pharaohs are dope group. But I'm taking 3K, Black Thought and Scarface over them. No question.

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