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post #41 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-22-2013, 11:29 PM
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Re: Is Heyman greater than Heenan?

I respect people's opinions, without a doubt, that's what a public forum is for but hearing people saying certain things about Heenan being less than Heyman is ludicrous, I do genuinely wonder how much of Heenan's work is actually known by those saying Heyman here.

Again, I totally respect people's opinions but it's just Heenan is in an absolute league of his own, that although Heyman is close up there, due to him also being in a league of his own, I really don't see how anyone can say that Heyman is above Heenan, in regards to what basis Heyman takes over Heenan, I don't think it can be done really.
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post #42 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-22-2013, 11:38 PM
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Re: Is Heyman greater than Heenan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Chancery View Post
Commentator, absolutely. Mic skills? Heyman's probably top 10 all time in terms of mic skills. Heenan had wit, but he couldn't command an audience half as well as Paul E.
I have to question how much of Heenan's work you are familiar with.
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post #43 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-22-2013, 11:39 PM
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Re: Is Heyman greater than Heenan?

In regards to promos, I'd give the edge to Heyman, solely because the art of promos is drastically different compared to Heenan's time.

For the most part, Heenan cut backstage promos, away from the live audience, with limited time. Heyman gets to come out on live TV and gets ample enough time to speak. Big difference in atmosphere and in front of the live audience, you get the sense that he has the crowd in the palm of his hand.

But to Heenan's credit, whether it was 90 or 120 seconds, he made the viewer raise interest because he brought attention to whatever he was involved in and was always able to put over an angle and the opposition with his words, in such a short amount of time. I just think the ability to do that in front of a live audience every week gives Heyman the advantage.

But, Heenan was still a better manager because he got people over and as I said before, he was a "game changer" as a manager. He was more than just a guy at ringside, he was apart of the story. Heyman was initially in WCW but has only recently became a guy that could affect the outcome of the match again.
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post #44 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-22-2013, 11:53 PM
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Re: Is Heyman greater than Heenan?

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Originally Posted by Fresh Dougie View Post
In regards to promos, I'd give the edge to Heyman, solely because the art of promos is drastically different compared to Heenan's time.

For the most part, Heenan cut backstage promos, away from the live audience, with limited time. Heyman gets to come out on live TV and gets ample enough time to speak. Big difference in atmosphere and in front of the live audience, you get the sense that he has the crowd in the palm of his hand.

But to Heenan's credit, whether it was 90 or 120 seconds, he made the viewer raise interest because he brought attention to whatever he was involved in and was always able to put over an angle and the opposition with his words, in such a short amount of time. I just think the ability to do that in front of a live audience every week gives Heyman the advantage.

But, Heenan was still a better manager because he got people over and as I said before, he was a "game changer" as a manager. He was more than just a guy at ringside, he was apart of the story. Heyman was initially in WCW but has only recently became a guy that could affect the outcome of the match again.
Well put and I respect your opinions, but Heenan was more than capable of performing and controlling a live audience, but as you said the art of promos is drastically different so from that perspective it is comparing apples to oranges.

You made a great point about Heenan's ability to get his point across in such a short period of time. Heyman needs longer to have an equal effect.

Heenan's ability as an outside interference is legendary. When I think of an outcome that a manager had the most direct influence on I will always consider Heenan costing Ultimate Warrior the IC belt ay WM5 at the top of the list.
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post #45 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-23-2013, 12:03 AM
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Re: Is Heyman greater than Heenan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh Dougie View Post
In regards to promos, I'd give the edge to Heyman, solely because the art of promos is drastically different compared to Heenan's time.

For the most part, Heenan cut backstage promos, away from the live audience, with limited time. Heyman gets to come out on live TV and gets ample enough time to speak. Big difference in atmosphere and in front of the live audience, you get the sense that he has the crowd in the palm of his hand.

But to Heenan's credit, whether it was 90 or 120 seconds, he made the viewer raise interest because he brought attention to whatever he was involved in and was always able to put over an angle and the opposition with his words, in such a short amount of time. I just think the ability to do that in front of a live audience every week gives Heyman the advantage.

But, Heenan was still a better manager because he got people over and as I said before, he was a "game changer" as a manager. He was more than just a guy at ringside, he was apart of the story. Heyman was initially in WCW but has only recently became a guy that could affect the outcome of the match again.
Now, although I don't overly agree with this post too much, I respect this one massively, your points are valid and have substance and has been said with knowledge, that it's just a matter of opinion really, there is a difference when people comment in regards to a matter of opinion with knowledge, or when they comment cause they don't know different so go with what they know, after seeing both and knowing both well, you can then, and only then ... put a perspective on these kinda things with an opinion, which I respect and that's why I like this post a lot!

But ... I do feel that you have slightly misjudged Heenan's skills to work a crowd, he knew how to do it at ringside so many times, or even while interfering with the wrestlers (including quite often his own talent, such as Andre or Perfect for example), not forgetting how he handled that whole Weasel Suit match against The Ultimate Warrior .... and the way he would deal (and take) the taunts too ... was very admirable, but again, I really do respect your post massively, though just wanted to mention this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by creepycrawl View Post
Well put and I respect your opinions, but Heenan was more than capable of performing and controlling a live audience, but as you said the art of promos is drastically different so from that perspective it is comparing apples to oranges.

You made a great point about Heenan's ability to get his point across in such a short period of time. Heyman needs longer to have an equal effect.

Heenan's ability as an outside interference is legendary. When I think of an outcome that a manager had the most direct influence on I will always consider Heenan costing Ultimate Warrior the IC belt ay WM5 at the top of the list.
Exactly!!!!
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post #46 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-23-2013, 12:17 AM
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Re: Is Heyman greater than Heenan?

They put the entire 1992 Royal Rumble on Heenan's DVD. Thats what a 70 minute match? Yeah Heenan was a fucking God as a heel commentator. Nobody compares in that category. As a manager too he was wonderful. Drew heat like a mother.

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post #47 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-23-2013, 12:25 AM
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Re: Is Heyman greater than Heenan?

When comparing them as managers we must also look at the talent they were given to work with. I remember a little from Paul E Dangerously, but not a whole lot. He was given Brock. Brock's in ring prowess would have gotten him over but Heyman was needed to get him over faster and Heyman did an excellent job and then He worked with Punk, who was already over.

Hennan got Andre late in his career and done wonders with him in leading up to WM3 and he had Rude, who has mics skills on par with Punk, IMO. Most of the other talent he worked with, he was directly responsible for helping elevating them and making them much better.
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post #48 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-23-2013, 01:28 AM
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Re: Is Heyman greater than Heenan?

I love Heyman, but Heenan is on a different level. GOAT heel manager and heel commentator. He was so quick-minded and funny, it just kept going moment after moment. Heyman is a smart guy but he has to stop and think at times. Heenan didn't have to stop, he just kept going and could come up with the material as he kept talking. He was the guy.

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post #49 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-23-2013, 01:29 AM
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Re: Is Heyman greater than Heenan?

Both excellent talents in their own right but not exactly comparable.
Heyman is continually establishing his legacy in the wrestling world as we speak.

Bobby 'The Brain' Heenan's time in the WWF is legendary. His commentary pairing with Gorilla Monsoon added so much to the show, not mention all the legendary talents he's managed over the years, not to mention he did mix it up in the ring also from time to time.

There is only one Bobby 'The Brain' Heenan but just the same there is only one Paul Heyman.

Answering to the point, no. Not yet anyhow. But I think when his career is over it'll be (and should be) held in similar esteem but for different reasons.

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post #50 of 94 (permalink) Old 09-23-2013, 01:46 AM
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Re: Is Heyman greater than Heenan?

Heyman's close, but Heenan was better as a manager.

And Jesse Ventura was better than both of them as a color commentator.
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