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Old 05-17-2013, 05:03 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Didn't his main event push start before he started dating Stephanie? Then whilst working together there was apparent chemistry and finally got together whilst the Helmsley-McMahon angle had already started. Well according to x-pac.

Yeah he did use politics to get up the ladder but when there's Austin/Rock/Undertaker/Mankind/Etc you need all the help you can get. Put me in a position in a company full of backs stabbers who are trying to get a head I'd do exactly what HHH did. Politicked and trying to bed Stephanie, rather do that than be in Zack Ryder's position.

To answer the original question only Vince Russo knows. You need a bad guy to fight the good guy to make the show work and HHH was 1 of the best bad guys at the time
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:33 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Vince Russo think of Triple H as a top guy

Who knows what Russo thought?
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:40 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Vince Russo think of Triple H as a top guy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashly View Post
He dated the boss's daughter, that's all there is to it. Who knows what his career would be like now if it wasn't for Stephanie. Maybe he could still achieve the same success that he does now, who knows really. Honestly it doesn't really matter at this point. He was able to get the perks, why wouldn't he take them.
You have your opinion of the career trajectory of HHH without Stephanie and that's fine, but what if godfather would've married Steph? Would Godfather have the type of career HHH did? I'd agree that HHH probably did have some benefits with being so close to the "Family", but you still have to get over and produce in the spot you've been given. Are you saying HHH was never over in his career? Hypothethically, if HHH was in the spot just because of Stephanie you still have to produce to stay in the spot you were given. HHH wasn't a main eventer in WWE for a decade+ by accident.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:40 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Vince Russo think of Triple H as a top guy

Fact: HHH became champion BEFORE he dated Stephaine.

Fact: The Mcmahon-Helmsley era started BEFORE he dated Stephaine

Fact: The Mcmaho-Helmsley era was one of the best years in wrestling history.

Triple H was fantastic until about 2002 when he won the title from Jericho. After that, he just became boring.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:58 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Vince Russo think of Triple H as a top guy

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Originally Posted by tor187 View Post
Amen. Couldn't have said it better. He was a kiss ass from day one. Back in the kliq era, he was their designated driver and used to carry around their bags. Then, he cheats on his girlfriend with a woman he was attracted to only due to her wealth and power. He then goes and sleeps his way to the top of the company, purposely putting himself over countless others for no apparent reason other than to stroke his own ego and to remain relevant. That being said, he's also boring on the mic and in the ring.
Even taking her wealth and power out of the equation, Steph is a MASSIVE trade-up from Chyna.
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Old 05-17-2013, 02:03 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Vince Russo think of Triple H as a top guy

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Originally Posted by LilOlMe View Post
This was Triple H's ascension to the top, for those who like to have amnesia (or are unaware), and forget that he's been doing the Stephanie type of shit, long before Stephanie. None of his rise was EVER through natural means.

*Get yourself in good with Nash & Michaels, who were essentially running the show, by brown-nosing and carrying their bags.

*Slide your way into Michaels' meetings with Vince, and start telling Vince what to do with top stars (while you're still completely unover in your Hunter Hearst incarnation).

*Start using that position to try to fuck over your competition. [See the note in Bret Hart's book about how HHH tried to use Bret to knock off The Rock, after The Rock was booked to win the IC title from HHH...HHH then tried to use his power to book Bret knocking off The Rock for the IC title, but Bret refused to beat The Rock, because he didn't want to stop The Rock's rise, and saw it exactly for what it was [HHH trying to fuck over The Rock] and this infuriated HHH. The Rock in his book wrote about other wrestlers trying to tear him down, and credits Bret for being generous and looking out for him. He also praises the other big names at the time, with Shawn being the glaring omission.]

*Bret also refers to HHH & Shawn constantly badmouthing The Rock to Vince, claiming that he was stiff, missing spots, etc., etc. You can't write it off as just Bret, since this is the Kliq's M.O. Countless other wrestlers have talked about this being the way the Kliq would knock off wrestlers that they didn't like (Shane Douglas, Vader, etc.), using those same exact words. This was a concerted effort on their part.

*HHH tries to get himself booked into beating Bret cleanly at a house show. Bret is at the top of his game at this point and HHH is...HHH.

*Shawn attributes most of the Montreal stuff to HHH, in both his book, and the Greatest Rivalries DVD. So we have one of the biggest situations ever in wrestling, with only four people in on it, and making decisions on it...Shawn, Vince, Jerry Brisco and....HHH. Wtf? Who is he? And HHH was the shot-caller! Amazing. And the worst part is, Vince & Bret had already come to an agreement, with Shawn onboard, until HHH talked him out of it (Bret beating Shawn in Canada, and then dropping the belt to him cleanly in Springfield). Regardless of the merits of the Montreal situation, the fact that HHH was even in on a high level discussion like that, is unbelievable. And goes to show you how far he was using his behind the scenes climbing.

*HHH remains on the booking committee, and presumably after Shawn retires due to injury, is the only active wrestler in this position. Coincidence that he would rise into the position that he did, while Austin & Rock attained it through natural means (and The Rock attaining it despite HHH trying to use his positioning to knock him off)?

*Dumps his long-term girlfriend, for someone who is the complete polar opposite of her, both physically & personality-wise. Keys to the kingdom set for life.

And suddenly HHH is one of the GOATs...supposedly. And a new generation will claim that "hey, he did it before Stephanie", not understanding that it never happened organically. There was politicking and "Stephanies" long before Stephanie. And that's why anyone who was around back then, can never take HHH seriously, because he did not get over in a natural way, without the behind the scenes usery, unlike Austin, Rock, Hart, and even Michaels' rises. Yeah, Michaels started politicking later on into his career, but he was already quite big and respected, with performances like the Ladder Match. HHH is the only one who's been using, brow-nosing, and politicking from DAY ONE. And it never stopped.

Aside from many other reasons, it's just hard to be considered a GOAT, when you know of all the behind the scenes machinations that had to take place in order to even get into that position. Most others got there through their sheer talent, maybe with just a slight bit of scheming on the side. With HHH, it was a whole hellavu a lot of scheming, plotting, and self-serving bs. From day one.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:00 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Vince Russo think of Triple H as a top guy

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePandagirl20 View Post
Who knows what Russo thought?
Well pandagirl it's actually really simple to know what somebody thinks. You see they do these things called interviews. I'm sure you heard of them. Russo for example has done hundreds of them the past ten years or so. So I'm thinking maybe somebody here has seen one where he talks about "the game". And somebody did. As someone stated earlier in this thread, Russo said in an interview that a reason he didn't come back in 2002 was because of Triple H. Now you know.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:07 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Vince Russo think of Triple H as a top guy

There is a thing called being a condescending prick as well...
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:21 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilOlMe View Post
This was Triple H's ascension to the top, for those who like to have amnesia (or are unaware), and forget that he's been doing the Stephanie type of shit, long before Stephanie. None of his rise was EVER through natural means.

*Get yourself in good with Nash & Michaels, who were essentially running the show, by brown-nosing and carrying their bags.

*Slide your way into Michaels' meetings with Vince, and start telling Vince what to do with top stars (while you're still completely unover in your Hunter Hearst incarnation).

*Start using that position to try to fuck over your competition. [See the note in Bret Hart's book about how HHH tried to use Bret to knock off The Rock, after The Rock was booked to win the IC title from HHH...HHH then tried to use his power to book Bret knocking off The Rock for the IC title, but Bret refused to beat The Rock, because he didn't want to stop The Rock's rise, and saw it exactly for what it was [HHH trying to fuck over The Rock] and this infuriated HHH. The Rock in his book wrote about other wrestlers trying to tear him down, and credits Bret for being generous and looking out for him. He also praises the other big names at the time, with Shawn being the glaring omission.]

*Bret also refers to HHH & Shawn constantly badmouthing The Rock to Vince, claiming that he was stiff, missing spots, etc., etc. You can't write it off as just Bret, since this is the Kliq's M.O. Countless other wrestlers have talked about this being the way the Kliq would knock off wrestlers that they didn't like (Shane Douglas, Vader, etc.), using those same exact words. This was a concerted effort on their part.

*HHH tries to get himself booked into beating Bret cleanly at a house show. Bret is at the top of his game at this point and HHH is...HHH.

*Shawn attributes most of the Montreal stuff to HHH, in both his book, and the Greatest Rivalries DVD. So we have one of the biggest situations ever in wrestling, with only four people in on it, and making decisions on it...Shawn, Vince, Jerry Brisco and....HHH. Wtf? Who is he? And HHH was the shot-caller! Amazing. And the worst part is, Vince & Bret had already come to an agreement, with Shawn onboard, until HHH talked him out of it (Bret beating Shawn in Canada, and then dropping the belt to him cleanly in Springfield). Regardless of the merits of the Montreal situation, the fact that HHH was even in on a high level discussion like that, is unbelievable. And goes to show you how far he was using his behind the scenes climbing.

*HHH remains on the booking committee, and presumably after Shawn retires due to injury, is the only active wrestler in this position. Coincidence that he would rise into the position that he did, while Austin & Rock attained it through natural means (and The Rock attaining it despite HHH trying to use his positioning to knock him off)?

*Dumps his long-term girlfriend, for someone who is the complete polar opposite of her, both physically & personality-wise. Keys to the kingdom set for life.

And suddenly HHH is one of the GOATs...supposedly. And a new generation will claim that "hey, he did it before Stephanie", not understanding that it never happened organically. There was politicking and "Stephanies" long before Stephanie. And that's why anyone who was around back then, can never take HHH seriously, because he did not get over in a natural way, without the behind the scenes usery, unlike Austin, Rock, Hart, and even Michaels' rises. Yeah, Michaels started politicking later on into his career, but he was already quite big and respected, with performances like the Ladder Match. HHH is the only one who's been using, brow-nosing, and politicking from DAY ONE. And it never stopped.

Aside from many other reasons, it's just hard to be considered a GOAT, when you know of all the behind the scenes machinations that had to take place in order to even get into that position. Most others got there through their sheer talent, maybe with just a slight bit of scheming on the side. With HHH, it was a whole hellavu a lot of scheming, plotting, and self-serving bs. From day one.
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Old 05-17-2013, 03:35 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: Did Vince Russo think of Triple H as a top guy

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilOlMe View Post
This was Triple H's ascension to the top, for those who like to have amnesia (or are unaware), and forget that he's been doing the Stephanie type of shit, long before Stephanie. None of his rise was EVER through natural means.

*Get yourself in good with Nash & Michaels, who were essentially running the show, by brown-nosing and carrying their bags.

*Slide your way into Michaels' meetings with Vince, and start telling Vince what to do with top stars (while you're still completely unover in your Hunter Hearst incarnation).

*Start using that position to try to fuck over your competition. [See the note in Bret Hart's book about how HHH tried to use Bret to knock off The Rock, after The Rock was booked to win the IC title from HHH...HHH then tried to use his power to book Bret knocking off The Rock for the IC title, but Bret refused to beat The Rock, because he didn't want to stop The Rock's rise, and saw it exactly for what it was [HHH trying to fuck over The Rock] and this infuriated HHH. The Rock in his book wrote about other wrestlers trying to tear him down, and credits Bret for being generous and looking out for him. He also praises the other big names at the time, with Shawn being the glaring omission.]

*Bret also refers to HHH & Shawn constantly badmouthing The Rock to Vince, claiming that he was stiff, missing spots, etc., etc. You can't write it off as just Bret, since this is the Kliq's M.O. Countless other wrestlers have talked about this being the way the Kliq would knock off wrestlers that they didn't like (Shane Douglas, Vader, etc.), using those same exact words. This was a concerted effort on their part.

*HHH tries to get himself booked into beating Bret cleanly at a house show. Bret is at the top of his game at this point and HHH is...HHH.

*Shawn attributes most of the Montreal stuff to HHH, in both his book, and the Greatest Rivalries DVD. So we have one of the biggest situations ever in wrestling, with only four people in on it, and making decisions on it...Shawn, Vince, Jerry Brisco and....HHH. Wtf? Who is he? And HHH was the shot-caller! Amazing. And the worst part is, Vince & Bret had already come to an agreement, with Shawn onboard, until HHH talked him out of it (Bret beating Shawn in Canada, and then dropping the belt to him cleanly in Springfield). Regardless of the merits of the Montreal situation, the fact that HHH was even in on a high level discussion like that, is unbelievable. And goes to show you how far he was using his behind the scenes climbing.

*HHH remains on the booking committee, and presumably after Shawn retires due to injury, is the only active wrestler in this position. Coincidence that he would rise into the position that he did, while Austin & Rock attained it through natural means (and The Rock attaining it despite HHH trying to use his positioning to knock him off)?

*Dumps his long-term girlfriend, for someone who is the complete polar opposite of her, both physically & personality-wise. Keys to the kingdom set for life.

And suddenly HHH is one of the GOATs...supposedly. And a new generation will claim that "hey, he did it before Stephanie", not understanding that it never happened organically. There was politicking and "Stephanies" long before Stephanie. And that's why anyone who was around back then, can never take HHH seriously, because he did not get over in a natural way, without the behind the scenes usery, unlike Austin, Rock, Hart, and even Michaels' rises. Yeah, Michaels started politicking later on into his career, but he was already quite big and respected, with performances like the Ladder Match. HHH is the only one who's been using, brow-nosing, and politicking from DAY ONE. And it never stopped.

Aside from many other reasons, it's just hard to be considered a GOAT, when you know of all the behind the scenes machinations that had to take place in order to even get into that position. Most others got there through their sheer talent, maybe with just a slight bit of scheming on the side. With HHH, it was a whole hellavu a lot of scheming, plotting, and self-serving bs. From day one.

Thank you, very much.
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