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**JOAL.com** · 03-02-2013, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birthday_massacre

I didnt say Vince WANTS competition, I said competition is good for business and makes your product (in this case WWE) BETTER. He NEEDS it to light a fire under him.

It's just like with apple and the iphone, how the iphone was the lead for years then along came android and now android is giving the iphone a run for its money and has even over taken the iphone. its just going to make the apple iphone better because it knows it cant half ass a product and get complacement.

in business competition is always good. Why is it the best time for wrestling was during the monday night wars? Its because competition was so strong, it made both products better.
That is how business works.

Or you know, Vince could just try harder.

Here is the thing though, COMPANIES DONT WANT COMPETITION

Jesus Christ, the ultimate target for every businessman is always a monopoly

Y2JFAN811 · 03-02-2013, 04:39 PM

I love the Internet

birthday_massacre · 03-02-2013, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redead

Or you know, Vince could just try harder.

Here is the thing though, COMPANIES DONT WANT COMPETITION

Jesus Christ, the ultimate target for every businessman is always a monopoly

You really are missing the point. You really should read what I am saying.

I am not saying companies WANT competition. I am saying competition is GOOD FOR BUSINESS because it makes them work harder to be better than their competition.
If you have a monopoly on something and zero competition, you can just put out crap and everyone has to buy it and deal with it. How is that good for the consumer? The consumer suffers when there is no competition.

It's not. That is also why there is a law against monopolies so one company cant own everything then just do what they want and everyone has to buy an inferior product.

If you really don't think having TNA compete with the WWE would be a good thing for wrestling then you really do not know what you are talking about

**JOAL.com** · 03-02-2013, 04:45 PM

Why would Vince care about the consumer?

Infact, why would any company care about the consumer

you said

Quote:

Vince needs TNA to be a threat to WWE,

But he doesnt. Why would he possibly need that? He already buried the territories and WCW, I think hes done and wants to enjoy cruise control

Wooo!! · 03-02-2013, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birthday_massacre

Ziggler is way better than Angle right now. Angle is nearing retirement, Ziggler is just starting. I would much rather have Ziggler on my roster than Angle.

Thank you for your opinoin, lets keep this civil.

I am not saying Ziggler is bad in anyway, lets clear that up. He is amongst the best in WWE at the moment.

HOWEVER....

Ziggler is not better then Angle, IMO.

His in-ring ability is good, but he bumps far too much, to the point of it just looking horrid & ridiculous. Remember, selling is very much different to what Zig does.

People will say 'HBK does the same' which is correct, he does.

The difference being HBK has bags full of psychology in-ring, he knew/knows when a match warranted it.

Zig, does it every match.

Take the infamous Monkey Flip, all he needed to do to sell it in a decent way is to grimace in pain after the move, maybe hold the small of his back. Gets the point over it hurt him, makes all involved look good.

Instead, we get some ridiculous flips, floundering around like a fish. You have to tell a story in a match, this is what gets people excited. A bump like that takes a potential 4 star match & makes it akin to a circus, over the top for the sake of being over the top.

I have felt Angle's selling to be fairly consistent, while not the best it's good.

I may speak for myself, but, i have lost any interest in the MitB simply because the cash in has taken FAR too long.

You can easily name Angle's gimmicks. American Olympic Hero, which needs no work because thats what he is.

I do not watch TNA all to often, so i can't comment with any certainty in that regard, but it seems to be a kinda 'cyborg' gimmick. Regardless, even during his time with the WWE he showed humour & he is ok/good on the mic, while reshaping himself, allbeit slightly. The focus with Angle, i feel, was/is in-ring ability.

I couldn't even begin to tell you what Zigglers gimmick is. It is lost on me.

Psychology is the single most important thing when it comes to a match, two brawlers can make a match look better then two high-flyers. Selling is incorporated into this. So if you sell far to much, bump far to much or generally make moves look stupid, it ruins the whole match.

I look forward to your response, pal.

birthday_massacre · 03-02-2013, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redead

Why would Vince care about the consumer?

Infact, why would any company care about the consumer

you said

But he doesnt. Why would he possibly need that? He already buried the territories and WCW, I think hes done and wants to enjoy cruise control

He needs it for that kick in the ass to make the WWE product again. Saying Vince needs and wants something are two different things.
Its like when you say OH so and so needs a smack in the head.

The only problem with being on cruise control as you say, is if Vince does that for too long and loses more fans and even more ratings he could be out of business. How would that be good for Vince?

Saying why should Vince care about the consumer is a huge no no. He should care about the consumer because they are the ones who are making him money. Your attitude is everything that is wrong with business.

The consumer should always be #1, that is the first rule of business, without them you dont have a business.

MrsFoley'sBabyBoy · 03-02-2013, 04:55 PM

Roode vs Ziggler and Punk vs Aries...please and thank you

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App

**JOAL.com** · 03-02-2013, 04:55 PM

No. It isnt. The number 1 rule of business is to make money

You just pretend you give a shit about the consumer long enough to take their money. After that nobody gives a fuck what happens to them

Vince doesnt need to try because he found a sustainable cycle to generate a ton of money over a long time.

birthday_massacre · 03-02-2013, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wooo!!

Thank you for your opinoin, lets keep this civil.

I am not saying Ziggler is bad in anyway, lets clear that up. He is amongst the best in WWE at the moment.

HOWEVER....

Ziggler is not better then Angle, IMO.

His in-ring ability is good, but he bumps far too much, to the point of it just looking horrid & ridiculous. Remember, selling is very much different to what Zig does.

People will say 'HBK does the same' which is correct, he does.

The difference being HBK has bags full of psychology in-ring, he knew/knows when a match warranted it.

Zig, does it every match.

Take the infamous Monkey Flip, all he needed to do to sell it in a decent way is to grimace in pain after the move, maybe hold the small of his back. Gets the point over it hurt him, makes all involved look good.

Instead, we get some ridiculous flips, floundering around like a fish. You have to tell a story in a match, this is what gets people excited. A bump like that takes a potential 4 star match & makes it akin to a circus, over the top for the sake of being over the top.

I have felt Angle's selling to be fairly consistent, while not the best it's good.

I may speak for myself, but, i have lost any interest in the MitB simply because the cash in has taken FAR too long.

You can easily name Angle's gimmicks. American Olympic Hero, which needs no work because thats what he is.

I do not watch TNA all to often, so i can't comment with any certainty in that regard, but it seems to be a kinda 'cyborg' gimmick. Regardless, even during his time with the WWE he showed humour & he is ok/good on the mic, while reshaping himself, allbeit slightly. The focus with Angle, i feel, was/is in-ring ability.

I couldn't even begin to tell you what Zigglers gimmick is. It is lost on me.

Psychology is the single most important thing when it comes to a match, two brawlers can make a match look better then two high-flyers. Selling is incorporated into this. So if you sell far to much, bump far to much or generally make moves look stupid, it ruins the whole match.

I look forward to your response, pal.

Now you said you do not watch TNA that much, I do not either. I probably watch it as much as you. A few matches here and there. But are you talking about Angle now or an Angle in his prime. I would take an Angle in his prime over Ziggler sure. But Angle is one injury away from being done or even paralyzed.

If you were starting a wrestling company, would you really choose Angle over Ziggler now?

Ziggler is great at making the other guy look great by putting him over, not a lot of wrestlers can do that. I can count on one hand how many can do that in the WWE (Ziggler, Bryan, Punk and Ambrose).

Maybe since the WWE is jobbing Ziggler so much he just says screw it and over bumps everything. Ziggler when he wants to sells perfectly. Its just like when HBK fought Hogan he oversold for the match.

Angle was great in his prime and he is still pretty good, but IMO Ziggler at this point is just bette and has a huge upside. If the WWE would book Ziggler like they book Cena or even how TNA books Angle, maybe you would see things differently.

But Ziggler is just as good on the mic as Angle IMO and Ziggler still has a lot to learn yes, but just look at how far Kurt as come since being a rookie.