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Old 01-11-2013, 10:14 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ziggler deserves better than the world title.

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Originally Posted by Queen Akasha View Post
Yes, he's gotten some "Let's Go Ziggler" and he gets a decent crowd reaction but if he were over enough, I'm sure he would've cashed in already. I just don't see what makes Ziggler a sure fire main eventer. He doesn't have that "it" factor that makes me want to watch him.
TBH, him getting "Let's go Ziggler" chants is counterproductive, because he's heel and people need to be booing the shit out of him. But he can't get them to, because a lot of the stuff he does screams face. That's why people are indifferent to him, he can be in that upper mid-card/lower main event spot, but right now he needs to find his niche still because it still doesn't seem like he has a legit character. But to be fair which superstar does?
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:16 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ziggler deserves better than the world title.

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Originally Posted by Walk-In View Post
Neither do I. I would say neither do most. He oversells & he's a heel, so a lot internet fans love him, but a lot of internet fans used to love AJ Lee too & look how quickly they turned on her. I would argue that he is far from "a complete package." I think he has a really generic look. I think his promos need a lot of work. So much work that at this point, it would be easier to just get him a mouthpiece. Also, contrary to what a lot of people on-line seem to think, he's really not a great worker. He is a great bumper, for sure, but his offense is pretty bad & as a heel, he's in control for the majority of matches, so that's a problem. I'm not saying he's bad, don't get me wrong. I just don't see money when I see him is all. He is a great upper midcarder & I think he's in a really good spot right now.

Maybe his babyface comebacks, if he turns, would be better than his heel control segments, I don't know, but he seems awkward to me. A lot of it, I think, is just working within the TV limits. He shines more on PPV for sure.

And I won't even talk about charisma as that seems to be a subjective term nowadays. I'll just say that in his current incarnation, people aren't buying tickets to watch Dolph Ziggler.
Overselling is selling, just like overacting is acting. Actors don't act real, they act with outrageous amounts of emotion, all of them do. I specifically love Ziggler because he reminds me exactly of the Rock: he's constantly overacting. Screaming when in a submission, flopping around like a fish after being poked in the eye. Laughing and taunting DURING SUBMISSION MANEUVERS (sounds easy, but its an edge; other guys just don't do it) Remember when the Rock took the GTS? He was crawling around the ring convulsing. Remember when he took the stunner? He flipped backwards and flopped like a fish. Wrestling is unbearably fake, you NEED to oversell and overact to give us something entertaining. The punches look like crap, so if you don't throw your head backwards when the punch hits, then all the audience gets is a fake punch; overselling IS the product. Seriously, I love watching Ziggler's overselling, its SELLING. That's just how it is. Any less than overselling is boring, fake wrestling. We pay for that acting because the impacts themselves don't look real.

Also, the reason his moveset isn't great is because he's a heel. If I'm not mistaken, faces are supposed to be the strong brutes who use suplexes and flashy moves to impress the crowd; the heel is never supposed to do something that makes the crowd go "Yay for you for performing that challenging maneuver." The heel is supposed to dodge his opponent, so the face falls flat on the mat; he's supposed to escape the ring then trip the face when the face follows him outside, or throw him into the barricade; when the heel has momentum, he's supposed to use cruel-looking submission holds and kick and stomp at the downed opponent. He's not supposed to look impressive. The fact that Ziggler does dropkicks as much as he does surprises me. This is why WWE guys criticize a lot of indy wrestling as being spotfests and not telling stories (not that those matches aren't great in their own right), cuz if bad guys look awesome and deserving of wins, then they're not bad guys (according to that idea; spotfests can be awesome).
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ziggler deserves better than the world title.

I don't really want to argue with you, man. Sorry. It's subjective.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:39 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ziggler deserves better than the world title.

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Originally Posted by Walk-In View Post
I don't really want to argue with you, man. Sorry. It's subjective.
You're absolutely right about that, completely subjective.. If you don't like Ziggler, he's failing as far as you and other ppl who agree with you. Absolutely. Don't intend to "convince you" as far as the proper way to enjoy wrestling. Lol I cheer for heels most of the time .
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:16 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ziggler deserves better than the world title.

I'm a Ziggler fan. I believe for him to take that next step to be a permanent star, he needs to be more consistent on the mic. Sometimes he knocks it out of the park with a promo and really shines, and other times, it's just OK. He needs to become more consistent in that regard. Otherwise, he has a good look and he's very talented. He'll be World Champion soon, but it doesn't stop there. He still has many years ahead of him and probably a few WWE Championship runs in him in the future.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:42 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ziggler deserves better than the world title.

Once he gets the world title, i'm pretty sure Ziggler will prove himself as a top heel. I agree he's a full package. A few years ago his appearance would have been to small for a main eventer, he just didn't look like one, but now that is stupid. He has the appearance for a main eventer, when he's in the ring with guys like Orton or Cena, he feels around the same size, in fact probably more than Orton.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:00 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ziggler deserves better than the world title.

Wouldn't it be a swerve if he wins the Rumble?
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:50 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ziggler deserves better than the World Title.

so wait...
Ziggler is so amazing... but you dont want him holding the WHC, because you think it is "less prestigious"

Wouldnt you want him to hold the WHC and have him bring LEGITIMACIES back to the WHC?

What is a more impressive accomplishment? Ziggler winning the only title with prestige, thus perpetuating the cycle.
Or winning the other title and bringing its value back???
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:59 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ziggler deserves better than the world title.

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Originally Posted by Queen Akasha View Post
I really don't see main eventer when I see Ziggler. I see upper mid carder and for him, being whc is just fine. He has his moments on the mic and in terms of charisma, he really doesn't seem to command attention from people. In fact, his managers have always been more over than him. He'll get his main event opportunities but he'll probably remain an upper mid carder.
This. He seems like a high quality upper midcarder or pretty weak main eventer.
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Old 01-12-2013, 03:12 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ziggler deserves better than the World Title.

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Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
so wait...
Ziggler is so amazing... but you dont want him holding the WHC, because you think it is "less prestigious"

Wouldnt you want him to hold the WHC and have him bring LEGITIMACIES back to the WHC?

What is a more impressive accomplishment? Ziggler winning the only title with prestige, thus perpetuating the cycle.
Or winning the other title and bringing its value back???
Yeah, and the big gold belt looks better anyway.
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