Why can't bigger names win other titles? - Page 3 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:55 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why can't bigger names win other titles?

They should unify the midcard titles and let there be one Intercontinental champion, just like they did ten years ago. Make it something like the WWECW title, which changed hands between established stars and up-and-coming talent.
Today's midcard isn't that interesting to begin with, and two midcard titles is one too many. And as far as the US Championship goes, "midcard" is really stretching it.

The US championship on the 12 PPVs last year:
- Jack Swagger defeated Justin Gabriel (w/ Hornswoggle) in a quick match
- Santino Marella defeated The Miz in a pre-show match
- Santino Marella defeated Ricardo Rodriguez in a (non-title) tuxedo match
- Antonio Cesaro defeated Santino Marella in a pre-show match
- 4 times, Antonio Cesaro has successfully defended the title (against Zack Ryder, Justin Gabriel and R-Truth twice)
and 4 times, there was no US title match on the card (including Wrestlemania)

The title has basically been reduced to a stepping stone into the midcard. Are we going to see guys like Randy Orton in the US title picture anytime soon? Probably not.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:06 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why can't bigger names win other titles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by heggland0 View Post
They should unify the midcard titles and let there be one Intercontinental champion, just like they did ten years ago. Make it something like the WWECW title, which changed hands between established stars and up-and-coming talent.
Today's midcard isn't that interesting to begin with, and two midcard titles is one too many. And as far as the US Championship goes, "midcard" is really stretching it.

The US championship on the 12 PPVs last year:
- Jack Swagger defeated Justin Gabriel (w/ Hornswoggle) in a quick match
- Santino Marella defeated The Miz in a pre-show match
- Santino Marella defeated Ricardo Rodriguez in a (non-title) tuxedo match
- Antonio Cesaro defeated Santino Marella in a pre-show match
- 4 times, Antonio Cesaro has successfully defended the title (against Zack Ryder, Justin Gabriel and R-Truth twice)
and 4 times, there was no US title match on the card (including Wrestlemania)

The title has basically been reduced to a stepping stone into the midcard. Are we going to see guys like Randy Orton in the US title picture anytime soon? Probably not.
I think that if they had one World Title, then some of the lower main eventers could float between main event and upper midcard.

I don't see anything wrong with there being a lower midcard title, but it shouldn't be the United States Title. They should bring back the European Title or make a Television Title.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:07 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why can't bigger names win other titles?

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Originally Posted by bme View Post
A midcarder beats a main-eventer for a midcard title, congratulations you're still a midcarder now holding a midcard title. Unless a push into the main event is in the near future the win is meaningless. No former world champion should be competing for lesser titles i don't care if you're Cena or Swagger, you've held the top title in the company and shouldn't be competing for anything less.
What the hell are you talking about? Wrestling isn't about staying in the same position all the time. If EVERYBODY who had held either of the two main titles can't should never again compete for anything else then there will be a lot of people on the roster with no purpose.

It would essentially make booking shows a very, very awkward job.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:00 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why can't bigger names win other titles?

I feel that this is what they did a few years back with Jericho in a way.

I think that they should've had Shawn Michaels hold the Intercontinental Championship for a little while at least, I mean the last half dozen years or so of his career he held no singles belts. They should have experimented.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:31 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why can't bigger names win other titles?

Main eventers are main eventers period. It doesn't really matter where on any given card they are placed because they could easily close the next show. Card placement isn't as important as people make it seem.


Being in the first match used to be called "curtain jerking" and you were considered low level, now John Cena is in the first match on RAW, is he a "curtain jerker"? Fuck no.


Each show can only have one closer but multiple main events. The WHC is a main event title but it doesn't close PPVs generally but it closes SD and it closes SD house shows. Thus the guy who challenge for it are main eventers...they are apart of a main match on the card. Whether that match is 3rd, 1st, 7th etc doesn't even register, because card placement isn't what counts, what counts is the amount of time given to your match/segment and its level of importance.


I'm all for guys wanting titles because racking up titles should always be the goal. The way the E books things however is that some guys are "bigger/beyond" championships and don't need them. I suppose it creates opportunities for up-n-comers, but what is the point of 2 guys nobody cares about wrestling for a title? Especially when you have a bunch of over, credible talents that aren't doing anything. I'm not lobbying to put the IC strap on John Cena or anything but its a title he's never won, therefore its an avenue unexplored. Besides if you were to do something like that his opponent/match would already have instant heat. One person everybody loves (or in Cena's case hates) vs some up-n-comer trying to make a name for himself. Its a big time rub if nothing else. But instead we get Cena steamrolling the US Champion in 4 minutes....its nonsense, nothing good comes from that.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:50 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why can't bigger names win other titles?

because without a mid card worth pushing whats the point of having a cm punk or a john cena down to a less valuable title. back when wrestling was great the IC US Hardcore and Euro titles were always prestigious, now its like if u not WWE or WHC who gives a shit? its sad. i remember the days of like Hardy Vs RVD ladder match for the IC title BEFORE the main event for the WWC Champ No. 1 contender match. and it was like.... fuck the main event! but they wont do that anymore. and god forbid a title changes hands on a week show
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:08 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why can't bigger names win other titles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonoaries View Post
Main eventers are main eventers period. It doesn't really matter where on any given card they are placed because they could easily close the next show. Card placement isn't as important as people make it seem.


Being in the first match used to be called "curtain jerking" and you were considered low level, now John Cena is in the first match on RAW, is he a "curtain jerker"? Fuck no.


Each show can only have one closer but multiple main events. The WHC is a main event title but it doesn't close PPVs generally but it closes SD and it closes SD house shows. Thus the guy who challenge for it are main eventers...they are apart of a main match on the card. Whether that match is 3rd, 1st, 7th etc doesn't even register, because card placement isn't what counts, what counts is the amount of time given to your match/segment and its level of importance.


I'm all for guys wanting titles because racking up titles should always be the goal. The way the E books things however is that some guys are "bigger/beyond" championships and don't need them. I suppose it creates opportunities for up-n-comers, but what is the point of 2 guys nobody cares about wrestling for a title? Especially when you have a bunch of over, credible talents that aren't doing anything. I'm not lobbying to put the IC strap on John Cena or anything but its a title he's never won, therefore its an avenue unexplored. Besides if you were to do something like that his opponent/match would already have instant heat. One person everybody loves (or in Cena's case hates) vs some up-n-comer trying to make a name for himself. Its a big time rub if nothing else. But instead we get Cena steamrolling the US Champion in 4 minutes....its nonsense, nothing good comes from that.

IMO the WWE only has 7 to 8 guys who are Main Eventors: Punk, Cena, Rock, Orton, HHH, Taker, Lesnar, and possibly Flair.
It has has 3 titles that can Main Event the WWE Championship, WHC, and if Booked Correctly the Tag Team Titles.

Guys like Miz, Bryan, Kane, Seamus, Christian, Del Rio, Show are only Main Eventers when they're in the title Mix. Although Seamus is on the verge on making the jump.

These guys would do fine going down and winning the IC or US Strap. No Cena doesn't need the IC belt. But Daniel Bryan or Christian could def. use it. The past few years we've seen Seamus, Jericho, Flair, Miz, Christian, Rey, JBL and Hart all going after the lesser titles and it didn't hurt them or the strap. I think this actually helps the mid card out.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:15 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why can't bigger names win other titles?

Cuz it makes them look bad and, either way, does nothing for them. CM Punk or Sheamus with the IC belt makes them look worse if anything, whereas there are dozens of guys on the roster who look better with the belt.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:17 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why can't bigger names win other titles?

Imagine CM Punk vs Orton for the IC belt, and now imagine CM Punk vs Orton for no belt. Does the IC belt make you care more?
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:17 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Why can't bigger names win other titles?

Also OP, none of the names you mentioned were main carders in 2005/2006.

Benoit was a former main carder, but serves as an example of my gripe against post-main event booking. Benoit was the world champion for a generous amount of time, he lost the title to Randy Orton at Summerslam, one month later he's in the opening tag match with William Regal against Ric Flair and Batista, a match few cared about at all. That's a good way to establish that he's no longer important since there was only ever a Triple H storyline, not a Chris Benoit one, he was just a participant. So they took Benoit and Regal, two loose ends from the Summer of Aich and pitted them against two guys nobody gave a damn about.

Booker T was only ever a main carder in WCW at that point, his one singles match for the world title was treated as a joke more or less, same thing with the WCW title as a whole during the invasion period. Booker was four years removed from main eventing for real and was a midcarder.
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