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post #81 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 10:07 PM
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Re: Is this the worst ever period in the WWE

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Originally Posted by Berzerker's Beard View Post
I fucking hate the don't like it, then don't watch argument.

Every single one of us here have a special relationship with Wrestling. It's not a need like food or water but it no doubt fills some sort of void. I would imagine we're all mostly adult males here or close to it and I would also imagine most of us have been watching since a young age. The fact of the matter is that we are all "programmed" to watch Wrestling... for whatever reason. We continue to watch the WWE because it's pretty much the only thing available.

Imagine you were traveling on the road for several hours on end and you were absolutely starving, but by chance you happen to stumble across the only diner for miles. What great luck right? Only thing is once you sit down, you realize that you hate everything on the menu. Would you still eat there? Would it be fair if I told you, "Don't like the food? Then don't eat it?"

Chances are you'll eat it, you just won't like it. That's sort of where we're at with WWE. We watch out of obligation. It doesn't mean we don't have the right to complain because it sucks dick.
Well, no, I have to completely disagree.

Using your own analogy I say that if you're in the same situation each week where you're starving and eating at the same restaurant where you do not enjoy any of the food on offer, then why don't you do whatever you can to, so to speak, discover other restaurants?

If you're comparing the situation of watching it to being starving with no alternative for food then I have to say that maybe it's time for you to attempt to discover something new, especially if you are forcing yourself to eat it/watch it. I feel like my interest in WWE has grown due to my mind's expansion towards and discovering different forms of wrestling. I think if we only had access to World Wrestling Entertainment then we would burn out.

There is so much wrestling available online, even on Youtube, that I just cannot understand why people persevere whilst not enjoying what WWE has to offer. There are just no parts of me that can understand why someone will carry on not enjoying something. If anybody compares wrestling to being in love and constantly being hurt then I think they take it all too serious.


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Originally Posted by Walk-In View Post
YES! Someone hasn't brought up the "if you hate it why do you watch?" argument in almost two whole days! Finally another reason to copy/paste my rant!

I'm going to be completely honest: WWE Monday Night RAW sucks. It's bad television. It has been that way for at least a year, sans one or two moments, which don't make up for the ridiculous amount of time given to us that is just terrible programming but I would argue it has been that way since about 2005.

That being said, the one constant question that comes up over the years is "if it sucks, why do you watch it?" and then people/posters try to make comparisons to other television shows like it's the same thing. "If Will & Grace sucks, would you keep watching it?" It's not the same thing. Will & Grace doesn't dictate, control and influence the ENTIRE industry that it is in.

You know why, even when I know that it will be bad, that I continue to tune-in to WWE Monday Night RAW, without fail, damn near every single week? Because I am a wrestling fan and, like it or not, RAW dictates the wrestling world. It is the wrestling show. The A-show from the A-company. Without RAW, you're out of the bubble for a week. If I miss RAW, I don't feel like my opinion is as valid around the internet on various message forums. Without RAW, a lot of the podcasts and radio shows that I listen to don't make as much sense or are talking about things that I didn't see. Without RAW, I always feel like I'm a week behind and can't catch up until I watch RAW.

Also, there's always the possibility, even if it seems to get slimmer and slimmer over the years, that WWE does something incredible that you don't want to miss live. I missed the C.M. Punk shoot interview when it happened live and I kicked myself for missing it for quite some time. I had to watch it later on YouTube and it wasn't the same. I missed the immediate excitement over it and all my friends talking excitedly about it. Even just that first initial fifteen minute rush that came post-show, I hated myself for fucking up. I saw the debut of The Nexus live and it was great. I don't want to miss moments like those, when they happen live, regardless of how it plays out down the road.

I have been watching wrestling since, oh, 1987 or so I guess. I have been posting/talking about wrestling on-line since the end of 1998. Over that time, from 1987 to today, I have seen a lot of wrestling. WCW, ECW, TNA, AWA, NWA, Mid-South, Smoky Mountain, Memphis, AJPW, NJPW, CMLL, AAA, NOAH, FMW, XPW, Shimmer, SMASH, shit from the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's... you name it. The one constant is that RAW will be on TV on Monday night and for better or worse, most wrestling fans will be watching it.

THAT is why I watch RAW.

It's the same with pro-sports. If you're a fan of say, the Chicago Cubs, do you just stop supporting them when they have a losing season? Of course not.
This to me makes me think that you watch Raw because you are used to it, it's a constant as you say, and not because you are a fan. Or rather, you are a fan but clinging onto hope that you can change by watching it. I don't think people realise that watching Raw and tweeting about how bad it is will look to WWE that there are the same number of people watching Raw and tweeting about it each week.

It's 2013 now, so there are people who could have wasted over 100 hours of their life last year in the hope that they don't miss something. To me, I would rather be doing something I enjoy. I have missed things that I've regretted not tuning in, but in our day and age we get it when we want it. It's not like missing Hogan slamming Andre and waiting weeks/months to see it. If I hear from a friend that somethings happened that I have missed, I can go at that moment and see it. You cannot completely miss seeing something in 2013, you can only miss seeing it on your television live with the option of watching it within the hour. If you honestly feel that you have to spend 100 hours of your life for 30 minutes of glory a year then I know this is an argument I can't win.

People are sick of the "why do you watch it if you don't enjoy it?" argument, of course they are, if you have your own 'go-to multi-paragraph argument at hand at all times' then you must be, but the question will always be apt when people watch it, don't enjoy it, and then tell everyone who enjoys it how bad it is all of the time. It's like we are wrong for enjoying it. Maybe I'm easy going, maybe I'm easily pleased, but I will have to say that in 100 lifetimes I would rather enjoy something for what it is, that not enjoy something for what it isn't, yet with both still spend most of my time on it. Talking about feeling lost for not watching Raw due to being unable to speak on forums and podcasts makes sense, of course, but there's far too many people who think that we who enjoy it are wrong. That's what I have an issue with and what will always be countered with the 'If you don't enjoy it, why watch it?" argument.

I have, and still do, played for and supported teams that went through tremendously bad periods, but the difference I didn't have the option to choose a new seperate team offering something new to support.
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post #82 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 11:02 PM
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Re: Is this the worst ever period in the WWE

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Originally Posted by Icon_Vs_Icon View Post
HBK was "the man" in 96, Orton at no point in his career was the top guy so i would give the nod to HBK not to mention he ended up being a far bigger star/icon.

Cena stature is weird bc while hes the "it" guy of this generation WWE had to really force him down our throat to get him there. Bret was beloved as a face during that time and wasnt getting booed by half the crowd YET. I would also argue Brets overall legacy is better than Cena.

1.Cena>Bret.


2.Randy Orton by 2012 has done it all.

He has won Royal Rumbles.

He has won 10 World Titles.

He has been a part of one of the greatest stables of all time.

He has had WM matches with Rock,Undertaker,HHH,Cena,Foley,CM Punk etc




Shawn Michaels went on to be one of the greatest superstars in history but I don't think HBK by mid-1996 had achieved much more than Randy Orton by 2012.
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post #83 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 11:06 PM
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2009 was way worse

Top 10 all time favorites:

Stone Cold Steve Austin
The Undertaker
Shawn Michaels
Chris Jericho
Brock Lesnar
Kurt Angle
HHH
Edge
CM Punk
Kane (98-04)
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post #84 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 11:13 PM
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Re: Is this the worst ever period in the WWE

Of course he didn't. In '96, HBK was just in his fourth year of his singles career (went singles in '92). Orton debuted on WWE TV in 2002. So, in 2012 he was in his 10th year already. So, yeah, Randy achieved more title reigns in 10 years than HBK did in 4 years. Although, it should be pointed out that Vince wanted to put the belt on HBK numerous times in his 2002-2010 run, but HBK turned him down every time. To Shawn, the world champ had to go to house shows to defend the belt, and at that time in his life he'd rather spend that time at home with his family. Vince still wanted to put the belt on him, but Shawn didn't think it was right, so he didn't take it.

If you're judging by title reigns, then sure. Title reigns these last 7 years or so are short (except for Punks recent title reign, of course) compared to the title reigns of the 80s and 90s. Back then, the standard minimum title reign was 5 months (in the 90s). Cena is like 1000 time world champion, Orton is like a 500 time world champion. There is a reason why the titles mean next to nothing nowadays.


Credit to CHAMPviaDQ for Signature & Avatar
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post #85 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 11:14 PM
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Re: Is this the worst ever period in the WWE

Visually colorful Bret Hart was a very big fish in a pond that was drying up. Same with HBK.

Bland but talented Randy Orton is a medium sized cog in a huge international machine.

Merchandise model John Cena is a huge and very important cog in the same machine.



None of them played a major role in a relevant WWE, like Hogan, Piper, Andre, Rock, Austin, Foley and DX (collectively) did.
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post #86 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 11:20 PM
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Re: Is this the worst ever period in the WWE

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Originally Posted by ShowStopper '97 View Post
Of course he didn't. In '96, HBK was just in his fourth year of his singles career (went singles in '92). Orton debuted on WWE TV in 2002. So, in 2012 he was in his 10th year already. So, yeah, Randy achieved more title reigns in 10 years than HBK did in 4 years. Although, it should be pointed out that Vince wanted to put the belt on HBK numerous times in his 2002-2010 run, but HBK turned him down every time. To Shawn, the world champ had to go to house shows to defend the belt, and at that time in his life he'd rather spend that time at home with his family. Vince still wanted to put the belt on him, but Shawn didn't think it was right, so he didn't take it.

If you're judging by title reigns, then sure. Title reigns these last 7 years or so are short (except for Punks recent title reign, of course) compared to the title reigns of the 80s and 90s. Back then, the standard minimum title reign was 5 months (in the 90s). Cena is like 1000 time world champion, Orton is like a 500 time world champion. There is a reason why the titles mean next to nothing nowadays.
.

I am not saying HBK wasn't a star back then.All I am saying Orton has achieved much more and a bigger star in the eyes of a casual fan since he has been for a longer time.


My point is simple-The star power around 1995-1996 is worse than what it is present today.That's it
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post #87 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 11:29 PM
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Re: Is this the worst ever period in the WWE

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Originally Posted by austin316 G.O.A.T View Post
.

I am not saying HBK wasn't a star back then.All I am saying Orton has achieved much more and a bigger star in the eyes of a casual fan since he has been for a longer time.


My point is simple-The star power around 1995-1996 is worse than what it is present today.That's it
I see. I agree that Orton has accomplished more 10 years into his WWE singles career than Shawn did 4 years into his singles career. It's almost impossible not to. 10 years is more than twice the time period that 4 years is.

As far as the stars in 95-96 to today, I think it's pretty much about the same. If you're talking about cross-over appeal, no one in today's WWE is a cross-over star and no one in 95-96 was either. But I'll give today the edge. With all of the social media that is available today it is almost impossible for WWE to not be more relevant in the eyes of non-wrestling fans today than it was in 95-96. There was no social media back then and a very limited internet compared to what it is now.


Credit to CHAMPviaDQ for Signature & Avatar

Last edited by ShowStopper; 01-01-2013 at 11:31 PM.
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post #88 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 11:31 PM
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Re: Is this the worst ever period in the WWE

lets just pray for the year 2013, to the good things to come
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post #89 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 11:41 PM
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Re: Is this the worst ever period in the WWE

I can't be the only one that remembers Raw = Guesthosts, can I?

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post #90 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 11:48 PM
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Re: Is this the worst ever period in the WWE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berzerker's Beard View Post
I fucking hate the don't like it, then don't watch argument.

Every single one of us here have a special relationship with Wrestling. It's not a need like food or water but it no doubt fills some sort of void. I would imagine we're all mostly adult males here or close to it and I would also imagine most of us have been watching since a young age. The fact of the matter is that we are all "programmed" to watch Wrestling... for whatever reason. We continue to watch the WWE because it's pretty much the only thing available.
Yeah, me too. It's annoying. Especially when they try to justify it like they're turned over some new fucking leaf or something. I watch it because I'm a wrestling fan & because I still enjoy it. It's not even just about the show. It's about the week long discussion of the show afterward. The talking with friends about the show, even when it sucks. The listening to podcasts to see how many people agree (or disagree) with my opinion. It's fun & it's a hobby.
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