What if Antonio Cesaro was in Vladimir Kozlov's Position in 2009 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:46 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default What if Antonio Cesaro was in Vladimir Kozlov's Position in 2009

I just have this thought that if Claudio was actually signed with the WWE in 06-07ish before being released, what if he was given Kozlov's position in the Fued between Triple H and Jeff Hardy. Would he of thrived and been a huge player in todays WWE? or struggled to find his feet in WWE waters without hypothetically 5 years of Indy wrestling experience under his belt (Claudio was signed in 2011)
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:56 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: What if Antonio Cesaro was in Vladimir Kozlov's Position in 2009

If Kozlov was gonna be big, they would have made sure it happened. Instead, they lost interest. It happens all the time. No wrestlers are truly at fault for their careers. In wrestling, you play a part. You don't "win" anything. You aim to be a star attraction and make money.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:35 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: What if Antonio Cesaro was in Vladimir Kozlov's Position in 2009

Wrestlers who get pushed very fast, 9 out of 10 times, never stick around. It's just a case of them giving you the ball and you proving to them that you cannot run with it.

John Cena is one of the few examples of a guy who was heavily pushed from day one and managed to run with it. Morrisson, Kozlov, Carlito, Masters were all guys who heavily pushed from the beginning but for some reason failed to do anything with their momentum.

This notion that "Creative drops the balls" is one that yes, I could on some level agree with but at the end of the day it's talent. Creative's job isn't to make you a star, that's your job. They give you a foundation and you build on it. A lot of guys have trouble doing that.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:40 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: What if Antonio Cesaro was in Vladimir Kozlov's Position in 2009

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Originally Posted by sharkboy22 View Post
Wrestlers who get pushed very fast, 9 out of 10 times, never stick around. It's just a case of them giving you the ball and you proving to them that you cannot run with it.

John Cena is one of the few examples of a guy who was heavily pushed from day one and managed to run with it. Morrisson, Kozlov, Carlito, Masters were all guys who heavily pushed from the beginning but for some reason failed to do anything with their momentum.

This notion that "Creative drops the balls" is one that yes, I could on some level agree with but at the end of the day it's talent. Creative's job isn't to make you a star, that's your job. They give you a foundation and you build on it. A lot of guys have trouble doing that.
Which is why I cannot wait for Ryback to fail. The guy is untalented, ugly and only over because of a catchphrase. The catchphrase is brilliant, and he does not deserve it.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: What if Antonio Cesaro was in Vladimir Kozlov's Position in 2009

didn't kozlov beat underaker clean aswell?, i could of sworn i watched it on smackdown or something

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Old 12-30-2012, 10:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: What if Antonio Cesaro was in Vladimir Kozlov's Position in 2009

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Originally Posted by silverspirit2001 View Post
Which is why I cannot wait for Ryback to fail. The guy is untalented, ugly and only over because of a catchphrase. The catchphrase is brilliant, and he does not deserve it.
Over and untalented could never go in the same sentence, my friend. try again. But if he's over, he's over. Now 6 months from now if the crowd's sitting dead on their ass for him then maybe we could declare him a failure. But as it stands, WWE has given him the ball and he's clearing running all the way with it. The fact that he lost 3 PPVs all after each other and is still this over says something.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:46 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: What if Antonio Cesaro was in Vladimir Kozlov's Position in 2009

I'd imagine if Cesaro was thrust right into the main-event with Triple H he would've done enough to warrant his spot (lets be honest, Cesaro is worth 10 Kozlov's), but I don't think it's any enviable position for any talent to debut in the World Title scene.

Few talents can pull off an immediate debut in the main-event. Brock Lesnar was one of the very few. In fact, he might be the only guy in the past 10 years that immediately and instantly cemented himself as a true main-eventer. That kind of push has killed a lot more talent than it's created.

Cesaro is in a much healthier position at the moment than he would've been 3-4 years ago. I certainly wouldn't swap Kozlov's position for Cesaro's. Slow build is generally more effective, especially for a wrestling heavy talent like Cesaro.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: What if Antonio Cesaro was in Vladimir Kozlov's Position in 2009

Meh, imo, I still think that by mid 2013 Cesaro will fall into a hole of irrelevancy. I could be wrong but I can't help but not get that feeling every time I see him on my TV. It's like "Oh look, another guy WWE's pushing to the moon in no time. *insert sarcasm* These guys usually turn out to be great *end sarcasm*

That and he's just boring. Does nothing for me. I liked him at first but that was just bandwagoning honestly.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: What if Antonio Cesaro was in Vladimir Kozlov's Position in 2009

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Originally Posted by sharkboy22 View Post
Over and untalented could never go in the same sentence, my friend. try again. But if he's over, he's over. Now 6 months from now if the crowd's sitting dead on their ass for him then maybe we could declare him a failure. But as it stands, WWE has given him the ball and he's clearing running all the way with it. The fact that he lost 3 PPVs all after each other and is still this over says something.
OK, put it another way, the catchphrase is over, not the wrestler. What has he done which has impressed you. Mic work? Great wrestling?

Hell, if you had given Kozlov this phrase, he would be a mega star by now. Even Chris Master's would be over with it. People love chanting, it is the chant which makes the occasion special.

That's why Cody's Mustache will be the best thing he has ever done, it will put him over. Not his in ring talent. Would Bryan be over without his Yes/No chants? Maybe, but not to the degree he is now.

In fact, the only wrestler over, because of talent, is Ziggler, with his signature selling.


Much as I hate to say it, but Pyro is mostly correct - wrestling matters far less nowadays.
Except when Bryan and Ziggler put on an exhibition - even the crowd can recognize pure brilliance when they see it. And with Ziggler getting a push, and Bryan well established, we just may see the hottest and most enjoyable feud for years on 2013.

As long as the WWE does not screw it up. (fat chance)
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: What if Antonio Cesaro was in Vladimir Kozlov's Position in 2009

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Originally Posted by silverspirit2001 View Post
OK, put it another way, the catchphrase is over, not the wrestler. What has he done which has impressed you. Mic work? Great wrestling?

Hell, if you had given Kozlov this phrase, he would be a mega star by now. Even Chris Master's would be over with it. People love chanting, it is the chant which makes the occasion special.

That's why Cody's Mustache will be the best thing he has ever done, it will put him over. Not his in ring talent. Would Bryan be over without his Yes/No chants? Maybe, but not to the degree he is now.

In fact, the only wrestler over, because of talent, is Ziggler, with his signature selling.


Much as I hate to say it, but Pyro is mostly correct - wrestling matters far less nowadays.
Except when Bryan and Ziggler put on an exhibition - even the crowd can recognize pure brilliance when they see it. And with Ziggler getting a push, and Bryan well established, we just may see the hottest and most enjoyable feud for years on 2013.

As long as the WWE does not screw it up. (fat chance)
Newsflash, as much as it fucking hpains me to say it, Pyro is right when it comes to one thing. Characters, catchphrases and the other little things are what gets over. Wrestling never did. There's this stupid argument posters in the Other Section like to propose. Wrestling is a fake sport not a fake sport. What kind of fucking none sense is that?

There's a reason why pure wrestling never drew and never put asses in seats. No one wants to watch grown me pretend that they're actually chain grappling. If I want to see that I'll watch amateur wrestling. I don't want want to see guys choreograph an amateur wrestling match. No one wants to see that. Well there's obviously a market for it, but it ain't where the money's at!

Look at the boom periods of wrestling. They were always marked by a greater emphasis on characters and catchphrases rather than the in-ring product. Then again what do we measure the in-ring aspect by? Chin locks and head locks? Wrist locks and leg locks? Or is it the excitement, the drama, the art that is wrestling. I look at Hogan/Andre and hear people call it a one star match or shit, as meltzer puts it, a negative four star match. The crowd was loving every moment of it, so is it really a negative four star match? A lot of wrestling talk trash about the likes of Junkyard Dog and Hacksaw Jim Duggan because "they weren't in-ring technicians" who gives a fuck? They had the most important thing in wrestling. The only thing that matters. Character, personality, charisma. These are the things that matter in wrestling. Those characteristics make a great wrestler. If being an in-ring technician made you a great wrestler than Dean Malenko would have been a huge draw, which obviously is nor the fucking case. To show how much character matters. Those 5 star Eddie Guerrero/Dean Malenko matches? They were booed out the building by the ECW crowd. Why? Cause no one wants to watch two grown ass men choreograph a real sport!

Wrestling is a drama. It is the suspension of disbelief. The fans don't automatically suspend their disbelief. Just because I know it's a fake doesn't mean I have to buy into it. Think of movies where the plot is so stupid you say "am I supposed to believe this bullshit?" it's the same thing in wrestling. The workers have to get you to suspend disbelief. And like a great movie, the things that make a great match and make you buy into the match and suspend disbelief are great characters, personalities, charisma and a good story.

I always here this stupid bullshit on this forum that "Oh wrestling doesn't matter to the WWE anymore. All they care about is entertainment. Fuck sports entertainment, I hate that term! It's pro wrestling" No it's a fucking sad attempt to choreograph a real sport. Wrestling has never been about wrestling. Look at the in-ring technicians of yesteryear- ALL JOBBERS. That's what big time companies thought of these in-ring technicians who rather work on their moves and spots and try to choreograph a real sport rather than work on character and develop personality. They thought of them as jobbers.

So yeah Pyro is right and has been for the longest while. I used to be Pyro hater because at the time I thought he was an idiot. I mean he watches wrestling for every but the scientific goodness of a pure choreographed amateur wrestling match? Then I realized just how boring these scientific matches were and CAW like wrestlers were with no personalities. I mean a scientific match is great, once you have a character to go along with it. Example, Flair/Steambaot. And even that wasn't scientific. That was sports entertainment. That was drama!

Anyway, that's not what I realy wanted to reply with. All I wanted to say was that if you think getting over is as easy having a catchphrase, you're wrong. You gotta have the right guy to do it. Picture someone like John Morrisson doing Stone Cold gimmick. There's a reason it got over with Stone Cold and it could have never gotten over with anyone else. Cause he was the only guy that could have gotten it over because he had the look, personality and charisma to get it over. Ryback obviously has charisma and if 12,000 fans chanting "Feed Me More" every week isn't proof of that, well then my friend you can sit here and actually tell yourself it's only because of the catchphrase and anybody else can play the character of Ryback. you keep telling yourself that.
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