Re: Jim Duggan says Wrestling Doesn’t Need Beer-Swilling and Middle Finger Gestures
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Originally Posted by itssoeasy23
The guy has been wrestling for over 30 years. I'm pretty sure he knows a whole hell of a lot more than you do.
And he's right, wrestling doesn't need obscene gestures and middle fingers to be entertaining. The Attitude Era was, in essence, a fad. It was a way to compete with WCW, to push the envelope to get better viewers and numbers than WCW. It wasn't long-term or anything, after WCW went out of business they went back to "family entertainment," what made WWE famous in the first place.
I don't understand why people are taking what he said so personally, it's his opinion anyway. Some people have to realize that wrestling didn't begin and end with the Attitude Era.
Just completely ignore the whole second post where I explained exactly what I meant.
People are taking it personally because the perfect wrestling show he's describing would bore people to death. 95 was exactly what he was describing and that year was unbearable for people such as myself. Cartoony, hokey patriotic heroes against even cartoonier and hokey "bad guys". No thanks. That's where we were headed until the rise of Punk too.
It's all a matter of taste. For my personal preference, the type of show he's describing sounds like a nightmare.
Re: Jim Duggan says Wrestling Doesn’t Need Beer-Swilling and Middle Finger Gestures
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Originally Posted by A$AP
Just completely ignore the whole second post where I explained exactly what I meant.
People are taking it personally because the perfect wrestling show he's describing would bore people to death. 95 was exactly what he was describing and that year was unbearable for people such as myself. Cartoony, hokey patriotic heroes against even cartoonier and hokey "bad guys". No thanks. That's where we were headed until the rise of Punk too.
It's all a matter of taste. For my personal preference, the type of show he's describing sounds like a nightmare.
First of all, you posted your second post while I was typing up mine. So apologies on my part.
Funny how you say the show would "bore people to death," where the fact is the "good guys vs. bad guys," wrestling is what got WWE big in the first place. They had a whole decade of that mentality during the early 80's to mid 90's. It's what sold out the Wrestlemania 3 with 93,000 people, it's what put WWE on the map. And WWE wasn't the first wrestling group to start that mentality, it's what made professional wrestling what it is. The only reason why they had to change was because 1) they were losing money, and 2) they were losing the ratings to Nitro.
So, instead of going out of business they abandoned the kid friendly show and made it the Attitude Era. WWE became raunchy, Jerry Springer-like television to gear towards a more adult fanbase to compete with WCW. After the Monday Night Wars were over they went back to family entertainment in a few short years.
What happened during the Attitude Era isn't the "be all, end all" of professional wrestling.
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Quote:
Professional wrestling is a television show.
Unnecessary flips and choreographed spots does not equal good wrestling.
TNA's current product is like someone trying to sell a type-writer in 2013.
Ryback: "Wrestling's fans in general are negative, alot of them."
Re: Jim Duggan says Wrestling Doesn’t Need Beer-Swilling and Middle Finger Gestures
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Originally Posted by StonecoldGoat
Hogan isn't that well known in Asia.I ask them Hulk Hogan.I get Blank Stares.They have no Clue who He is.Like i Explained Lack of cable Television in many Asian Countries in the 80s.
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Originally Posted by Sho'nuff
Obviously, no one knows. Still doesn't stop people from giving opinions on shit they don't know about.
Re: Jim Duggan says Wrestling Doesn’t Need Beer-Swilling and Middle Finger Gestures
this isn't the first time Jim Duggan threw a jab at Austin, the guy is so butthurt about Austin refusing to job to him 17 years ago
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"Every single thing you're doing right now in the wwe john , going to every show , The Rock has already done it . Every single thing you're thinking about doing , outside of the wwe , The Rock has already done it , as a matter of fact The Rock has done it better !"
Re: Jim Duggan says Wrestling Doesn’t Need Beer-Swilling and Middle Finger Gestures
Quote:
Originally Posted by itssoeasy23
First of all, you posted your second post while I was typing up mine. So apologies on my part.
Funny how you say the show would "bore people to death," where the fact is the "good guys vs. bad guys," wrestling is what got WWE big in the first place. They had a whole decade of that mentality during the early 80's to mid 90's. It's what sold out the Wrestlemania 3 with 93,000 people, it's what put WWE on the map. And WWE wasn't the first wrestling group to start that mentality, it's what made professional wrestling what it is. The only reason why they had to change was because 1) they were losing money, and 2) they were losing the ratings to Nitro.
So, instead of going out of business they abandoned the kid friendly show and made it the Attitude Era. WWE became raunchy, Jerry Springer-like television to gear towards a more adult fanbase to compete with WCW. After the Monday Night Wars were over they went back to family entertainment in a few short years.
What happened during the Attitude Era isn't the "be all, end all" of professional wrestling.
That's exactly it though. Every business adapts whether it be wrestling or not. Attitude was needed at the time and so it went. Wrestling has always gone in cycles, we all know that as fans. The PG demographic was hit because it needed to be. The teens that loved attitude grew up and moved on so they went back to catering to what made them big in the first place, the kids. I'm not disputing that. There's always going to be times when wrestling needs to pick up the violence/rating and when it needs to somber down. It's always going to be back and forth.
I believe Punk's promo was about as far as they're gunna go for the time being. If they ratings continue to decline to ridiculously low numbers they will resort to other game changing tactics.
Long story short, attitude was needed. I'm not arguing that it's needed now, I'm saying it came at the perfect time and took wrestling to another level. It isn't the end all be all of wrestling but it was the peak so yes people are always going to treat it as the standard.
Re: Jim Duggan says Wrestling Doesn’t Need Beer-Swilling and Middle Finger Gestures
Quote:
Originally Posted by A$AP
That's exactly it though. Every business adapts whether it be wrestling or not. Attitude was needed at the time and so it went. Wrestling has always gone in cycles, that's plain to see. The PG demographic was hit because it needed to be. The teens that loved attitude grew up and moved on so they went back to catering to what made them big in the first place, the kids. I'm not disputing that. There's always going to be times when wrestling needs to pick up the violence/rating and when it needs to somber down. It's always going to be back and forth.
I believe Punk's promo was about as far as they're gunna go for the time being. If they ratings continue to decline to ridiculously low numbers they will resort to other game changing tactics.
Long story short, attitude was needed. I'm not arguing that it's needed now, I'm saying it came at the perfect time and took wrestling to another level. It isn't the end all be all of wrestling but it was the peak so yes people are always going to treat it as the standard.
But's the not the standard though, or the "big all end all." It was essentially a fad, a way to get viewers and money back on their side. After the MNW was over, they went back to the family entertainment.
"Good guys vs. bad guy" is the standard in professional wrestling and will always will be. The Attitude Era was an exception, not the rule.
__________________
Quote:
Professional wrestling is a television show.
Unnecessary flips and choreographed spots does not equal good wrestling.
TNA's current product is like someone trying to sell a type-writer in 2013.
Ryback: "Wrestling's fans in general are negative, alot of them."
Re: Jim Duggan says Wrestling Doesn’t Need Beer-Swilling and Middle Finger Gestures
Quote:
Originally Posted by itssoeasy23
But's the not the standard though, or the "big all end all." It was essentially a fad, a way to get viewers and money back on their side. After the MNW was over, they went back to the family entertainment.
"Good guys vs. bad guy" is the standard in professional wrestling and will always will be. The Attitude Era was an exception, not the rule.
Now you're just stating the obvious. Professional wrestling as a source of entertainment isn't going to exist without Good Guy/Bad Guy, that's just common sense. It's about how those two should be portrayed that is the dispute. And no, Attitude Era wasn't an exception to this. It was just as prevalent in the AE as it was in the golden Era. The good/bad guys were just represented differently and you had the introduction of tweeners who catered to both crowds.
Re: Jim Duggan says Wrestling Doesn’t Need Beer-Swilling and Middle Finger Gestures
Except that's what we've had for a few years Duggan... how's that gone for the WWE lately?
Very few of us are arguing to have sex and violence to the extreme... just to stop insulting our intelligence and just admit the biggest demo that watches wrestling is that 20-50 year old male demo. That's pretty much always been the case and they were a huge reason why the boom periods occur. WCW managed to do it with a "PG" product and still feel edgy and cool and something adults could have a great time with. It catered to the adults in the audience though... that's why it worked.
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Ahhhh... late night strolls through the forum with my booze. Here's to finding out what the hell I did the next day!
Re: Jim Duggan says Wrestling Doesn’t Need Beer-Swilling and Middle Finger Gestures
Quote:
Originally Posted by A$AP
Now you're just stating the obvious. Professional wrestling as a source of entertainment isn't going to exist without Good Guy/Bad Guy, that's just common sense. It's about how those two should be portrayed that is the dispute. And no, Attitude Era wasn't an exception to this. It was just as prevalent in the AE as it was in the golden Era. The good/bad guys were just represented differently and you had the introduction of tweeners who catered to both crowds.
I guarantee that if you asked Jim if a company was in trouble and you had to resort to middle fingers and beer to stay alive, he would say do it. That's what Vince had to do in the late 90's, when he clearly likes family entertainment.
He never said attitude was bad, he never said it wont get over, he just likes family entertainment. You just like Attitude.
__________________
Quote:
Professional wrestling is a television show.
Unnecessary flips and choreographed spots does not equal good wrestling.
TNA's current product is like someone trying to sell a type-writer in 2013.
Ryback: "Wrestling's fans in general are negative, alot of them."
Last edited by itssoeasy23 : 12-04-2012 at 09:52 PM.
Jim Duggan says Wrestling Doesn’t Need Beer-Swilling and Middle Finger Gestures
Re: Jim Duggan says Wrestling Doesn’t Need Beer-Swilling and Middle Finger Gestures
