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post #41 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Rate the wrestlers you hate

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Originally Posted by sharkboy22 View Post
People tend to forget and overlook Cena's match with Khali when discussing his ability to carry a match.

But I don't believe in carrying a match. To me, it takes two to tango. Surely, one person may contribute more but let's not completely ignore the other's contribution. If one man were able to carry each and everyone to a match then we won't be saying stuff like "They just don't have great chemistry together" That's more than enough proof that it takes two to have a match.

For the past 5, 6 years John Cena has been one of the most consistent workers in the company when it comes to big time PPV matches. He always delivers. His RAW matches leave little to be desired but hey half the time his matches on RAW are against freaking jobbers that last about 3 minutes. Then of course, there's booking restrictions. Are you really telling me Cena can't put on a good match with Miz? Look at that match they had on RAW. How exciting. Sure their Mania match sucked and that I-Quit match was horrible but that's primarily due to booking.

You're wasting time and quite frankly so too am I trying to get a point through some of these thick headed people. But as I always say, what do people who say 'Cena can't tell a good story" know about telling a good story when they say things like "Kurt Angle is a better worker than him" These are people who confuse knowledge of movess with psychology. If knowing a bunch of moves made you a good storyteller, then quite frankly Mike Quackenbush would be one of the best damn psychologists of all time. He's not. He just random shit for random shit's sake because it looks cool. That doesn't make you a good wrestler.

I always say, anytime I could sit and watch a match and be completely bored out of my mind or sit there and analyze the shit out of it, then it's a terrible match. Why? Because there's no psychology in it. I'm not invested in it. It's like a shitty movie. If you sit and watch a movie and you just can't buy in to the plot, nothing makes sense and you just switch the damn thing off then it's a shitty movie. A wrestling match is no different. If all you're going is hitting these impressive lookingshit directly imported out of Japan, it doesn't make it a good match and it certainly doesn't make you a good wrestler. What's the point of hitting 15-20 fucking moves a match and nothing adds up? One minute you work the neck, then it's the back, then it's legs and there's no purpose or meaning behind the moves.

It's hard to get into a match like that. At least for me. I know a lot of people are fans of this style of wrestling. Hard hitting action they call it. I call it a fucking abomination of a match and butchering the sport. No selling, head dropping, high impact moves all in the name of it looking cool. It's funny, the guys who work this style of match (you're Davey Richards, Roderick Strong, the entire ROH roster quite frankly and majority of indy wrestlers) like to think of themselves as pro wrestling and not sports entertainment when quite frankly they put on the biggest spectacle of all time. What other reason is there to trade superkicks? Of all moves, a superkick? What other reason is there other than it looks cool?

So yeah, arguing ring psychology with these people is useless. These are people who go as far to say ring psychology is a made up term. All it takes to them to make someone a good wrestler is a knowledge of holds, high spots and teh movezzz!!!
Finally, someone I can discuss pro-wrestling with. A lot of wonderful points there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunk20 View Post
Is is so hard to try to follow the OP intention and just reply with your opinion?
Well, this thread has more than fulfilled the intention of creating it. The basic idea of asking people to rate the guys they hate is to see how many of them can get out and see how good the guy they hate is in some of the stuff and the Rock reply just summarized what I had in mind. Though I would love to see more people rating their hated wrestler while discussing other aspects, both per se, make this thread complete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walk-In View Post
A lot of it is also fans that don't realize they're being worked by WWE because they think they're too smart for that. A guy gets a gimmick for being a great wrestler, like Kurt Angle, and suddenly he's a top 10 all-time talent despite not knowing shit & peaking in his first four years.
Kurt Angle maybe one of the finest wrestling talents in terms of moveset or knowledge but a wrestler is different from a performer/entertainer. A wrestler merely requires to show off his ability to wrestle while the performer has to get the people engaged, involved taking control of them and keep them through the match using ring psychology and make them happy/sad with the final bell as the story of the match ends and demands.

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Originally Posted by Cactus View Post
Excellent point, Sharky. You are spot on about the indies being more of a spectacle than WWE.



We are actually having a decent conversation from a topic that really left little room for discussion. You don't have to bitch about it.
Well, the conversations that has been going around are inline with what I enjoy. I initially had a line saying leave out Cena for I knew this would be the direction (I also expected Rock being discussed along with Austin and Bret Hart) though I did not expect and was quiet surprised by the already existing comparison thread that was shared. To be far, Cena could be IWC's most hated guy and leaving him out would be unfair.

Great going guys.

Spoiler for Give the guy a break:

Last edited by theidealstranger; 10-07-2012 at 02:35 PM.
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post #42 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 02:36 PM
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Re: Rate the wrestlers you hate

I will try and be as neutral as I can, I don't hate anyone in the WWE, I just have strong opinions about their ability.

Kofi Kingston

Mic Work (just the eloquence) 1.5/5
Promo Skills 1.5/5
Charisma 2
In Ring ability 2
Storytelling 1
Ring Psychology 2

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post #43 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 02:40 PM
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Re: Rate the wrestlers you hate

John Cena

Mic Work (just the eloquence) 3
Promo Skills 4
Charisma 3.5
In Ring ability 2
Storytelling 1.5
Ring Psychology 1
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post #44 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 02:45 PM
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Re: Rate the wrestlers you hate

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Originally Posted by Pro Royka View Post
Comparing Cena with Kurt Angle is laughable.
I agree. Cena smokes Angle on almost every level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro Royka View Post
Kurt Angle is one of the greatest of all time in the ring and overall he's one of the best I have ever seen in my life. Cena can go and have fun with his matches being carried by the best in this business. He never was constant with his work, he only shines with guys that are better than him. Can easily be proved.
Instead of simply posting bullshit like 'ANGLEZ DAH GREATESTS OF ALL TIMES', why don't you list Angle's qualities and what he actually adds to his matches? We've addressed what we find great about Cena and we've also addressed that you can't really be carried by Umaga and Miz. Your turn.
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post #45 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 03:08 PM
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Re: Rate the wrestlers you hate

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Originally Posted by Cactus View Post
I agree. Cena smokes Angle on almost every level.
Oh my fuckin god



Quote:
of simply posting bullshit like 'ANGLEZ DAH GREATESTS OF ALL TIMES', why don't you list Angle's qualities and what he actually adds to his matches? We've addressed what we find great about Cena and we've also addressed that you can't really be carried by Umaga and Miz. Your turn.
Well, except Angle's ability to execute a hip toss, a punch and a dropkick without looking like an absolute retard and tearing a hammy i would also like to add that... Are you for real? Are you seriously comparing Kurt freakin' Angle's wrestling to Cena's and keeping a straight face? Is this the twilight zone or are you just trolling. Please tell me you're trolling.

No.
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post #46 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 03:17 PM
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Re: Rate the wrestlers you hate

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Originally Posted by Evil Neville View Post
Oh my fuckin god





Well, except Angle's ability to execute a hip toss, a punch and a dropkick without looking like an absolute retard and tearing a hammy i would also like to add that... Are you for real? Are you seriously comparing Kurt freakin' Angle's wrestling to Cena's and keeping a straight face? Is this the twilight zone or are you just trolling. Please tell me you're trolling.
The only thing Angle has over Cena is his moveset... and Angle's moveset means jackshit when you can't even structure your matches right. Cena may look awkward but I have never seen Cena throw 2 AAs and STFs into a regular TV match. 2012 Angle is unbearable. I honest prefer 50% of the current roster over Angle.

Again, you are avoiding the question. I'm asking what makes Angle so great and you are avoiding the question. Angle's gimmick was that he was a great pro-wrestler because he was in the Olympics and does a load of suplexes and shit and it seems you are buying into the gimmick.

I'm not trolling and I don't know why you would think such a thing.

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?showtopic=16554

I guess everyone is trolling in this thread too, right?

Last edited by Cactus; 10-07-2012 at 03:20 PM.
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post #47 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 03:26 PM
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Hogan

Mic,work : 3
Promos,: 3
In ring: -5

Top 10 all time favorites:

Stone Cold Steve Austin
The Undertaker
Shawn Michaels
Chris Jericho
Brock Lesnar
Kurt Angle
HHH
Edge
CM Punk
Kane (98-04)
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post #48 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 03:35 PM
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Re: Rate the wrestlers you hate

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Originally Posted by Cactus View Post
The only thing Angle has over Cena is his moveset... and Angle's moveset means jackshit when you can't even structure your matches right. Cena may look awkward but I have never seen Cena throw 2 AAs and STFs into a regular TV match. 2012 Angle is unbearable. I honest prefer 50% of the current roster over Angle.

Again, you are avoiding the question. I'm asking what makes Angle so great and you are avoiding the question. Angle's gimmick was that he was a great pro-wrestler because he was in the Olympics and does a load of suplexes and shit and it seems you are buying into the gimmick.

I'm not trolling and I don't know why you would think such a thing.

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?showtopic=16554

I guess everyone is trolling in this thread too, right?
What makes Angle so great is the fact that Angle has put on matches and had fueds that John Cena couldn't imagine in his wildest dreams. What makes Angle so great is that the quality of his body of work dwarves Cena's at a ratio of about 763/1. What makes Angle so great is that his brilliance, excellence and innovation inside and outside of the ring, as a wrestler, worker and as a character makes Cena's bland, unimaginitive, lazy, stale, boring, awkward, formulaic, untalented persona looking like the low-midcard talent he is.

For every "good" Cena match, Angles's had about 20 absolutely amazing ones. Angle's random RAW matches shit on Cena's best performances from a freakin' 20 foot ladder.

If Cena could put on a match 1/5 of the quality that Angle had with the likes of Rock, Austin, etc. he should maybe be allowed to shine Kurt's boots. Dweeb should be thakful that Kurt gave him that one good match because God knows, poor muppet ain't got many.

No.

Last edited by Evil Neville; 10-07-2012 at 03:39 PM.
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post #49 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 03:44 PM
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Re: Rate the wrestlers you hate

Cena

Mic Work (just the eloquence): 3
Promo Skills: 2
Charisma: 3
In Ring ability: 2
Storytelling: 4
Ring Psychology: 1

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post #50 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 03:53 PM
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Re: Rate the wrestlers you hate

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Originally Posted by Evil Neville View Post
What makes Angle so great is the fact that Angle has put on matches and had fueds that John Cena couldn't imagine in his wildest dreams. What makes Angle so great is that the quality of his body of work dwarves Cena's at a ratio of about 763/1. What makes Angle so great is that his brilliance, excellence and innovation inside and outside of the ring, as a wrestler, worker and as a character makes Cena's bland, unimaginitive, lazy, stale, boring, awkward, formulaic, untalented persona looking like the low-midcard talent he is.

For every "good" Cena match, Angles's had about 20 absolutely amazing ones. Angle's random RAW matches shit on Cena's best performances from a freakin' 20 foot ladder.

If Cena could put on a match 1/5 of the quality that Angle had with the likes of Rock, Austin, etc. he should maybe be allowed to shine Kurt's boots. Dweeb should be thakful that Kurt gave him that one good match because God knows, poor muppet ain't got many.
Ok, I tried to stay out of this but seriously fuck off. No, no seriously you're a terrible debater. You really are.

"For every 1 good match Cena has, Angle has 20" that's not supporting your view at all. That's just called over exaggeration.

"Angle's random RAW matches shit on Cena's best performances from a freakin' 20 foot ladder" doesn't even make any sense. R.I.P. English.

"If Cena could put on a match 1/5 of the quality Angle had with the likes of Rock, Austin etc" is 1) an immeasurable statistic. What is 1/5 the quality of his matches? Which match? and 2)Cena has had one match with Rock and none with Austin. How can you compare the countless Rock/Angle and Angle/Austin with just one Cena/Rock and absolutely no Cena/Austin? And who the fuck is etc?

"Kurt gave him that one good match because he doesn't have many" I swear to God we just compiled a huge ass list of matches not just in this thread but the official match thread comprising of quite a few Cena matches.

Again, for the last time. Come up with a list with, of what you think, Angle's greatest matches and explain why they were great. Explain the psychology behind it and how such and such a move contributed to tone, atmosphere and the overall match. When you can do that then reply to this. Otherwise, just do what this thread asked you to do or post elsewhere. Point is, shut up about the debate because you are losing. When you can actually bring something to the table worth discussing instead of a bunch of over exaggerated and senseless statements such as "What makes Angle so great is that the quality of his body of work dwarves Cena's at a ratio of about 763/1." then I would waste time having a conversation with you.

Also when you learn to support and elaborate a statement such as "What makes Angle so great is that his brilliance, excellence and innovation inside and outside of the ring, as a wrestler, worker and as a character makes Cena's bland, unimaginitive, lazy, stale, boring, awkward, formulaic, untalented persona looking like the low-midcard talent he is.", only then can you partake in this discussion because clearly some level of intelligence is needed to participate in this discussion. A level which you are way, way below.


Last edited by sharkboy22; 10-07-2012 at 03:56 PM.
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