Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 905 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:12 AM   #9041 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I think you're a fair guy given your disapproval. I was only bringing it up for the claim that was made on the last page.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:23 AM   #9042 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I give Rock credit where its due too. Rock/Cena was a steaming pile of shit. Doesn't matter if I like the guy or not. He's had some great matches in the past.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:25 AM   #9043 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Ok

What did you think of Rock/Hogan WM 18?
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:26 AM   #9044 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Thought it was really good.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:27 AM   #9045 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Cal already covered it but yeah, his dislike for Rock doesn't extend to blindly hating every match he's in. Rock/Cena wasn't good for a number of reasons, the main two being the length of the match and neither guy really being able to work holds well enough to kill time like they did.

Rock/Hogan was somehow 10x the match Rock/Cena which is amazing considering Cena never fails to deliver in big main events. They nailed the length of the match to a tee, where it got enough time to build up the pseudo heel Rock, the crowd loving Hogan and the eventual finishing stretch. Rock/Hogan would have sucked similarly if they'd gone for a 30 minute match like Rock/Cena, which makes it all the more strange that WWE agents didn't think to follow a similar format given Rock had barely wrestled in 8 years and was hardly in a condition to wrestle a match of that length.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:33 AM   #9046 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I don't the hate for the Wrestlemania 28 match. I liked it quite a bit. The Rock seemed somewhat technical in the match and it certainly felt like a big deal match. I can understand why people say it didn't live up to the hype. In many ways it didn't. But would it have even been possible to considering the year build and how much importance and emphasis was placed on it? Unlikely.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:27 PM   #9047 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Rock/Cena match was fine, but far too long. They absolutely should've gone the Rock/Hogan route in that it should've been about 15 mins long. Rock/Cena dragged in the middle, but I loved the staredown at the start followed by the power exchanges and then Rock almost getting the early pin which totally threw Cena for a minute.

The ending was magical too; Rock channeling his '96-'97 days with a crossbody off the top rope only for Cena to use his freakish power to gain the advantage. Then, Cena lets his ego get the better of him by trying to mock Rocky, only for Rock to use the breather to nip up and finish him off for the win. Plus, the pop from the crowd when Rock wins is a moment for the ages, and a TRUE feel-good moment as 95% of the crowd wanted Rocky to win.

Good match, just about worth the hype (crap as the build-up was). BUT I don't want to see a rematch. EVER.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:39 PM   #9048 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

All this talk about 2012 made me go back and watch a few matches from earlier this year to make me re-evaluate my opinion on the top matches ;

Brock-Cena ER 12 : *****

It's the match of the year. Period. It's amazing how great Brock was in his comeback match as compared to Rocky at Wrestlemania XXVIII. I don't think I'll ever forget this match as long as I live, and if I could take one story told in a wrestling match this year and say it deserves to live forever , it would be the imagine of BROCK destroying everything in his path with Cena basically catching him with a few big moves ; COMPLETELY believeable for all of you butt-hurt Cena marks. I didn't really like the booking per se , but they kind of fucked themselves over with the whole "ROCK" deal. A top 4 WWE-PG match ever and the second best NON-UNDERTAKER match since 2004.

Bryan-Punk OTL 12 : **** 3/4

This match is the "Angle-Benoit" of this new generation of competitors, a match we can look at and say "HEY, WRESTLING WORKS" as opposed to some of the shitty entertainment the E' cranks out from time to time. These two guys went out there and sold WRESTLING in the biggest company in the world. Of course, it's not QUITE as good as Angle-Benoit but it sold wrestling better than any match since then, which leads me too.....

Punk-Bryan MITB 12 : ****

Awesome, AWESOME match that had all the ability to be just as good as the OTL match-up except there were a few story flaws that really pissed me off... ONE ; the focus shifted off two guys trying to be the best in the world to AJ AJ AJ AJ AJ and it really pissed me off. It was almost (but not a 10th as bad) as the Eddie/Rey angle degenerating into the shitty Dominick angle. Secondly and most importantly, the kendo stick inclusion made AJ's incorporation of the chair almost ENTIRELY pointless. Those two flaws deduct heavy amounts of points from the match for me in what could have been a **** 3/4 encounter. Still fucking awesome and obviously the MOTN as anytime Punk and Bryan step up they deliver.

Taker-HHH HIAC WM XXVIII : **** 1/2

Haven't changed my mind on this one at all. Still a classic Wrestlemania encounter between two of the greatest of all time inside the Cell with some amazing storytelling and great brutality. Here's one thing I didn't like and this is very surprising to even myself ; HBK's role in the match. I thought he was too over-the-top goofy in what should have been the most subtle story ever (which is what made the WM XXVII match better slightly IMO) . He gets a pass however, for one of the most amazing near-falls ever with the SCM-Pedigree combo. Fuck this match is amazing, but at the moment it's only my 4th best WWE match of the year (a travesty I know).

Punk-Jericho WM XXVIII : **** 1/2

Storytelling 101 for sure. This is the quinissential example of a match being better on a rewatch compared to when you go to see it live. I don't even need to talk about how great this match is, you should just go and watch it to be honest because I can't do justice to the awesome story that Punk and Jericho convey here. I'm a big fan of the ER rematch, but that match doesn't even touch this one ... AT ALL. The DQ rule and how Punk sold it, being a man that was possessed but had to keep his calm = JIZZ.

K1ngofK1ngs WWE 2012 Matches ****+ (In Order)

1. Brock-Cena ER 12 : *****

2. Punk-Bryan OTL 12 : **** 3/4

3. Brock-HHH SS 12 : **** 1/2
4. Taker-HHH WM XXVIII : **** 1/2
5. Punk-Jericho WM XVIII : **** 1/2
6. Sheamus-Bryan ER 12 : **** 1/2

7. Punk-Cena NOC 12 : **** 1/4

8. Sheamus-Show HIAC 12 : ****
9. Punk-Henry RAW 4/2/12 : ****
10. Punk-Bryan MITB 12 : ****
11. Punk-Jericho ER 12 : ****
12. Punk-Bryan RAW 1/30 : ****

Still need to rewatch the other Punk-Bryan's and Sheamus-Bryan RAW matches. Punk is CLEARLY WWE's MVP of the year and I don't see how anybody can realistically argue that (Even C2D )

FUCK IT ! Here's my top 30 WWE Matches of the PG Era so far as a bonus :

1. Taker-HBK WM XXV : *****
2. Taker-HBK WM XXVI : *****
3. Punk-Cena MITB 11 : *****
4. Brock-Cena ER 12 : *****

5. Taker-HHH WM XXVII : **** 3/4
6. Punk-Bryan OTL 12 : **** 3/4

7. Punk-Cena SS 11 : **** 1/2
8. HHH-Lesnar SS 12 : **** 1/2
9. Taker-HHH WM XXVIII : **** 1/2
10. Taker-Edge SS 08 : **** 1/2
11. Mysterio-Jericho BASH 09 : **** 1/2
12. Punk-Jericho WM XXVIII : **** 1/2
13. Sheamus-Bryan ER 12 : **** 1/2

14. Punk-Cena NOC 12 : **** 1/4
15. HBK-Jericho NM 08 : **** 1/4
16. Orton-Christian OTL 11 : **** 1/4
17. Orton-Christian SS 11 : **** 1/4
18. HBK-Jericho UNF 08 : **** 1/4
19. Ziggler-Bryan BR 10 : **** 1/4
20. SD EC 10 : **** 1/4

21. Punk-Hardy SS 09 : ****
22. Punk-Cena RAW 11 : ****
23. HHH-Hardy NM 08 : ****
24. DX vs Legacy SS 09 : ****
25. Mysterio-Morrison SD 09 : ****
26. Sheamus-Show HIAC 12 : ****
27. Batista-Cena ER 10 : ****
28. HHH-Cena-HBK SS 09 : ****
29. Punk-HHH NOC 11 : ****
30. Punk-Henry Raw 12 : ****

THAT WAS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. The first 20 are actually what I believe, it's just the 10 after that where I forgot some matches here and there.... Taker/Punk/Cena/HHH RULE DA PG ERA....................... PG ERA MATCHES >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attitude Era matches.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:23 PM   #9049 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Someone should have had more heel qualities in the Rock/Cena match. As well as bringing the time of the match down.
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Old 11-18-2012, 02:42 PM   #9050 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Started watching some WWE stuff from the decade, thought I'd write a bit about one of the matches I never properly got around to watching before...

The Rock vs. Triple H - Iron Man Match (WWF Judgment Day 05/21/00)
Holy fuck, Triple H was so badass in 2000. Seriously, his entrance is one of the most awesome things…ever. Looks like a boss walking down followed by Steph, Vince and Shane. Reminds me of how much I used to mark out for him despite hating him at the same time. Also forgot just how insane Rocky’s pops were, jesus, every single time he comes out it’s ridiculously loud, gives all of his matches from this time period a great atmosphere imo. Anyway…

Stare dwon at the start is great, they hate each other. Rock was always great at that kind of thing, talking shit to his opponents and looking angry before his matches. Absolutely loved the start of this, seeing stuff from these two we’ve never seen before because of them adapting to the match type. Rock going for the pin attempts early off the shoulder blocks and the roll ups was cool, and Trips’ going to the outside out of frustration was great. Already this feels like a really different type of match completely to what we’d usually get from these two, or any main event style match from the time, and I really dig it.

I really liked the first fall for The Rock, put over how Hunter will try and strategize but Rock is more full on with his offence so him countering the arm work Trips was going for into the Rock Bottom was great. The missed knee on the barricade was a good transition spot into the next portion of the match. Rock controlling the match and working over the leg is something I didn’t expect (never actually seen first half of this before, and what I have seen I can‘t really remember), but it’s really good, and Trips is great selling everything. Figure Four is a good spot, actually expected one of them to tap in the hold. The first two falls for Triple H are fine and dandy, he hit’s a desperation Pedigree out of nowhere for the first, sells the leg really well, and then small packages Rock for the second. The thing about this is, it’s really putting over both guys finishers as certain match enders, and having Rock remain out of it after the Pedigree for ages was a great touch and not being able to escape even a roll up for Trips’ second fall ruled.

I really dug them going to the outside with Rock still loopy from the Pedigree, and walking around like a drunk while Hunter goes on the attack. Rock hitting desperation stuff up the entrance isle, especially the back suplex was great. It didn’t look smooth, and it was kind of sloppy, but JR’s “Rock’s heart was in the suplex, but his head was not” really put over how groggy he still is and him not hitting the move smoothly really added to the match. JR fucking rules, not like I have to tell anyone that. When Rock comes back around he’s back in control, but Trips hits another huge desperation move for another fall, this time it’s a piledriver. Piledriver getting a fall was awesome to see. Triple H is selling the leg all the time, and both guys sell the fatigue and the effects of the match really well too.

The match kicks into higher gear after that fall and the arm drag off the top rope by Rock. Trips going for the sleeper could easily have been seen as trying to kill time, but it totally worked and it wasn’t even locked in for that long either, but it was a logical spot for Hunter and in the context of the match. The next fall for Rock seemed a little anticlimactic because Rock kind of fluffed the float over DDT, but who the hell is complaining there, for a guy who never wrestles these long matches it’s always going to happen. I like that all the falls up until this point have been desperation spots with big moves.

The next part of the match completely rules. Rock is on the advantage after the DDT, and Trips gets desperate and sacrifices a fall by cracking Rock with a chair, but it’s ok because he can gain a fall straight back because Rock is out cold. I adore spots like that in these kind of matches. Trips then using the sleeper to get another fall was again, awesome stuff. Rock is totally dead now.

Loved The Rock getting back into it and hitting the Pedigree on the table which looked sick! Another great way to end a fall (by countout), and then followed by the McMahons coming back down and getting involved only for Michaels to get involved and allowing Rock to hit the People Elbow to tie things up. Crowd is molten by this point and it’s amazing. Rocky getting back into it after being down and out was a great baby face comeback moment. The crowd was testament to how good it was. Then DX gets involved and Taker’s video package starts playing in the background while everyone beats down The Rock. It’s an awesome moment and still had me freaking out like a child on this viewing. Crowd is insane, they really think Rock has it in the bag now because Taker has come to kill everyone and help him out and it makes for an amazing atmosphere. But it wasn’t to be. The swerve ending was great, pretty sure everyone knows how it ends. Crowd are pissed, but not in a ‘this sucks’ way, in a ‘I hate that bastard and I hate that he won’ way where they are just mad that the heel won.

Yeah, it got a tad overbooked towards the end (just like the backlash match), but it was hella fun, and the match that preceded it was absolutely superb on pretty much every level. Never felt like anything was done to kill time, everything felt logical and important, and all the falls were worked very well. Both guys put on brilliant performances too. I seriously loved this. ****1/2
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