Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 896 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
 
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post #8951 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 06:09 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Saw both of these reviewed recently as part of a project and it convinced me to give both a watch:

MNM vs Rey Mysterio & Batista, (Smackdown 12/30/05)



Amazing STF match here. People often bring up great tag teams and honestly, has there been a better tag team since the Rockers in the WWE than MNM? People point to the Hardyz, Dudleys and E&C but none of those teams, especially the Dudleys and E&C as heels could work a match quite like MNM. Match is entirely layed out like a great STF match should be, and when you've got great babyfaces like Mysterio and Batista who are complimented by great heels in MNM its a formula which can't fail. Extended babyface opening has a nice flow to it and everything is hit well enough with Mysterio in particular having a tremendous headscissors on Nitro which looked insane. Nitro to his credit also has this brilliant subtle spot where he breaks up a Mysterio cover and then shits himself when he eyes Batista about to enter the ring. In fairness the way they built up the power of Batista at the beginning and end of the match really should be credited, since it made the FIP section all the more pivotal to the match.

Transition spot is beautiful with Mercury distracting Mysterio long enough for Nitro to counter a springboard with a superkick, and Mysterio's right leg gets tangled in the ropes and becomes the centre of MNM's focus. From here the selling of Mysterio is as beautiful as MNM's dissection of the leg. Things like Mysterio collapsing on an irish whip attempt and Nitro drawing the referee into trying to control Batista allowing them to hit an illegal double team move are just brilliant little touches that you'll often find in a STF match. MNM work the leg like kings and everything moves along smoothly and the crowd slowly becomes more unglued with each tease of a hot tag. Whole sequence where Rey rolls away like a fly to evade MNM's trap, only to be caught mid dive and inches away from the hot tag only to hit a desparation DDT counter and eventually make the tag was the spot of the match.

Hot tag has the crowd molten and Batista does his job well in clearing house and making MNM lambs to the slaughter. Melina really sells the fear that Batista will evaporate their strategy in the blink of an eye and they even manage to work the referee injury spot really well. Mysterio before this hits a lunatic hurricanrana to Nitro off the apron to the floor which really felt like everything he had left in the match. Mark Henry interference is perfectly timed and we get a great screjob finish with MNM stealing the belts with Batista motionless from Henry's assault. Great pacing, great offence from MNM, wonderful FIP spell from Mysterio and a great build to the hot tag to Batista. Awesome match.


Jack Swagger vs Christian, (ECW 2/24/09)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8j...2#.UKarPIYybk8

Ok, so its been a while since I last saw this but on last watch it was my MOTY for 2009. Having watched it again that's still the case for me and tbh the gap has only widened in my view for this being better than any other match I've seen from 2009. The pacing, the selling, the workover, the timing, the veteran/rookie story which plays into almost every transition...its just a spectacular match which really deserves more praise from people. I mean as far as 'world title' matches go in WWE since 2000-2012, I'd only have Cena/Umaga, Cena/Punk MITB, Eddie/JBL and maybe Mysterio/Orton ahead of it. As much as I wouldn't argue with anyone who has matches like Angle/Taker 03 and 06, I honestly think bell to bell I prefer this match to them. I mean I like both those matches a hell of a lot, but matches like Angle/Austin, Punk/Bryan, Austin/Benoit, Batista/Taker and HHH/Hardy aren't necessarily 'better' to me than this, though I could see the argument for Austin/Angle.

The story of the veteran Christian vs the more agile yet inexperienced Swagger is beautifully told. The early mat wrestling establishes Swagger as having Christian's number although Christian manages to look fairly competent, albeit outmatched in this area. Throughout the match though every Christian transition revolves around either his experience in luring Swagger into dangerous areas or using Swagger's inexperience against him, such as pulling the ropes to send Swagger to the floor as a setup for the crossbody dive to the floor. Swagger himself always manages to stay a step ahead of Christian via his sheer power or his superior counter wrestling ability. The way these contrasts dominate every major sequence in the match is sensational and really adds to a tremendous flow and rhythm as they work their way towards the finish.

Swagger's workover of Christian is timed and done very well, with Christian however pulling out arguably his most emphatic selling performance. Loved the way Swagger's superior wrestling ability proved the difference maker in keeping Christian down when he was handicapped, whereas prior to that it wasn't something Swagger could rely on to decisively win. Christian's selling throughout the workover and into his comeback however needs to be studied by all aspiring babyface wrestlers, because its a masterclass in how to build empathy, drama and attachment to the match and pull the crowd into every nearfall in the finish. The way he sells it after hitting moves which could otherwise have won him the match, especially after the tornado DDT where he pulls this brilliant facial expression of pure agony is majestical. You not only feel his physical pain but also his anger and frustration at being hampered by the injury as he tries to complete his career comeback.

All the nearfalls in this are timed expertly and built to in a simplistic yet smart fashion. Both men unleash shrewd and timely counters which feel organic and not just being done as a lazy transition, and Christian's injury really adds a sense of drama to every counter with you expecting it to give out at any moment. I really loved how they did a callback spot to the initial transition spot where Swagger caught Christian with a surprise clothesline, only for him to fail when attempting this again later in the match as well as his reverse splash being countered on the 2nd attempt. Really touched upon Christian's experience and versatility and again had you believing he could beat Swagger. The final counters from Christian out of the Swagger Bomb are really well executed and the finish is sublime with Christian managing to pull off a masterclass counter into a Killswitch only for the arm to give out and Swagger to hit a desperation Swagger bomb for the finish.

Just a beautiful wrestling match with well thought out and structured counters, a great story which dominates the body of the match and crucial transitions, Christian pulling out an exceptional babyface selling performance and Swagger looking as good as he'd ever look inside a WWE ring.
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post #8952 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 06:39 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Just watched that tag match. I didn't remember it at all, which made it more exciting this time around. MNM was so legit.





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post #8953 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 06:45 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Yeah, I knew one of those MNM vs Batista/Mysterio matches rocked. Think the first match was a squash, then it was that one, then the cage where Henry couldn't get the lock to break, haha.

****1/4 for Christian vs Swagger. So much magic in less than 13 minutes.

Gonna watch the HBK promo right now. Never seen it...

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post #8954 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 06:47 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

They were incredible. Definitely would have excelled in the territories with that sort of gimmick and approach to working a tag match. Their matches were always packed with great heel mannerisms and traits that you expect from a good STF match, drawing the ref out of position, illegal moves, choking the opponent, entering the ring without a legit tag etc. Nitro in particular was a mad bump machine and Mercury was probably the more calculating and smarter worker at the time. Makes me think Nitro/Morrison really should have been a career tag guy, because he really was looking like a future star here compared to singles matches where he was more hit or miss.
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post #8955 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 06:55 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Well look at his run in tag teams. He benefited being with an experienced guy in Joey Mercury, then by the time he hooked up with Miz he was seasoned enough in the tag game to mesh well with him. Sounds like there should be a project where someone should watch every Johnny Nitro/John Morrison tag team match. I know there are enough to complete that. vs Yang & Moore from ECW are the gems i'm immediately thinking of w/Morrison & Miz.

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post #8956 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 06:58 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Nitro/Morrison =

Always been a fan.

FUCK @ that Swagger/Christian match. Hadn't seen it before.





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post #8957 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 07:01 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Tag matches in general really are a great way to hide the limitations of certain wrestlers and play to what strengths they have. Guys like Angle can use their fast paced style off of a hot tag without having to worry about the work in between the spots, and guys not confident/experienced enough to lead a match have the advantage of tagging in and out to reduce the workload. Such a shame WWE more or less gave up on them for such a long time because they're a great learning device. Its also a shame that for whatever reason the current crop of wrestlers seem unable to work a proper STF match. Everything on the bigger shows really just feels like filler (the lack of time obviously contributes here) but for the most part guys just don't seem bothered to work a good STF match like you usually associate with WWE. Think the last tag I'd call close to great was the Cena/Bourne vs Sheamus/Edge tag from Raw 2010 and that was all down to Cena being an amazing apron worker, Bourne being a dynamite FIP with an engaging underdog story and he and Sheamus having a great cat and mouse dynamic in nearly all of their exchanges.
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post #8958 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 07:05 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Anyone care to give thoughts on Rock's newest DVD set? I just ordered it.

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post #8959 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 07:05 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

STF = standard tag formula? Or am I way off base with that guess? It has been bugging me. Never seen that acronym describe tag work before (clearly you're more adept in the area than I).





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post #8960 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 07:06 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lady Killer View Post
Nitro/Morrison =

Always been a fan.

FUCK @ that Swagger/Christian match. Hadn't seen it before.
I miss the LADDERSAULT gif.

Never saw it? What were you doing with yourself in 2009? (at least you saw it now)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Segunda Caida View Post
Tag matches in general really are a great way to hide the limitations of certain wrestlers and play to what strengths they have. Guys like Angle can use their fast paced style off of a hot tag without having to worry about the work in between the spots, and guys not confident/experienced enough to lead a match have the advantage of tagging in and out to reduce the workload. Such a shame WWE more or less gave up on them for such a long time because they're a great learning device. Its also a shame that for whatever reason the current crop of wrestlers seem unable to work a proper STF match. Everything on the bigger shows really just feels like filler (the lack of time obviously contributes here) but for the most part guys just don't seem bothered to work a good STF match like you usually associate with WWE. Think the last tag I'd call close to great was the Cena/Bourne vs Sheamus/Edge tag from Raw 2010 and that was all down to Cena being an amazing apron worker, Bourne being a dynamite FIP with an engaging underdog story and he and Sheamus having a great cat and mouse dynamic in nearly all of their exchanges.
They even fill like dreaded filler when they get time. If I have to stomache another 10 minute Mysterio/Sin Cara tag match I'm gonna punch somebody. Meanwhile Heath Slater, who is in a tag team now, still gets 3 minute matches and he's proven to a degree that he's pretty strong in tag team bouts. I loved the Slater/Gabriel vs Cena/Miz tag on 2/21/11. Worked it southern style and it was just awesome. One hell of a surprise that I wasn't expecting.

Oh, don't bring up 2010. Been meaning to relive that year since I really was into what WWE was pumping out at that time. That means I'll have to start another project w/o finishing the 3 or so I have already.

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