Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 858 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #8571 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 02:48 AM
Déesse de L'extase
 
HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Electric Chapel.
Posts: 33,526
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
                     
Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

ECW 1/20/09

1) Ricky Ortiz vs Adam Evans ~ DUD


2) Paul Burchill vs The Boogeyman ~ DUD


3) Fatal Four Way Match:
Dave Finlay vs Mark Henry vs John Morrison vs Mike Mizanin ~ *


Ok, this ECW was bad.

Go home for the Rumble and the opening segment was a short Matt Hardy interview about Jeff being blown up by his pyro. Swagger interrupts and a mini brawl occurs. Then later we'd find out that on Smackdown the real build begins when Hardy pins Swagger in a tag team match to hand him his first pinfall loss in the WWE. So back to ECW and instead of a Hardy vs Swagger tag we get a Ricky Ortiz squash. Which was sad simply because Ortiz was just as unknown as the jobber he defeated. So glad he flopped. Yikes. Next up Paul Burchill complained to Teddy Long and was given The Boogeyman. Nothing says awesome matches like The Boogeyman. Especially when they go less than 2 minutes and ends in a DQ. We're on a roll now. Granted the main event had promise. No doubt. Unfortunately it ended up being a 6 minute random affair. No real structure to it at all. I know Fatal Four Ways can be wild, but guys like make something of it. Easy filler match to build towards the Rumble. (all 4 were in said Rumble) Henry leaves mid match because he realizes it doesn't mean anything. Finlay kills Miz, Morrison knocks Finlay out, and pins his tag team champion partner for the win. End show. Blah.

Lucky for me this would be the worse ECW of the year. So far at least. I'm currently starting June so there was a nice 5 month margin of being an entertaining program. Although with my superb memory for loving these shows, I know the latter part of ECW is when it became REALLY fun with the influx of new talent. Weakest ECW out of the way, the rest is grand.

Nouvelle Vague.
Dance. Sex. Art. Pop.
HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #8572 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 03:27 AM
Pineapple Jheri, mon.
 
Yeah1993's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: BOB BACKLUND
Posts: 9,959
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
                     
Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

WARNING: Hundreds and hundreds of words coming up with no attempt at paragraph spacing. I had no intention for it to be this long. It isn't play by play, though; promise.



Shawn Michaels v The Undertaker (WrestleMania 4/5/09)
So I'm not one to really get into arcs or deeper meanings of wrestling matches unless I'm actually enjoying what I'm watching. The Shawn Michaels v Batista stretcher match in 2008 furthers a lot of story and continues feuds, but as a match I think it's rubbish and thus I don't give a shit about any of the story being furthered or any arc being created. This is different. I don't really get as emotionally involved into this kind of stuff as a lot of people, but if I look at it from kayfabe eyes, it helps a lot. This was the 25th WrestleMania, and this was two guys who are known as the two best WrestleMania wrestlers there are. Taker has the streak, and Michaels is "Mr. WrestleMania". Do I actually agree? Maybe or maybe not, but I have to pretend in a case like this. In the Royal Rumble 2000 HHH v Cactus Jack street fight, HHH is presented as the 'technical' wrestler. I don't see him as a technical wrestler at all. But, pretending he is through kayfabe eyes means that the story of him trying to figure a way to win the street fight which Foley excels is made really great. This match here is built as the two greatest wrestlers of the greatest event of the greatest company in wrestling history, and that's a story I can buy. SO, they have a story. Now they have to wrestle a match. How do you start wrestling a match like this? Well, despite the story I just blabbed on about, there's another story to look at - the Undertaker is motherfucking huge and Shawn Michaels is not. So Shawn has to sort of manoeuvre his way around him and find ways to damage him without getting caught himself. I liked how he did it. He kept his strikes simple and effective and didn't stay on him too long or else Taker would chuck him off and probably have control of Shawn and not let go. Michaels' chops don't look very good, but I don't hate them as much as some people seem to and they don't bother me a terrible amount. So Michaels gets around Taker multiple times and after a bit he gets a little cocky and does the crotch-chop and running away, and once Taker gets a hold of him he puts Shawn in the a corner and throw some really good punches at him. And just like I said, Taker had control of him and didn't let go. That was until he made a mistake by creating distance. He went back, ran toward the buckle and Shawn moved. Michaels was spending the openings of the match spacing him out and once Taker tried that he paid for it. Shawn working the leg for a bit was cool. If he can't successfully stay on top by creating space then he can try to chop the motherfucking huge Undertaker down. Taker's selling was really good; he was hitting his leg to get feeling back and wiggled it when picking Michaels up, and I love it when guys do stuff like that. Now I talked about Shawn's chops not bothering me a whole lot.......his crossface and figure four however, suck shit. Dude, stop trying to apply them. You can't. Post-crossface Taker was touching his jaw, which is the kind of standard selling stuff I mentioned earlier I really like. Now to me this match is sort of divided into two parts, and I've always looked at that way. Part two starts when Taker dives. Feels like a total game changer and the match goes from a feeling out process to the big epic that this match has the reputation of. The dive itself is ludicrous. Totally nasty spill where he just landed on his neck/shoulder area. Taker was what, 45 years old here? And around 6'9"? There is no reason for a 6'9" 45 year old to dive like that and take a Psicosis-level bump, but he did and it made a much more even playing field. When Michaels took that crooked moonsault bump (which looked crummier than I thought, but since it was a MISSED bump it doesn't matter), it sort of felt like Taker could have his way with him, but now Taker took a big risk himself and it cost him. Then count-out tease was awesome and Michaels' pleading for the match to be over was much more believable than most of the 2000s Michaels acting I don't like. This "part two" is full of finishers, and some people can have a problem with that, but I don't. It's a big match with two big players on a big stage - what do want them to do? I'm not the "yay nearfalls" type of guy, but as long as it's executed well and they sell their shit properly I don't know why there's much of a problem with it. It creates a great drama when done right and I absolutely think this was done right. Taker had Michaels pinned in each finisher he tried, but Shawn wouldn't stay down. After watching so much 2000s Michaels I got kind of tired of his Superkick-I'm-dead-can't-cover shtick, but after being destroyed by all of Taker's finishers and kicking out, it was more enjoyable and suspenseful here than I can remember. And it was executed way better than I remember it being. Taker's selling was really what made this for me, though. He is so great at stumbling around blurry-eyed trying to stay up, and I think that's sort of tough to pull off credibly when you're built as an unstoppable zombie man. Of course the DDT reversal by Michaels WAS really shitty, though. I try to give it the benefit of the doubt by saying Shawn has eaten so much pain that it affected his game, but still, it shouldn't look that fucking bad. The finish of the match, to me, was a pretty great continuation (or finish, I guess) of what was sort of the theme of the match. A lot of the meat of the match was taking risks with the potential of paying for it, and Michaels went to the top rope to try the moonsault once again. And that moonsault finished him. Overall I don't think this is a classic or an all time great match, but it's a great match. A top ten WrestleMania match and probably the best match either Michaels or Taker had post-90s. And that's good enough for me.



I'll watch XXVI later.

Yeah1993 is offline  
post #8573 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 04:12 AM
Déesse de L'extase
 
HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Electric Chapel.
Posts: 33,526
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
                     
Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I seem the be the only guy who never acknowledges the sloppy DDT counter. Small potatoes in the drama filled finishing stretch. Didn't bother me one bit.

Nouvelle Vague.
Dance. Sex. Art. Pop.
HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES is offline  
post #8574 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 04:18 AM
Fired by SCOTT STEINER
 
Ether's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: New York City
Posts: 5,041
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
                     
Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Watched the HBK vs Bret greatest rivalries on Netflix, great stuff. I was interested the whole way, JR did a great job. I was when Shawn was talking about his "knee injury" and Bret's face was like "yeah, this guy's still a bit of a prick". Seriously Shawn, just come clean about your "injury". Very good otherwise, I'd for an Austin vs Rock DVD like this.

Oh, and them both getting really emotional in about the last 20 mins were strong stuff. I didn't know about some of the stuff that was said here also. For example, I didn't know Vince called Bret in the hospital "10 seconds" after his phone got hooked up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREDMI View Post
You're fucken damn right, you've rustled my jimmies & I assume everyone else's!!! I tell you what, I'll pay your airfare over to Melbourne, it will only be a one way ticket though, because I will KILL you, you child molesting fuckwit!!!

Last edited by Ether; 11-06-2012 at 05:16 AM.
Ether is offline  
post #8575 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 05:59 AM
Ben Wyatt's Low Cal Calzone Zone
 
NORRIS COLE'S HAIRY FANNY TICKLER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Golfing with Stephen Hawking, he lied about his handicap. Didn't need a golf cart though, I just sat in his lap.
Posts: 5,718
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
                     
Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Nice thoughts Yeah1993 re Michaels/Taker. Agreed with your comments on Taker's great selling ability, which as you say is made all the more difficult when you consider the gimmick/character he has to work with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moustache View Post
If I may ask, why don't you consider Michaels a great worker? I'd personally put him somewhere in my top 10 or so (North American, anyway).
I'm talking more his 2002-2010 run, seeing as a lot of his first singles run is a blur outside of a few recogniseable matches, but generally I just have issues with his offence, his long term selling and the general layout of a lot of his matches post 2002.

A lot of the matches I used to like no longer hold up, Summerslam 2002, Wrestlemania 19 (that one is all on Michaels, since Jericho puts in one of his best performances), Wrestlemania 21 and Vengeance 05, Michaels/Jericho Unforgiven 08 etc. I've grown to appreciate workers who are more subtle in their craft and really work to not only create stories which dominate the moves in the ring, but also include minor little things which not a lot of other people think/care to do, someone like an Arn Anderson, William Regal or Fit Finlay is definitely better than Michaels in my eyes for this very reason. I don't really care for the played out workover of the back > knip up > finishing stretch sequence in a ton of Michaels matches, and whilst I understand that sort of formula is prevalent with a lot of WWE workers, I don't find him good enough in the workover or selling the match as I do Cena or Mysterio who also have very similar/played out formulas which they rarely deviate from. Shawn's dire acting is also something that really detracts from his matches when he really hams it up, the Unsanctioned Jericho match at Unforgiven 08 springs to mind as far as singles matches go.

Michaels is absolutely amazing in tags though, since it plays to his short term selling strengths and the ability to pull a crowd into his matches, whilst allowing him to tag out to Jannetty and therefore remove the burden of long term selling from the equation as well as keeping his offence to basis bursts rather than dragging it out over 15 minutes. He's at the very minimum a top 10 US guy in tags, hell top 5 really isn't out of the question although I'd have to rewatch the likes of Steamboat, Rhodes, Morton, Eaton, Arn, Tully and others before settling on it.

There are definitely things Michaels can do well, and there are still a few matches post 2002 I'm a big fan of, but at this point his style of working a match and what he'll do inside a ring aren't really what I look for or can get engaged by. I find guys like Mysterio and Cena to be better faces in terms of making me want to watch their matches, and the likes of Regal, Finlay, Arn Anderson, Sgt Slaughter, Bill Dundee, Dick Murdoch and many others are far more interesting characters and performers in the ring to me.
NORRIS COLE'S HAIRY FANNY TICKLER is offline  
post #8576 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 07:49 AM
Déesse de L'extase
 
HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Electric Chapel.
Posts: 33,526
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
                     
Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Upon a lack of sleep I found myself pages back in this thread and stumbled upon Caida's review of the Rock n Roll Express/Jim Duggan vs Midnight Express/Ernie Ladd 6 man and Midnight Express vs Fantastics 4/26/88 matches. Now whenever I get time tomorrow, those are gonna be watched ASAP. Owe it to myself to witness what the rave reviews spoke of.

Plus considering it involves my favorite tag team of all time in both (well, the Eaton/Lane combo moreso) I have to check them out on that basis alone.

Nouvelle Vague.
Dance. Sex. Art. Pop.
HAYLEY'S XMAS TWITTER NUDES is offline  
post #8577 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 08:50 AM
✯✯✯ Kissing Under the Mistletoe ✯✯✯
 
Clique's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Irving, TX by way of Chicago, IL
Posts: 18,629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
                     
Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hailsabin View Post
I seem the be the only guy who never acknowledges the sloppy DDT counter. Small potatoes in the drama filled finishing stretch. Didn't bother me one bit.
Desperation move that looked desperate in the middle of high drama. Give me that over a wrestler's "text-booked" yet lifelessly executed moves/match.


THIS CHRISTMAS
ALL I'M REALLY ASKING FOR IS YOU

Clique is offline  
post #8578 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 09:12 AM
Keep you lovin' brother happy
 
Craig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: A pavement in Glasgow with alcohol poisioning
Posts: 3,424
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
                     
Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Undertaker is seriously a great seller, think my favorite selling of his is either his return at Summerslam 2010 where he's meant to be just out of the VEGETATIVE STATE and he can hardly sit up and he's hobbling and coughing all over the place, still pisses me off that folk thought that was just him being genuinely old and out of shape, although it does show how good that sell job was. I've also got a real appreciation for when Edge cashed in on him, he sits up from the first spear but he does it really slowly and he's wobbling around and is clearly struggling to get up and its GREAT.


Craig is offline  
post #8579 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 09:50 AM
Fired by SCOTT STEINER
 
Ether's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: New York City
Posts: 5,041
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
                     
Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Just rewatched Austin/HHH 2/3 Falls

....Does anyone not have this match at at least **** 3/4?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREDMI View Post
You're fucken damn right, you've rustled my jimmies & I assume everyone else's!!! I tell you what, I'll pay your airfare over to Melbourne, it will only be a one way ticket though, because I will KILL you, you child molesting fuckwit!!!
Ether is offline  
post #8580 of 20566 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 11:06 AM
Still the GOAT
 
King Trips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Revis Island
Posts: 4,787
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
                     
Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ether View Post
Just rewatched Austin/HHH 2/3 Falls

....Does anyone not have this match at at least **** 3/4?

IIRC this thread is VERY split on that match in general, personally I absolutely love it.

It features the GOAT ... Vs ... What could you NOT love ? :hhh





"He's not the biggest. He was never the strongest. He was never the fastest. He was overlooked. He went in the sixth round. So with that being said, all of the intangibles that a quarterback is supposed to have, they overlooked it with him because it was burning from inside of him" - Ray Lewis on Tom Brady
King Trips is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome