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Old 11-05-2012, 06:31 PM   #8551 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

All the major Rock marks are fucking idiots who post in the GOAT thread and various other threads.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:42 PM   #8552 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Rockers vs Brainbusters, WWF MSG (1/23/89)



Oh man, this is the shit right here. Opening babyface stretch is just so much fun with numerous comedy spots at the Brainbusters' expense and a really neat sub story with the Rockers utilising a few tricks the Brainbusters would generally utilise to distract the ref and stop Arn getting tagged into the match. Couple of early standout spots had to be Michaels getting pulled into the Brainbusters' corner and immediately escaping through the ropes to the floor, Blanchard pulling Michaels close to the corner only for Shawn to let go and send Blanchard flying into an unsuspecting Arn on the apron and the brilliant fabled tag team spot where Michaels enters the ring, catches Jannetty as he's double suplexed and brings him onto his feet and allows the Rockers to hit a dual superkick to send the Brainbusters bailing to the floor. Whole extened opening was just incredibly engaging with Arn doing some terrific punch drunk selling off of a Jannetty punch combo, and the sub plot with the Rockers out-thinking the Brainbusters and having their number at every opportunity really helped the flow of the match leading into the transition spot.

Speaking of the transition spot, its fucking tremendous. Blanchard is finally able to create some distance on the floor and baits the inexperienced Michaels into charging after him with Arn waiting around the corner ready to lariat an unsuspecting Michaels. The entire setup however may have been immediately bettered by Tully's AMAZING STRUT, holy shit it was incredible on a scale of utter douchebag and the smug grin fucking sealed it. Michaels playing FIP was naturally the peak of the match and he was more than assisted by Arn and Tully who really excel as the veterans now utilising all their experience to bait Jannetty into the ring and regularly distracting the ref allowing them to double team, choke, switch during abdominal stretches and generally just isolate Michaels from Jannetty for what feels like an eternity. Hope spot where Michaels charges over Arn into the corner and Jannetty almost falls into the ring as he reaches for the tag only to miss by an inch was a peach of a tease, and the way it setup the following Michaels flurry and hot tag was impeccable.

Jannetty again kicks ass off of the hot tag, bringing plenty of fire, energy and passion and the crowd is now amped. Finishing stretch is short but oh so sweet with the Busters trying to exploit their younger counterparts and out-manouevre them, and sadly for the Rockers they succeed as during a distraction Arn is able to sweep the leg of Jannetty from the floor as he attempts a suplex on Tully, and then holds down the leg of Jannetty as Blanchard lands on top of Jannetty for the victory. Really great way to cap off a terrific match chock full of tag team specialities, a terrific story which dominated the beginning, middle and end of the match, the Rockers ultimately being outsmarted by the Busters after dominating them in the beginning through intelligence...just magnificent.


Rockers vs Brainbusters, WWF Boston Garden (3/18/89)



Another sterling effort from both these teams here. Match again features a very similar layout to the 1/23 match with the Rockers controlling the majority of the opening and again showing their intelligence in using Brainbuster tactics to infuriate Blanchard and Anderson and continually prevent them from tagging out to escape the onslaught. Arn has a couple of really comical moments where he begs for a time out as well as nearly tagging in Jannetty by mistake only to bail at the last second and Blanchard's strut after winning the first lockup is just hysterical. Small touch that I really enjoyed came when both the Rockers had figure fours on both the Brainbusters and Arn after being released took the opportunity to rake the eyes of Jannetty who was still getting up from the hold. It didn't set up the control sequence like a similar spot did in the Flair/Arn vs Hogan/Savage tag from Nitro, but I really loved just how aware Arn was to do something like that.

Actual transition spot again pays off from the early story of the Brainbusters being out wrestled and out thought by the Rockers, only for Arn to draw Michaels off the apron and allow them to drop Jannetty throat first off the ropes. The following control sequence might actualy eclipse that of the 1/23 match, with Jannetty really being abused by the Brainbusters who constantly pull the ref aside to set up illegal double teams and a sick spot where Arn chokes Jannetty with the tag rope. Michaels constantly gets drawn in by the Busters who really begin to find their feat in controlling and isolating Jannetty and I loved the teasing of a hot tag to Michaels being broken up by an expectant Blanchard who again draws Michaels and the referee aside long enough for Arn to toss Jannetty to the floor and prolong the misery. Should mention in all of this that Jannetty takes a lunatic missed crossbody bump to the floor via the turnbuckle which really looked frightening.

Hot tag to Michaels is again perfectly timed after an excellent Jannetty FIP section and the finishing stretch is suitably chaotic with Michaels full of piss and vinegar trying to avenge the mugging of Jannetty whilst the Brainbusters seek to take advantage of any opening. Michaels however manages to overcome Arn via a superkick on the floor and then performs a rocket launcher via Jannetty assistance to Blanchard only for Arn to yank the referee out of the ring as he was set to count 3 and force a DQ victory for the Rockers. Finish could be bothersome to a few, but I loved it and it came off as a suitably dick move for Arn to take a DQ loss rather than be fairly beaten by the Rockers. Heat was monumental as well for Arn's scumbaggery.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:49 PM   #8553 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Yeah1993 View Post
I've never been on the Ziggler train. I started liking him in 2010 as a midcarder (after hating him), but his way of working a big main event/World Title match is terrible. I never want to watch his Orton or Sheamus or Punk PPV matches from this year again. Good bumper, but he oversells. Can be pretty boring on offense.

Watched a Smiley match earlier this year. I remember watching it literally the day before you first mentioned it in this thread. Mind-reading weirdo.

Malenko's really, really hit or miss, but he definitely excels at the short WorldWide/Pro/Saturday Night/Any WCW B-Show matches. His best long matches and performances are v Ultimo at Starrcade and v Mysterio from Germany.

Malenko v La Parka? THAT I have to fucking see. Michaels/Taker can wait.
Yeah Malenko impressed me in both matches. His execution and fluidity in the ring isn't questionable, and therefore he definitely excells in the shorter matches where his holds can be used in a more painful fashion rather than having to be stretched out over numerous minutes. The Parka match wasn't as good as the Smiley encounter, largely because I prefer the British style Norman brought but its still damn good and you get some great Parka and Eddie fuckery.

Malenko vs Eddie from the House Show in 97 is excellent and their best match together, though its one of Eddie's finest performances in the year and considering the role he was on in 1997 that is saying something. I think the Ultimo match did make my list in the end for WCW, remember being plesantly surprised by how well it turned out given its Malenko and Ultimo.

Your comments on Ziggler are pretty much the same as me. Interested to hear if you think he could work better as a face? I'd be interested since his bumping is tailor made for a face as well as a comedy heel, and I think the 'Show off' character is something that could easily be tweaked into a babyface character if they play up Ziggler's pride in not taking a shortcut with the MITB and trying to cash it in honourably in order to fully 'steal the show'.

EDIT: oops at the DP.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:50 PM   #8554 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

They didn't show up until 2/14/11 too. Ugg.

ECW 5/19/09
Dave Finlay vs David Hart Smith ~ ***1/2


Strong outing from Smith in his re-debut with the company. These guys went out there and said "fuck WWE style. we're working this our way." Which they did. Completely fixated on the ground game. Striker was EXCELLENT on commentary in this match. Pointed out every single thing that needed to be said to grasp the simple psychology behind the match. Continuing to put over the veteran experience of Finlay. Putting over Smith to actually sound like a credible threat vs Finlay. Even dropped a World of Sport reference in the early going. Now, I might put this a notch higher than some. Smith's weardown segments, which last for about 8 minutes out of the 14:47, could be labled as boring. For me they came off as logical, solid ground work. Brought it to Finlay in the aspect that he could completely smother him on the offense as soon as he found an opening. Now while I did dig this match, it has one HUGE negative in it. The top wristlock/arm weardown that Finlay did in about the first 5 minutes of the match were completely FORGOTTEN by Smith the moment he shifted the momentum his way. That was bad. Not even a single sign of it. If it wasn't for that this match would have been rated even higher in my book.

Interesting match nonetheless. Worked for me. Slow, but the good kind of slow. I think if Smith tried this match with a different opponent it may have been the worse match ever. Finlay is so awesome, and well trained to work a match like this, that it clicked on most levels pardon the lack of selling by Smith.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:53 PM   #8555 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Edge vs. Chris Benoit - WWE Smackdown 06/07/2007

When I dissect a wrestling match I often look to how the maneuvers performed by the wrestlers are tied into delivering storytelling and psychology. This match excels in telling the story of two men looking to deliver a physically intense match but also to prove who is better. As far as psychology is concerned, the corner turnbuckle would play a major role several times throughout the match (along with several other shifts).

To start the match off, Benoit frustrates Edge with crisp arm drags which almost pull his arm out of socket because of their aggressive and technically sound delivery. Benoit punishes Edge literally from pillar to post in the first half of the contest with knife-edge chops, vicious knee shots to the head, and an explosive Irish Whip into the corner turnbuckle. What I like most about Benoit in this match is his constant use of knee shots to the head of Edge. Whether Benoit was on offense or defense, he continued to attack Edge with those unmerciful blows to the head. It made it look like Benoit was attempting to knock Edge out at any point in the match and it adds authenticity from my perspective. The Canadian Crippler then applied a European headlock on the World's Champion to add more pressure to the head and neck region of Edge which Benoit knows was once broken.

But Edge was able to shift the match in his favor with an explosive Irish Whip of his own sending Benoit crashing sternum first into the top corner turnbuckle. Bret Hart made this spot famous but Benoit made it look more brutal than ever before. Both Edge and Benoit sell the physicality of the fight extremely well here. Edge sells Benoit’s chops like a knife is actually cutting through his chest and Benoit sells the sternum shot as if his heart was about to stop.

Loved Edge's attack on Benoit’s shoulder with the intent to eliminate the Crippler Crossface. They feature some good payback spots here with one man attacking the body part the other man initially attacked. Every exchange is connected together so well. Benoit makes his matches some manly when he uses those session of headbutts to escape a hold or win a striking exchange.

The “Ultimate Opportunist” sets the match in his favor again by smartly using Benoit’s momentum to send him shoulder first into the top turnbuckle. Again, a lot of the match psychology is focused on momentum shifters with the turnbuckle and using the corner for an advantage. Edge would use Benoit’s momentum against him this time sending the worked over shoulder into the steel post. The psychology is very precise and perfect fit with into the finish. This is the last great match of Benoit's career.

Match Rating - ****
Link to watch - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x28...is-benoit_news



Edge vs. CM Punk - WWE Smackdown 04/25/2008

At one time this was sort of a dream match for many wrestling fans pitting Edge’s sexual, crude, and sleazy “Rated R lifestyle” against Punk’s disciplined, no drugs/alcohol, and honorable “Straight Edge lifestyle.” This match came about when Punk called Edge out on being dishonorable for sleeping with General Manager Vickie Guerrero just to stay at the top on Smackdown.

What I liked from many of Edge’s matches in 2008 is the pacing and psychology he used with a deliberate start and thrilling finish. He perfected his “Ultimate Opportunist” character to a tee by picking apart his opponent and manipulating every situation in the most intelligent ways. It made sense for him not to rush a match but to set the pace and find an opening to capitalize on.

On the other hand, we have CM Punk who employed a mixed style of holds and strikes into this match with submissions and kicks. I truly appreciate Punk’s ability to sell a beating so realistically and get his fans rooting for him so easily. Even though it was CM Punk that tried his own psychological game plan by methodically dissecting Edge’s arm in an attempt to take out the Spear, Edge would find his opening when CM Punk fell off the top turnbuckle with his back landing on the edge of the ring apron. Edge capitalized on Punk’s injured back by superbly working over it with knee shots and a body scissors. This is smart because Punk had been through multiple grueling matches all week long with the King of the Ring Tournament on RAW and a tag team match on ECW and Edge took advantage of Punk's durability being taken to the limit. As I pointed out earlier, Punk’s selling is stellar and you can see the pain from the agony in his eyes and the groans he made.

When Punk made his comeback the match instantly picked up to a frenetic pace which meant so much at that point because the slow build allowed for me to be more engaged in the story Edge and Punk were telling. Pacing is so important in giving meaning to counter moves and false finishes they executed. The best wrestlers know how to structure the match to effectively pull it off. Punk gave some kicks to Edge towards the final stretch that really tested his durability at that point. I loved the slow burn pacing to the finish that featured some shenanigans in the end which I didn't mind for this TV match as it was done in a way were the loser still looked strong.

Match Rating - *** 1/2
Link to watch - http://www.wwe.com/videos/smackdown-...52008-26008826

They also had a good match earlier that year on Smackdown -
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:54 PM   #8556 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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They didn't show up until 2/14/11 too. Ugg.

ECW 5/19/09
Dave Finlay vs David Hart Smith ~ ***1/2


Strong outing from Smith in his re-debut with the company. These guys went out there and said "fuck WWE style. we're working this our way." Which they did. Completely fixated on the ground game. Striker was EXCELLENT on commentary in this match. Pointed out every single thing that needed to be said to grasp the simple psychology behind the match. Continuing to put over the veteran experience of Finlay. Putting over Smith to actually sound like a credible threat vs Finlay. Even dropped a World of Sport reference in the early going. Now, I might put this a notch higher than some. Smith's weardown segments, which last for about 8 minutes out of the 14:47, could be labled as boring. For me they came off as logical, solid ground work. Brought it to Finlay in the aspect that he could completely smother him on the offense as soon as he found an opening. Now while I did dig this match, it has one HUGE negative in it. The top wristlock/arm weardown that Finlay did in about the first 5 minutes of the match were completely FORGOTTEN by Smith the moment he shifted the momentum his way. That was bad. Not even a single sign of it. If it wasn't for that this match would have been rated even higher in my book.

Interesting match nonetheless. Worked for me. Slow, but the good kind of slow. I think if Smith tried this match with a different opponent it may have been the worse match ever. Finlay is so awesome, and well trained to work a match like this, that it clicked on most levels pardon the lack of selling by Smith.
Smith worked a really fun WOS esque match on the last Superstars of 2010 with Regal. I remember thinking at the time it was comfortably the best Smith match I'd seen to date. Nice review there though, its Finlay so I'll gladly track it down at some point.

Finlay/Kidd from ECW 09 is also pretty nifty for the time it gets. Highlight being Finlay transitioning from a cloverleaf into a double knee to the spine spot.

EDIT: nice thoughts Clique. I recall Edge/Benoit being one of Edge's better matches of the 00s.

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Old 11-05-2012, 06:59 PM   #8557 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Your comments on Ziggler are pretty much the same as me. Interested to hear if you think he could work better as a face? I'd be interested since his bumping is tailor made for a face as well as a comedy heel, and I think the 'Show off' character is something that could easily be tweaked into a babyface character if they play up Ziggler's pride in not taking a shortcut with the MITB and trying to cash it in honourably in order to fully 'steal the show'.
Yeah, I've said plenty of times (first time was I think after No Waay Out) I think Ziggy could use a face turn. His bumping could be a symapthy-grabber. Sometime ago it seemed Vickie wanted to turn her back on him but didn't, IDK where they went with that. Another good time would be when he and Swagger were teaming. Dolph could have turned face in that. The crowd dislikes Vickie so much that anybody who goes against her would be instantly liked, I think. Dolph's already connected to her, so it's really written on the wall.

EDIT: Edge/Benoit is really awesome. Second best Edge match I can remember. It was a week before Benoit died, too. Ridiculous that he could pull that off then.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:04 PM   #8558 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Segunda Caida View Post
Smith worked a really fun WOS esque match on the last Superstars of 2010 with Regal. I remember thinking at the time it was comfortably the best Smith match I'd seen to date. Nice review there though, its Finlay so I'll gladly track it down at some point.

Finlay/Kidd from ECW 09 is also pretty nifty for the time it gets. Highlight being Finlay transitioning from a cloverleaf into a double knee to the spine spot.

EDIT: nice thoughts Clique. I recall Edge/Benoit being one of Edge's better matches of the 00s.
Oh, tell me about it. I own that match on DVD. Love it, love it, love it. Was blown away by them working it that style when I first saw it. I'd put the Regal match above this Finlay match. Still worth a watch imo. Both matches vs Kidd were really good, too. ***1/4 & *** respectively. Which is pretty darn good considering they were only 7 minutes each.

I don't remember that Edge/Benoit match one single bit. I want to watch right now but all of my focus is towards ECW. (which means I'm literally passing up a Edge/Benoit match for a Vladimir Koslov squash.)

Speaking of Edge matches on Smackdown that owned: he worked one in 2009 vs John Morrison that I recall being REALLY exhuberant and good. Put Morrison's face push over the top in the best way possible. Better than the exhibitions vs Benjamin did. Considering the level of Edge.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:07 PM   #8559 (permalink)
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Edge vs. Chris Benoit - WWE Smackdown 06/07/2007
Very good match. Last ever Smackdown match for Benoit right before he was drafted, was on ECW two weeks and then died. With all the injuries at the time, Benoit could have been the perfect World Champion instead of The Great Khali for the summer if he had stayed on Smackdown and the tragedy hadn't happened. Damn.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:26 PM   #8560 (permalink)
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I don't remember that Edge/Benoit match one single bit. I want to watch right now but all of my focus is towards ECW. (which means I'm literally passing up a Edge/Benoit match for a Vladimir Koslov squash.)




I agree Morrison's face run on Smackdown in 2009 (it really started with his ECW match with Bourne) was exceptional for him. He had very good showings in TV matches with Edge, Punk, Hardy, Umaga, Mysterio, and Ziggler during that period. I adore his IC Title match against Mysterio in September.
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