Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 83 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, ROH, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:13 PM   #821 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I legit lost my shit watching the HIAC lol. Lost my voice and lost all of my energy until Rock/Cena. Don't remember the last time I was actually jumping up and down from marking out like a damn kid. Not one person in that arena was sitting down from the second JR walked down that aisle. I actually had to go stand outside and get a refill of some water and to get a breather during the tag match it took that much out of me. Crowd completely died after it too which is understandable. But holy fucking shit what a match. I still can't believe that I've been to Mania 25-28 and got to personally witness all the matches in this incredible series live in person. What a storybook. Watching the 3 of them walk out together like that and then take one last look at the standing ovation they were receiving was just...special. I'll never forget it.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:54 PM   #822 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Gonna watch Mania now. On first viewing I didn't think Shawn's acting was very good in the Cell but at the same time the dynamic his character brought to the match definitely added to the drama and the story.
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Old 04-04-2012, 01:21 PM   #823 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ownage™ View Post
Gonna watch Mania now. On first viewing I didn't think Shawn's acting was very good in the Cell but at the same time the dynamic his character brought to the match definitely added to the drama and the story.
I haven't watched Mania on TV yet. So far I'm only able to go on what I felt and experienced in the stadium. I can't wait to watch both the HIAC and Rock/Cena back though. Jericho/Punk too for that matter because I hardly remember any of it. The HIAC completely drained all my energy. I didn't have anything left for Jericho/Punk at that point tbh.
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:06 PM   #824 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I definitely prefer Michaels' in-ring performances post-return, but his facial expressions during matches just became horrific and embarassing to watch.

Rock and Brock's pops on RAW give me goosebumps every time I watch them, as does the pop when Rock gets the win over Cena. The way the camera cuts away to a wide shot of the crowd you can see literally EVERYBODY going totally bonkers crazy in joy. Gives me chills.
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:39 PM   #825 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ownage™ View Post
Gonna watch Mania now. On first viewing I didn't think Shawn's acting was very good in the Cell but at the same time the dynamic his character brought to the match definitely added to the drama and the story.
Be good to see how you feel.

I got Punk/Jericho at ****1/4 on first watch, will watch again tomorrow. Im going to watch Trips/Taker from WM 27 first before the HIAC, makes sense.
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Old 04-04-2012, 07:15 PM   #826 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
It's a quality of the match. I doesn't matter if you care about it or not (well not for my argument's purpose at least). Do you like crowd reaction? Atmosphere? Ring psychology? Storytelling? Selling? MOVEZZ? Spectacle is a part of the match as these other qualities are (I'm in no way insinuating that they are all equally as important b/c they're not).
I know it's a quality of the match, and I won't try to change any opinion you have. I don't think we'll disagree that story is the most important part of the match (you might, but you have to think it's near the top yeah?). Spectacle, on the other hand, doesn't mean as much to me as it does you. Don't get me wrong, I like a big match feel, but a big match feel won't make any bad match good.

MOVEZZ is a talking point, but it's...weird to talk about. I don't like Dean Malenko-like chain-for-chain wrestling because he pretty much destroys any potential for a story. Mysterio debuts in WCW and he works over his arm- not letting Rey get much offense, and when Rey DOES get offense, he's gotta shrug the arm work because you have to believe the WCW higher-ups wanted him to bust out crazy-ass shit that Malenko should have been pushing him to do in the first place. Malenko's moves looked cool, but they went no where.

Austin v Benoit 5/31/01- Austin works injured ribs, and does this fucking ridiculous reverse suplex on the announce table. He could have done just about anything but that suplex was a "move" and without sounding sadistic, is one of my favourites spots in wrestling history.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
Magically? I simply stated that spectacle amplifies the nature of the match. If it's good, spectacle can push it into being very good (Rock/Hogan, Austin/Rock), and vice versa (Hogan/Sting, Orton/Triple H).
Let's pretend Punk/Henry has a year-long build up yet they work the exact same match- is it any better? This isn't a rhetorical being-a-jackass question. I'm just curious where you sit on that. I totally get the spectacle can make the match feel more important, but I'm trying to imagine Punk/Henry with the exact same match but a long rivalry. Unless the finish is a call-back and not merely...well a disappointing count-out, I wouldn't see any reason to call it better.

@ the bold part- that has less affect on me than probably anyone else. I mean Rock/Austin WAS a spectacle, but I don't even think about the reaction when the match is brought up, I think of a fucking awesome wrestling match, that even in front of twenty five people in a gymnasium, would be a fucking awesome wrestling match. Chris Hero and Ian Rotten worked a match from an IWA-MS show in 2002 in front of like thirteen people, and I honestly think that was better than something like Michaels/Angle, which had the glamour and big-match feel of WrestleMania. Michaels/Angle is still good to me (we'll see), but the spectacle doesn't make it go up from "just good." For me. Yeah.

Also "magically" was a term I used b/c I felt I was saying "instantly" and "automatically" too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
First things first. I don't have anything bad to say about Hunter vs. Triple H. I'm not cutting it any slack b/c there's nothing about the match that bothers me. It does have a much more complicated story than Henry vs. Punk (again, assumption) so it does have deeper impact. It affects me more than a match with a pretty linear story would. I know I shouldn't expand on this b/c I haven't seen Punk vs. Henry. I'm just going by your description of the match.
Punk/Henry's story isn't as "deep" as HHH/Taker's. The idea of something being "deep" in pro wrestling in the first place doesn't sit with me, but for lack of a better term I'll use that. Deeper just =/= better match for me. Though I'm not implying a match with less story is = better match.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
I didn't think the Mania match was pulled off poorly at all. If it was, it'd have fallen into Triple H/Orton territory, where they had the story served on a platter and just ruined it.
I didn't like HHH/Orton because they didn't really work the angles like they should have. I didn't like HHH/Taker because, while they still worked the angles, they did it badly. To me, anyway- I'm not going to get in a vicious cycle over Shawn's acting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
Why not? Evoking greater emotion in the viewer = greater success, surely? And I'm obviously not talking about emotion circa Bryan/Sheamus b/c that was just in poor taste. But I don't see why the original point isn't valid.
This is a "bad match/good story" "good match/little story" thing that's touched on below. Unless I missed the point. You're not saying a match filled with plodding shit, yet had a story pulled of wonderfully is better than a match with great un-plodding shit is better than a match with little story, but that's the impression I guess I got from somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
Yes. I wouldn't have said that if I thought Triple H and Taker did poor work of the story they had, but they didn't imo. I can imagine Henry vs. Punk being good, great even, maybe better than Rock vs. Cena b/c they didn't really do that well with everything they had, but I don't think Triple H vs. Undertaker HIAC could've been much better (yes, certain things could have but it wouldn't have created a big gap in quality).
So it's more "how they pulled the story off" instead of the actual story (to some degree- otherwise you'd think Rock/Cena was instantly better, yeah?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
Let me say it again just so there's no confusion caused from my part. I think Triple H vs. Undertaker was very well worked.
I never got the impression otherwise, nor did I think that you were implying Punk/Henry definitely wasn't good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
Also, maybe I should've worked it differently. Lack of tact on my part and I apologize if I sounded like a douche (was certainly not my intention to do so). But I'm just 100% confident that I won't like Punk/Henry more than Trips/Taker.
Oh I didn't think you sounded like a douche at all. And I've read thoughts on wrestling matches a million times that make me think I won't like it anywhere near as much as other stuff. If I watch Richards v Elgin from last weekend and think it's better than Punk v Henry I will extract my own ribcage and eat my own dick, but yeah 'laughable's kind of the term that got me confused there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
No I'm saying that a great match with a great story is better than a great match with a good story.
I guess the only difference is you thought Trip/Taker was a great match, then. My opinion's:

Punk/Henry:
Story: Good. Pulled of excellently.
Match: Really good.

HHH/Taker:
Story: Really good. Pulled off meh-ish.
Match: Mix of pretty friggin' good and pretty friggin' bad.

IDK how this would sound to someone who loved Trip/Taker, but if they took that story out I probably would have enjoyed it more. Not ALL the story, but I'd rather it go no further than "Helmsley wants this win, Taker wants this win- they do call backs from last year" and beat the fuck out of each other. Story isn't the only issue I had with the match, though. Thought it plodded badly and just wasn't a good brawl at all (some of it was). HHH using everything he can to get up and fight back is nice, but it's not going to turn "not a good brawl" into "a great brawl" for me.

Again, the difference with this point (and one we'd have no reason to debate about), is that you thought the match was actually great.

-------------------

Michaels: I'm probably lower on 2000s Michaels than anyone here. His best match of that decade (inc. 2010) to me is the first Taker Mania match and I've thought that was clearly a Taker match every time I've watch it (Michaels was good). I wouldn't put that match in Michaels' top 5 and his best performances all come from pre-98 to me. 06 had him practically sucking shit and 96 had him pretty much carrying Kevin Nash and Sid to their best matches. In the 90s he was up against better workers at times like Hart and Vader and managed to outperform them. But yeah, different strokes. Can o' worms stay closed.
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Old 04-04-2012, 07:33 PM   #827 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I absolutely fucking ADORE Shawn's first title reign in 96. I haven't given it much thought of course, but I believe that his particular reign at that time was the best WWF/WWE title reign since the Hogan/Golden Age Era, match quality wise. I really can't think of a better one.

Here is a list of his PPV title matches/defences w/o star ratings:

WM 12 Ironman: Meh
IYH 7 vs Diesel: LOVE LOVE LOVE.... Nash's best match IMO.
KOTR 96 vs Bulldog: LOVE.
SS 96 vs Vader: I fucking ADORE this match
Mind Games vs Mankind: One of my all-time favorites...Amazing match
SS 96 vs Sid: Sid's best match, a personal favorite that I mark out to. AMAZING.

Plus, he had numerous TV matches with the likes of HHH, Owen, Goldust, Yokozuna, Marty Jannety, and STEVE AUSTIN, amongst others. Can anybody name a title reign POST-Backlund that rivals Shawn's in match quality?
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Old 04-04-2012, 07:57 PM   #828 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Whoever booked Danielson/Sheamus should be fired immediately. Also Triple H/Taker is being mostly overrated for the second straight year. HIAC with pretty much no cell work is complete BS. Why not just have another no holds barred match with HBK as ref because that is pretty much what they did. Overall thought the show was great. Punk/Jericho and Rock/Cena were amazing. I will give my preliminary ratings but I need to watch it again.

Sheamus/Bryan - Two middle fingers to WWE
Kane/Orton - ***
Show/Rhodes - **1/4
Divas - don't remember because i wasn't paying attention
Triple H/Taker - ***3/4 (and that is generous)
Team Teddy/Team Johnny - **1/2
Punk/Jericho - ****
Rock/Cena - ****
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:01 PM   #829 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Word View Post
Be good to see how you feel.

I got Punk/Jericho at ****1/4 on first watch, will watch again tomorrow. Im going to watch Trips/Taker from WM 27 first before the HIAC, makes sense.
Just watched Punk/Jericho. Great match. Review coming up after Cena/Rock.
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:00 PM   #830 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Batista: I Walk Alone

Documentary

Dave Batista never really struck me as a person who loved the business. He seemed like another musclehead who failed at bodybuilding but took up wrestling as a side project, and due to Vince's homoerotic love for muscle bound bodybuilders, ended up with a contract and a huge push. I could not have been more wrong. After watching this documentary, the words I have to describe Dave Batista would be: Respect, honour, caring, mentally AND physically empowering.

This would have to be one of the more personal superstar documentaries I have ever seen. We get a glimpse into Batista's personal life before his wrestling days, as well as his struggles early on in the business, being told that he would never amount to anything at the WCW power plant. Boy, did he ever prove that guy wrong. Batista grew up in a rough neighbourhood, but his story is one of perseverance, using the love he received from his partner, his mother, and his friends, as well as a personal desire, to get to the top.

Batista's respect for the business really shines through in the documentary, as you can see him just LIGHTING up when talking about the respect he has for Ric Flair, Triple H, and The Undertaker. Watching Big Dave break down while talking about his personal relationship with Eddie is just heartbreaking as well. I didn't realize until after this documentary that Batista has wrestled in a few MOTY contenders with the workers that he respects the most.

All in all, this documentary runs smooth, and I can honestly say it's one of the best single superstar doc's I have ever seen, with a perfect mix of Wrestling-related and personal-related discussion. I absolutely love it, and give it a watch when you can, as it will completely change your perception of Batista the wrestler AND the individual himself.

9/10

Matches

Disc Two

Leviathan vs Doug Basham OVW 01: ** 1/4
Batista vs Kane ARM 02: *
Batista vs Shawn Michaels ARM 03: ***
Batista/Ric Flair vs The Dudley Boyz: **
Batista vs Chris Jericho VEN 04: ** 3/4
Royal Rumble 2005 (Ending): N/A
Batista vs Triple H WM 21: ***
Batista vs Triple H HIAC VEN 05: **** 3/4
Batista vs JBL SS 05: ***
Batista vs Eddie Guerrero NM 05: ***

Disc Three

Batista vs King Booker SS 06: ** 1/4
Batista vs King Booker vs Finlay SD 06: *** 3/4
Batista vs The Undertaker WM 23: **** 1/2
Batista vs Edge Cage ONS 07: ** 3/4
Batista vs The Undertaker CS 07: **** 1/4
Evolution vs Orton/Edge/Umaga RAW 07: N/A
Batista vs John Cena SS 08: ****
Batista vs Randy Orton ARM 08: ** 3/4

Here are a few observations I took away from the match ratings:

Looking at the match listing, this DVD follows, succeeds, and suffers in the exact areas that the HHH: King of Kings did. Instead of being "Batista's greatest matches" (although it DID actually include Batista's 2 best matches, but I digress), it served more as the history of the animal, rather than a best of comp. We get an OVW match, Batista's 1st PPV singles match, his first BIG PPV singles match, a Flair match, Rumble/HHH matches, an Eddie match, the second title win, a few matches that highlight his major feuds such as Edge/JBL/Taker, etc, and his match with Cena. Sounds like a Dave Batista history lesson if you ask me.

While I HATE a few of these selections, here are a few of the match selections that I adore: CS vs Taker was the most underrated match of 2007, overshadowed by the amazing WM 23 encounter,SS vs JBL is one of the most underrated matches I've ever seen, as people shit on it constantly all the time but I just love how brutal it is, and the triple threat SD 06 match was a damn near fucking classic. Seriously, WHAT IS IT ABOUT SMACKDOWN IN 2006 ?!?!?! If I were to ever buy a non official-WWE comp, it would be of SD 06. It's also unfortunate that the stretcher match vs HBK wasn't included, as well as the John Cena trilogy of 2010 (I know this DVD was released before those matches even took place).

At the end of the day though, out of 16 OFFICIAL matches, we have four ****+ matches, three of which being all time classics. It isn't the best match listing in the world, but it certainly isn't bad, as Dave is a fairly entertaining wrestler, and I felt that this DVD was very easy to sit through. I absolutely loved this DVD, and I hope Batista makes a return to the ring again someday.

8/10

Considering doing a HIAC project in the coming days....We'll see what happens, I'm just curious to see where the WM XXVIII match ranks. Right now, I have it at 3, MAYBE 4, on the list(have HIAC I + Batista/Trips higher, but the latter is interchangable due to personal favorism of that match). I'm not including the Kennel From Hell match either, fuck that dogshit of a match (literally). Should be fucking awesome.
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