Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 81 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:45 AM   #801 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

WWE's been producing some good shit this year TV-wise.

Daniel Bryan vs. Big Show – Smackdown 01/07/12
Mark Henry's on commentary and he's the greatest. The match itself is a real game of cat and mouse for the mediocre amount of time it gets and Bryan stooges around for Show like a real champ. I love how Bryan can pull off being a right derp and yet still retain his usual aura. The whole match really highlights Show's power too, especially that choke/headbutt spot. I seriously love Bryan's character to bits, it’s hard not to with the ‘YES! YES! YES!’ shtick. Easily the best part of the match is Henry shoving the shit out of Bryan. ‘GET OUTTA MA DAMN FACE, I BEAT YO FACE OFF BOY’

Daniel Bryan vs. Big Show – Smackdown 01/13/12
Things start with an ignored attempt at a handshake because Show’s mad and shit. He’s like an angry grizzly bear before the commercial break. However after the commercial, Bryan starts hunting down Show with a chair and hits like a gazillion chair shots, creating a real nice thorn-in-side scenario. Show's a beast, he sells the chair shots well, but retains his beastly qualities. The finish worked well, but could've been much better with an improved crowd. But that doesn't really detract from the match in the overall grand scheme of things. I should mention that Bryan’s great going up the ramp; ‘YOU DON’T HAVE TO BE SO RECKLESS’, ‘YOU ARE A BASTARD’.

Daniel Bryan vs. Mark Henry – Smackdown 01/20/12
It pains me to say I wasn’t the biggest fan of this considering who's involved.. It’s a lumberjack match, a stipulation that I’ve never been terribly fond of. Bryan’s mannerisms are great as usual and Henry is beastly, but sadly things break down into everyone brawling just as the match starts to get good which is a shame because the action was building nicely. Bryan was bumping like crazy and eventually taking Henry off his feet was treated like a big deal. Good development if anything.

Mark Henry vs. CM Punk - RAW 04/02/12
I think this was obviously aided by the burning hot crowd, but was still fantastic stuff at the same. Punk's selling of the back right away was a pleasant touch, he didn't let up either which was even better. Henry's a great bully character and can actually keep my attention better than most. There aren't many that can trash-talk like Henry. The elbow did feel big, I appreciated Punk still selling that back after it. The finish didn't tickle in the slightest. I'd love to see a program between these two down the line.

Dolph Ziggler vs. Kofi Kingston - Superstars 03/06/12
This is being sold as the 200th match between these two, and I'd well believe it. Apparently they're 99-99, which would make this the 199th match, no? Anyway, that's neither here nor there. This is certainly one of the better Superstars matches in recent memories. Ziggler pretty much carries all of this, but Kofi contributes something every once in a while too. Dolph is actually so much fun to watch these days, he executed the prettiest fireman's carry I've seen in a long long time and he seems to be developing a trend for being the crazy sell guy too. He does it here off the monkey flip, just landing FLAT on his face. I don't recall any major Kofi botches which is always a plus. Vickie was at ringside but she was kind of a non-factor here. Both guys seemed a tad knackered towards the end, but even still, it's 15 mins of cartoonish fun. I wasn't feeling the result but that's just my own bias really.
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:49 AM   #802 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Ehh, let's try again.

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Originally Posted by Yeah1993 View Post
I don't think anyone is a "TV MATCHES RULE. PPV SUCKS" guy. I prefer MIGHT a tv match because I like a simpler story, I guess, but post-85 (first WWF PPV), WWE hasn't put on a tv match that's as good as the tenth best PPV match (approx). Bolded part makes no sense to me. If two guys get a match on SmackDown for 20 minutes and get a match at WrestleMania for 20 minutes, I don't see why one has potential to be better than the other. Even if one is built well and the other is built like shit.
I'm pretty sure you've said you prefer TV matches before.

The WrestleMania match has the potential to be better than the Smackdown match because of a certain characteristic called 'spectacle'. It adds to the match just as atmosphere does. Also, I shouldn't even need to address the build-up issue. Obviously people will be much more invested in a very well built match than one based on a handshake.

Quote:
Caring about "ring-work" = move-for-move holds? I agree to some extent; 'workrate' matches like what you'll find a guy like Dean Malenko doing aren't my thing, but I don't see how you'd get the impression Punk v Henry is more about 'workrate' than about A Tired Exhausted CM Punk Coming Off of WrestleMania Having to Fend Off ENORMOUS FAT MAN Mark Henry. In capital letters and everything. I watched the match twice and it told a far better story (albeit a small one) than most if not all of Mania, and I think it was better than anything on the card (MAYBE not Punk/Jericho. Just MAYBE). Punk was exhausted and rib-hurt for the whole thing. Henry attacks mid-section multiple times and yells at Punk (seriously that was fucking awesome- I OWN YOU. DID I TELL YOU TO MOVE? GET'CHO HAND OFF MAH FACE). Punk tried a million times to get more and more offense in but Henry cut him off each time and sold exhaustion more down the line. Finish didn't sit too well with me, but the story, even insignificant in the grand scheme of both guys (or maybe not WHO KNOWS WWE UNPREDICTABLE~~~, was terrific.
Oh no, I'm pretty sure Henry and Punk will be awesome. Henry is a BOSS and Punk can be great when he doesn't have to be the primary focus (well, he doesn't have the ability to carry). It might have a very good story, but I just can't see how it's comparable to the Hell in a Cell.

Quote:
I'm long past the point where I watch wrestling for move-for-move holds. I think most are past that point after not long which is why there's so much "All Japan 90s is the greatest thing ever" talk. Watching the Misawa/Akiyama v Kawada/Taue stuff of 96 chronologically recently was an absolute thing of beauty, because the December tag made everything come full circle and in general, was just pulled off so well. I didn't think Hunter v Taker was.
The story doesn't always have to come full-circle (although imo they did do a good deal with finishing loose threads left in the past as well as callbacks from previous parts of the story).

Quote:
That's almost exactly why I didn't love (or almost *like* at all, really) Trip v Taker. I didn't buy practically any of it because I didn't think it was pulled off well. The story WAS good- HHH goes against Taker again at Mania inside the Cell, and Michaels (who lost to Taker twice in a row at the show) is referee. But it was so carny and cheesy that I didn't....give a rat's ass. I'd hate to harp on this, but Michaels blew, and no matter how good the story is, if a wrestler (or referee ex-wrestler IDK) is sucking then I don't care about it. It felt like a well built feud with a bad pay-off, and essentially that's what I thought it was. I don't want wrestlers to look like robots programmed to do a set of moves. That's an automatic piece of shit. But a match with a story isn't an automatic not-piece of shit. What? That made some sense, somewhere. I don't think Trip v Taker was a piece of shit btw, but there were too many negatives and Punk/Henry (outside the finish) was basically perfectly worked for a 12 minute Raw match.
Disagree a lot here. Michaels sold the match incredibly well with his conflicted ideals. He tried to remain as biased as possible until the competitors' prompts. I'm not going to talk about the story altogether b/c I've only seen the match once and I was most in a giddy state and not at all analytical. Fairly certain it will hold up when I rewatch tho.

An additional point. It's easy to work a simple match perfectly as it is easy to tell a simple story without much trouble. But that's not the zenith of storytelling. You're relaying something simple through simple means. It might evoke pleasure but it's not the same as relaying something truly grand in a complicated way. I'd imagine the catharsis for the latter would be of much higher significance than that of the former.

Quote:
You could hate Punk/Henry and I would fly to where you live and take a tomahawk to your face not care at all. I'm not bothered if someone thinks H/Taker is a trillion times better than Punk/Henry, but it's odd to me that someone would say it's laughable to say the opposite, esp. before watching it. I don't get how a tv match (or any match without a long feud) just CAN'T be match of the year by some people's standards.
I never said a TV match can't be match of the year. I just said this particular TV match won't be better than the Hell in a Cell. A TV match somewhere down the line might better the HIAC this year but I can't possibly see this being it.

Quote:
I agree with that totally; Jericho and Punk going counter for counter straight away while ignoring any previous story would have sucked fucking arse. If a guy talks about my mother, father, sister, friends, or KAIENTAI in any negative way I'd want to shoot them and not outwrestle them. I adore some matches that are pretty much based purely on story (e.g. Rey/Eddie GAB), I just don't think a match with a long background is autmotacially better than a random tv match because of the fact it has a story, and it's weird to me that someone would assume so.
How is that weird, in any way... like at all? A random TV match generates little interest from me. Ziggler vs. Danielson on RAW from the year before last is a good example. It was a wonderful exhibition but I didn't really care at all.

Story is a pivotal part of the match, so a match having better ground to build a story on will obviously have a significant advantage over a "random TV match".
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:44 AM   #803 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Can't you just import the Tagged Classic shows from Amazon.co.uk? I can get DVD's from Amazon.com just fine, so I guess the opposite should be just as easy?
How do you mean import? Like rip online or buy on ebay? I can fine most tagged classics on ebay but I hear I can't play them on my DVD player. I have a Playstation 2 which I have been told plays ALL DVDs but I'm not the best with things like this. Any advise would be awesome.
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:48 AM   #804 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I enjoyed the HIAC more after watching it again today, but by god Michaels was horrendous throughout it all. Since he initially came back in 2002 he's been a HORRIBLE actor and he got worse as the years went by. He was so cheesy on Sunday and made it completely unbelievable. If you think that was good acting then I don't know what to say.

Apart from that, the match was great. The sweet chin music into the pedigree made me almost wet my pants. I thought it was all over.
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:51 AM   #805 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I mean order them from Amazon.co.uk and have them delivered to your address. You can play them on your PC using a small program like, DVD43 that runs in the background and removes the region code when you put a disc in.

Also, get a region free DVD player. Hell, yours might be one, but you just need to input a special code to unlock it (google the model of your DVD player and see if there are any region free codes) .
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:00 AM   #806 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCal View Post
I mean order them from Amazon.co.uk and have them delivered to your address. You can play them on your PC using a small program like, DVD43 that runs in the background and removes the region code when you put a disc in.

Also, get a region free DVD player. Hell, yours might be one, but you just need to input a special code to unlock it (google the model of your DVD player and see if there are any region free codes) .
Huh...never thought of using the uk amazon. If I have an amazon account in the states I assume it's the same thing right?

Also I found a region free DVD player for $20 online so I will grab that. Been meaning to grab that one anyway.
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:12 AM   #807 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

You have to create a new account for Amazon.co.uk, but that's all. I've ordered a bunch of stuff from Amazon.com over the years and had no problems or anything.
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:35 AM   #808 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
I'm pretty sure you've said you prefer TV matches before.
I wasn't trying to deny that, really, just the thought that "PPV SUCKS." I don't have some bizarre bias towards tv matches and my liking for them is almost purely because I've been way more disappointed with WWE PPV matches of the past decade while there's literally hundreds of good matches. Talk to me about WCW and I'll tell you I enjoy PPV more because the tv matches didn't get tons of time to work with (most of the time).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
The WrestleMania match has the potential to be better than the Smackdown match because of a certain characteristic called 'spectacle'. It adds to the match just as atmosphere does. Also, I shouldn't even need to address the build-up issue. Obviously people will be much more invested in a very well built match than one based on a handshake.
There's pretty much no point on comment on the non-bolded part since we'd be talking back and forth on some loop. You like spectacle, I don't really care for it. But the bolded part I'm going to nudge (even though you said you weren't going to address it )- a bunch of people can care for a match with good build up, but the match itself doesn't become magically good based on that alone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
The story doesn't always have to come full-circle (although imo they did do a good deal with finishing loose threads left in the past as well as callbacks from previous parts of the story).
Won't dispute any of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
Disagree a lot here. Michaels sold the match incredibly well with his conflicted ideals. He tried to remain as biased as possible until the competitors' prompts. I'm not going to talk about the story altogether b/c I've only seen the match once and I was most in a giddy state and not at all analytical. Fairly certain it will hold up when I rewatch tho.
I didn't dislike the idea of Michaels trying to "choose sides" or w/e he was doing, it was just the acting of it that looked...stupid. Again, this is another "you like it, I don't" thing that we would probably just go needelessly back and forth with, but would have no reason to. I just found Michaels' hand-in-face and worried looks pretty pathetic, and the "you end it, then" stuff came off as totally cheesy. On paper it sounds really good to me.

IDK about analytical. If I have to sit down and think deeply about a wrestling match and its key points I won't enjoy myself. I don't think about any of this, I just notice it while it's going.

Next paragraph's going to be broken up into bitz:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
An additional point. It's easy to work a simple match perfectly as it is easy to tell a simple story without much trouble.
But that's not the zenith of storytelling. You're relaying something simple through simple means.
So...you're saying that's good or bad? I might be reading this wrong, but it sounds like "Punk v Henry had an easier story to tell so I'll cut the other match some slack because of the multiple layers" or something. I'm probably totally way off and that's not the right way to word it, but that's the impression I'm getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
It might evoke pleasure but it's not the same as relaying something truly grand in a complicated way.
I'd rather something simple be pulled off extremely well than something complicated be pulled off poorly. If I watched both matches again I'd have STACKS more negatives for Mania and there's stuff in that match that I had a hard time wrapping my head around in the first place. I'll cop to not getting it if it's explained in a way I agree with, but something like Michaels wanting to stop the match and then flipping out like a wuss when he counted down Trip after the first Tombstone confused me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
I'd imagine the catharsis for the latter would be of much higher significance than that of the former.
I still don't think that means it's better. It *could*, but not purely from that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
I never said a TV match can't be match of the year. I just said this particular TV match won't be better than the Hell in a Cell. A TV match somewhere down the line might better the HIAC this year but I can't possibly see this being it.
Purely/mainly because of the lack of (deeper) story?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hohenheim of Light View Post
How is that weird, in any way... like at all? A random TV match generates little interest from me. Ziggler vs. Danielson on RAW from the year before last is a good example. It was a wonderful exhibition but I didn't really care at all.

Story is a pivotal part of the match, so a match having better ground to build a story on will obviously have a significant advantage over a "random TV match".
It was weird to me for a few reasons. You hadn't seen the match and completely assumed it would be laughable to think it was better than the Cell. I wouldn't have said anything if it was more "I'd be shocked if I thought that was better than Taker/Trip" (Not that I'm trying to "call you out" in the first place or anything), but "bigger story = better match"

I'd be surprised if any regular poster in this thread other than Steffan and I thought Punk/Henry was better than the Cell, but I don't think it's laughable to think otherwise. And thinking that Punk/Henry was better the Cell didn't look like something to call "laughable" because it doesn't have a big build or previous ground. At the end of the day, I sure as hell want story in a match, no matter how tiny or short-lasting it is, but if a match has MORE story and is more significant b/c of "the streak" "end of an era" and eveything in between, I still can't see why it's pretty much instantly better. They have more ground to work with, yeah, but it's sounding like you're saying the worst match with a lot of story is better than the best match with little match, in a way.

I'm tired and I probably got this confused with a facbeook status so I apologise if I made any spelling/grammar mistakes or references to massaging a Japanese woman here. Not reading over this either.

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Old 04-04-2012, 09:45 AM   #809 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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You have to create a new account for Amazon.co.uk, but that's all. I've ordered a bunch of stuff from Amazon.com over the years and had no problems or anything.
Last question (maybe haha)....how long would shipping take do you think? I have never ordered anything from UK. I ordered something from Canada once and it took liker a month. I assume from UK maybe 7-10 bus days? How long does it take to get you things from the states?
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:47 AM   #810 (permalink)
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Anywhere between 7 and 14 days usually, but I've had stuff take a month before .
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