Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 752 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:48 AM   #7511 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I got Main Event recorded. Might watch. Your review put over the match nicely, however when I see the end result (***) I can't help but really...scoff it off. Kofi Kingston matches can be solid, but that's it. I really have yet to see the guy in a match that really "hit the mark". For all of his matches vs Dolph Ziggler none were "great". Simply good. Then some sucked. It's why I really lost interest in the guy. Doesn't matter who he's worked vs, it never reaches that higher level past solid or good. Not to mention his lack of consistency lately. He used to have a nice slew of decent/fun matches weekly back in 09 - 10, but that ship as sailed.

Now I'm not questioning that match, it's the state of Kofi Kingston in general. Either push the guy and hope he can reach the next level or stop with the useless transition reigns for a guy who's really shown he isn't all that good.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:51 AM   #7512 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon - WWF Intercontinetal Championship - Ladder Match - WWF Summerslam 1995 8/27/1995
This was one of my favorite matches as a kid and I'm glad it holds up. One of the worst things to do is to watch a match from your childhood that you absolutely love and realize it's horseshit now. Both guys were great in this. Even though they are both faces, Ramon is the heel of match in the sense that he has the main control segment. His offense feels lifeless at first, but he gets more dickish and heel it's up more as the match goes on. One spot I love is where Razor lightly shoves the ladder onto HBK's leg with a evil grin across his face. This combined with HBK's ability to sell an injury in way that gets him a lot of sympathy from the crowd makes for a fantastic character dynamic. The ending is shitty because it felt like they were laying around way too much and they managed to blow the finishing spot not once but two times. Still, it's a fantastic ladder match with strong character dynamics and spots that have held up pretty nicely considering it's a 17 year old match.
★★★★¼
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Old 10-18-2012, 03:35 AM   #7513 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Yeah, still love that match myself despite the fact they were not allowed to use the ladder as a weapon in that one, still prefer WM10 myself tbh though.

17 years ago already, crikey where the fuck does the time go. I always think of 90's matches as 'just a few years ago' still lol, not nearly 20.
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Old 10-18-2012, 06:30 AM   #7514 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Triple H vs The Rock - WWF Intercontinental Championship - Ladder Match - WWF Summerslam 1998 8/30/1998
Pretty dull to be honest. The beginning portion of the match features some good legwork and selling but it never goes anywhere. This match also falls victim to bad timing. For example, Rocky would be climbing at the ladder and realize Hunter isn't getting up yet and he has take his sweet-ass time climbing the ladder. It happens a lot and it just looks awkward. The majority of the spots here weren't at all innovative considering the other ladder matches that took place around this time. The baseball slide and the rebound spot was something I hadn't seen done before that but that's it.
★★¼
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Old 10-18-2012, 06:58 AM   #7515 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Can't believe I forgot Henry/Bryan from 2011 in the best Cage matches discussion. Probably my favourite match of the year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redead View Post
WWE dont know how to book cage matches

too many mixed signals. I mean, i dont get it? Is the point of the cage to keep one of them from running away so they can get an ass kicking? Is the point of two guys who hate each other? Is it for one of them run? Whats with the fucking door too?

I mean, I dont get it. And adding a title into the mix just makes shit more confusing
THANK YOU.

I can't tell you how stupid GMs look when they book a Cage match under the premise that 'the champion has been ducking the challenger and has to put up or shut up'...only to then book a match where one of the 3 ways to win is by....escaping from your opponent.

The escape via the door is even more retarded for 3 reasons:

1. It removes any credibility the Cage has in terms of stopping interference. If the GM doesn't ban a stable/faction from ringside, all one guy has to do is assault the ref holding the key and unlock the Cage, in some cases the door remains unlocked throughout the match so again all a guy has to do is get past the ref and he can interfere.

2. If you can walk out of the door to escape, then the cage is pretty much pointless. At least if the only way to escape is via climbing the cage, then at least it serves a purpose on top of being used as a weapon and serving as the potential for a dangerous fall. When you make it possible for a guy to not have to climb the cage, then you really have to question what purpose the Cage actually has.

3. WHY DO PEOPLE GO THROUGH THE DOOR AND THEN LATER CLIMB THE CAGE JUST TO SET UP A SPOT? Its unbelievable how many wrestlers will switch between going out over the cage and then going via the door, all to set up a spot. It just defies logic and whilst wrestling as a whole requires the suspension of some disbelief, Cage matches under this logic just take it too far.

A Cage match to me should just be two guys locked inside the cage, only way to win is pinfall/submission and really they just beat the shit out of each other until the finish. By all means the heel can still attempt to climb out of the cage to escape the beating, even though it won't win him the match (Hogan vs Flair for example), but the finish will come with one guy finally beating the other with no shenanigans involved.

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Old 10-18-2012, 07:12 AM   #7516 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus View Post
Triple H vs The Rock - WWF Intercontinental Championship - Ladder Match - WWF Summerslam 1998 8/30/1998
Pretty dull to be honest. The beginning portion of the match features some good legwork and selling but it never goes anywhere. This match also falls victim to bad timing. For example, Rocky would be climbing at the ladder and realize Hunter isn't getting up yet and he has take his sweet-ass time climbing the ladder. It happens a lot and it just looks awkward. The majority of the spots here weren't at all innovative considering the other ladder matches that took place around this time. The baseball slide and the rebound spot was something I hadn't seen done before that but that's it.
★★¼
Yes! Someone that agrees with me on the shittyness of this ladder match. It ain't good. Just like the rest of the event too tbh.
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:30 AM   #7517 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I gave HHH/Rock ***. Don't really dislike it, per say. It is what it is. Wouldn't expect those two guys to really give an ultra fascinating Ladder match anyways. It was better than their 2/3 falls match from Fully Loaded the month prior.

what a pop for game when he pulls the championship down tho. (back to HHH talk. fuck)
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:43 AM   #7518 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah1993 View Post
Backlund had a really good one with somebody other than Slaughter but I can't remember who, I think it was Pat Patterson.
You're not thinking Backlund/Hansen are you?




You know what match I was incredibly underwhelmed by? Sammartino/Zbyszko cage match from Shea Stadium. For YEARS I heard about how classic this match was and it just didn't strike me as something great. I understand the build was very heated for this personal rivalry but I didn't feel the intensity of this blood feud as I watched the match.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:04 AM   #7519 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redead View Post
WWE dont know how to book cage matches

too many mixed signals. I mean, i dont get it? Is the point of the cage to keep one of them from running away so they can get an ass kicking? Is the point of two guys who hate each other? Is it for one of them run? Whats with the fucking door too?

I mean, I dont get it. And adding a title into the mix just makes shit more confusing
Adding a title to the mix makes it better I think because then the face at least has an excuse to run away. If it's a blood feud then a cage match really doesn't make that much sense since a lot of time is spent trying to run away. And yes, I hate the door.

Some times the matches can work with the escape aspect but other times it's totally unnecessary. I wish they would pick and chose when to make an escape a win because there are times when it's great and times when it hurts the match,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clique View Post
Does anyone remember the Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels cage match being any good? I saw it ages ago and I know it wasn't great but maybe still worth a watch (re-watch).
I watched it a while ago and I didn't think it was all that great. Raven was on commentary if I remember and he drove me insane with how annoying he was. I didn't know it was him until I posted a review in this thread saying how much I hated the guy on commentary and then everyone told me I was talking about Raven. Still stand by what I said though, he was really annoying.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:08 AM   #7520 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I think steel cage matches should only be won via climbing your way out of it. Get rid of the door or make it like the barber wire match between Show/JBL so it's locked with steel chain. I don't really look so deep into it and go "They hate each other? They should only destroy each other instead of escaping!". Plus, for cowardly heels, the escaping option only adds to it as they will try to get away from the face.

Some fav cage matches:
- Angle/Benoit
- Orton/Flair
- Henry/Bryan
- Orton/Christian
- HHH/Orton
- JBL/Benoit
- Batista/Undertaker
- Edge/Cena
- Rock/Benoit

I have not seen some others like Edge/Matt Hardy and any Jericho cage match.
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