Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 739 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:03 AM   #7381 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Clique View Post
People are more inclined to remember Michaels vs. Sid as opposed to Mysterio vs. Gallows even though the latter is arguably better.
Yep that just about covers it Clique.

To me wrestling is ultimately a performance, in that respect I just look at someone like an Arn Anderson and see how he embraced every aspect of pro wrestling, from the comedy, to the serious aggressive style of wrestling, to selling visally and emotively as well as selling a limb, to bumping like a mad man, altering his approach depending on who he wrestled: e.g working differently with Steamboat than he would a rookie like Brian Pillman. I just see him look like the best in the world on any given night and see how he just masters all the aspects of a performer in that setting and can't put him below someone who might light the world on fire 5 times a year, when I know Arn has that performance in him everytime he wrestles.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:32 AM   #7382 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Those PPV matches with Barrett were so horrendously bad which leads me to another question ? What's the appeal of wade Barrett ? He doesn't have a good catalogue of matches AT ALL, his walking style of promo has already been beaten to death and is beyond boring right now, and his move set/mannerisms are downright horrendous as well. None of you will agree with this, but he's up there with Miz in terms of bad main event performances. Sure his big matches with cena were good as well as his 2011 SS match with Bryan , but damn !
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:42 AM   #7383 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Those PPV matches with Barrett were so horrendously bad which leads me to another question ? What's the appeal of wade Barrett ? He doesn't have a good catalogue of matches AT ALL, his walking style of promo has already been beaten to death and is beyond boring right now, and his move set/mannerisms are downright horrendous as well. None of you will agree with this, but he's up there with Miz in terms of bad main event performances. Sure his big matches with cena were good as well as his 2011 SS match with Bryan , but damn !
He's good on the mic but mic skills should not be all it takes to make you a World Champion. He's boring as fuck in the ring and has very little charisma. (it's funny how many people in forums call out Orton for sounding like a robot yet give Barrett a pass)

At the end of the day, it's the matches that matter since people will more likely go back and watch the matches than a bunch of random talk segments and as a wrestler, Barrett is bland and uninteresting which makes him, similar to The Moz, underwhelming.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:51 AM   #7384 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

With Barrett, he's someone who's given the worst material to work with as far as mic work goes, and makes it passable. He's an incredibly gifted mic worker and has confidence and delivery down to a tee, but he rarely gets to speak riveting stuff, and hasn't since his Nexus days.

The biggest problem besides his material and his lack of a true character for most of his singles run, has been his in ring work. He's improved leaps and bounds in the ring since those horrendous main events with Orton in 2010 and actually had 2-3 good ones with Orton in 2011-2012. Even back in 2010 when he was horrendous in the ring, he still had some good-great matches with Jericho and Cena. But he also had an excellent match with Bryan at Summerslam last year, which I put as his best match (****). He had several decent-good TV matches around that period with Sheamus, Kofi, Orton, and a few others. I also remember a very good TV match with him and Mysterio from early in 2011, but can't remember when or if it was Raw/SD. And hell, since his return he's had good matches with Ryder, Sheamus, and from what I saw of his match with Kidd on Superstars, that was a good one as well. It's true he can still have horrendous matches and his brawling style is probably very boring to a lot of people, especially when only utilized in squash environments, and he does need at least a good worker to have a good match, but I think he can be one of those big match players in the future. He proved he's capable with his match against Cena at HIAC in 2010, and now I'm sure if they revisited that, the match would be even better.

Plus what I also love about him is he has such the natural appearance, presence, and charisma of a heel. He get a decent amount of heat compared to most of the roster if he's doing something, and he could definitely be the top heel for the company again if WWE ever wants to go with him.

One thing that he has to change though if he wants to get a substantial amount of heat again the second he walks through those curtains is his theme music. Since he changed it earlier this year, it's been horrendous, and while his current version is better than what it was, it just screams "JOBBER MUSIC!"

As far as the comparison to Miz, back in 2010 their in-ring work was comparably bad and they were close together in that field. However now? Barrett's far above Miz imo in every category.

Also, going back to Sheamus, I love the chemistry Barrett has with Sheamus and want them to fucking feud already.

Quote:
(it's funny how many people in forums call out Orton for sounding like a robot yet give Barrett a pass)
Meh, they both get equally robotic material but Barrett sounds extremely lively compared to Orton nowadays imo.

It's sad to, because I used to be such a big mark for Orton. Back in 2004-2005, he was probably my favorite wrestler in the company bar Undertaker, and mid-way/end of 2005 on, Edge. I was even a bigger mark than I am for Punk now. I remained a mark through 2006, and 2007 but then I just started getting bored of him shortly after NM 07. By WM that year, while I was still a fan, I wasn't as interested in him anymore. The whole Orton/McMahons angle made me a big fan again, but then after that gets screwed up, followed by some more terrible booking of Orton, I lost all interest in him again and by the time he won the WWE Title in 2010, I couldn't even call myself a fan. And my opinion on him has gone down and down ever since then as well. I still do like when they put him in the ring with mid-card guys because I always feel there's a chance the mid-card guy could win, which I don't get when a mid-carder would face Cena. And I like the fact he's been a much better worker since moving to SD in 2011. But ultimately Orton fails to hold my interest anymore, and it's not entirely his fault as WWE booking and his character really hold him back, but I also feel, especially since losing the title to Henry and now since his return, he's taken a very laid-back and lazy approach to how he does things. It's a shame when looking back considering I was such a huge mark back in the day.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:10 AM   #7385 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Urgh, Wade Barrett. Was a fan of him during the first NXT series. And he's actually gone down hill from then. His in ring skills are pretty terrible now. Promo? "Barrett Barrage this, winds of change that, nothing memorable or remotely good". His new "in ring style" is laughable too. I hope he doesn't become the first English champion. Should have given Regal a run years ago, even if he lost it the week after winning it.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:12 AM   #7386 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

There are other ways to express your charisma than through mic work. It's such a gross misconception on this forum that if you can't cut a promo you have no charisma. Orton wouldn't be this over if he didn't have charisma. Without it, the fans will have no attachment to you. Jeff Hardy can't cut a promo to save his life but he didn't have to in order to get over and stay over because for some inexplicable reason, he just has IT and is charismatic as shit. Mic work wasn't a strong suit of Batista. His overall physical presence and charisma combined with some of the best storytelling in years is what got him over and kept him over. Barrett had an entire faction built around him and was working with the top babyface in the company. As soon as all that was taken away from him and he was simply Wade Barrett nobody gave a shit because when he isn't talking, there isn't much to see. Mic work doesn't = charisma. Hell, Triple H and Taker when they both returned in 2011 didn't say a single word to each other for 15 minutes and the whole arena lost their shit for the entire time. That's charisma.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:40 AM   #7387 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Some wrestling fans always seem to think speaking into a microphone loudly means you are more charismatic. I think have strong mic skills is translated through personality for sure but charisma is exactly what Starbuck was describing and it's often an intangible that can't be taught but can be found or fleshed out with the right character/persona, the right booking, and a particular look. Guys like Undertaker, Goldberg, Jeff Hardy, and Rey Mysterio don't need to cut long promos to display their charisma and sustain powerful connections with audiences.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:03 PM   #7388 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clique View Post
Some wrestling fans always seem to think speaking into a microphone loudly means you are more charismatic. I think have strong mic skills is translated through personality for sure but charisma is exactly what Starbuck was describing and it's often an intangible that can't be taught but can be found or fleshed out with the right character/persona, the right booking, and a particular look. Guys like Undertaker, Goldberg, Jeff Hardy, and Rey Mysterio don't need to cut long promos to display their charisma and sustain powerful connections with audiences.
Bold part is exactly what I feel is the problem with Barrett right now and his apparent lack of charisma. When he was with the Nexus, even when it was just him out there, he got a TON of heat and had a clear connection to the audience because he had a clear character, great material, strong booking, and just looked like an evil manipulative son of a bitch. It's something he hasn't had since, and sadly only a select few people can have that level of charisma where even when they're given meaningless/un-important stuff in the grand scheme of things to do with today's audience, who've been conditioned to Cena being the magnet where all important stuff goes. But Undertaker is the fucking Undertaker. Jeff Hardy's daredevil antics are always a blast to watch and react to, even if you're not a fan of the guy. Rey Mysterio's the size of a lot of kids and his style is always fun to watch, but he also has a strong in-ring work rate and people always expect something from him. And Goldberg had the undefeated streak and was seen as this unstoppable force where nothing could stop him and that contributed a lot to his reactions and why the audience cared for him.

This isn't really just an excuse for Barrett, but an excuse for all of the guys today who when they're not in the main event, they seemingly can't connect with the audience to elicit a reaction. Even Del Rio, who does seem to have no charisma at all and is probably the best example of someone having no charisma since he was given a RR and two WWE Titles a year in his WWE career, not to mention a prominent player on SD the last 6 months and he doesn't lose often, but yet still rarely gets even a smudge of heat. However, even with all of that it can be attributed to how his character has been misused and how his material is repetitive and bland.

So I do think not only Barrett, but a lot of the guys on the roster have some charisma, but not on the levels of guys like Jeff Hardy, Orton, etc., who I feel aren't on the levels of guys like Undertaker, Lesnar, Goldberg, who even then I don't think are the example of guys with the absolute peak of charisma like Rock and Flair.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:18 PM   #7389 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Just watched Rey Mysterio vs Randy Orton on Smackdown 7 April 2006. Wow, what a match! It went on for about 20 minutes and I still said to myself "NO, please don't end here!" when Rey hit the 619 successfully. Easy ****1/4 here. I saw the full SD episode on this link a few months ago but skipped the match because I was more interested in the storyline advancements and the promos but what a big mistake! GREAT fucking match this was and the more I think about, the more sense it would've made to have Angle challenge Taker for the streak and then Orton and Mysterio wrestling for the World Title.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:21 PM   #7390 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Exactly, "The Ringmaster" is a technical hand, a guy that can put on decent matches on the card. Stone Cold Steve Austin is a star you build an entire federation around. There needs to be something extra present for the audiences to care. Look at Morrison and Miz for example. Morrison is a much better performer and worker than Miz but he never found a way or was given a creative way to fully get his character over and connect like Miz has these last few years. I still don't think Miz should be working WrestleMania main events but the guy knows how to work his annoying, loud mouth heel character. I feel Shelton Benjamin suffered the same issues as Morrison - good worker but directionless. Barrett has proven he can hold his own in a main event program with the top stars in the company but he has to get those ring skills together because contrary to what people think ring skills do matter. He doesn't need to be Benoit in the ring who had flawless execution of moves and pieced a match together with precise psychology, or even Hogan who can infuse his charisma to make a match feel great but the fans want a great show when that bell rings. They remember the great matches and moments. Barrett and a lot of guys in the current WWE need clear and consistent direction too.
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