Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 590 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:14 PM   #5891 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Any chance to get that Angle/Daniels match from 2000? There are also the Angle/Owen dark matches, big waste if it's not on video.

Edit - Hogan/Flair in Havoc 94 is really an awesome cage match.

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Old 09-10-2012, 01:18 PM   #5892 (permalink)
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Knew I forgot one, Hogan vs Flair Halloween Havoc 1994 Cage Match. THAT is how you work a tremendously entertaining and more theatrical Cage match, but still incorporate the character, hatred and magnitude of the match into the feud.

But yeah, Magnum/Tully is the definition of a proper Cage match for me. Hatred that dominates their entire offence, utilising the cage as a weapon whilst still employing basic brawling to signify the contempt for the other's existence and not having to rely on the damn escape rules which ruin Cage matches these days.

Said it before, but the whole door/climbing the cage makes no sense. Firstly it always leads to nonsensical spots where guys deliberately climb the cage to set up a big spot, which of course comes off incredibly telegraphed when they've been using the door to escape prior. Then you get into the stupidity of the cage door being an escape route...when the whole basis of a cage match should be to avoid interference and settle a match with a fair winner...yet of course we always get people able to enter the cage via the door or interfere by slamming the door off of a wrestler's face. I'd rather they just eliminate the escape rule and make it pinfall/submission inside a cage with no way out, or if they insist on an escape format (again stupid since most Cage matches come about when a heel takes the cheap way to avoid losing to a babyface...yet is put into a match where taking the shortcut is actually legal) make it via climbing over the cage.

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Old 09-10-2012, 01:20 PM   #5893 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Segunda Caida View Post
Knew I forgot one, Hogan vs Flair Halloween Havoc 1994 Cage Match. THAT is how you work a tremendously entertaining snd more theatrical Cage match, but still incorporate the character, hatred and magnitude of the match into the feud.

But yeah, Magnum/Tully is the definition of a proper Cage match for me. Hatred that dominates their entire offence, utilising the cage as a weapon whilst still employing basic brawling to signify the contempt for the other's existence and not having to rely on the damn escape rules which ruin Cage matches these days.

Said it before, but the whole door/climbing the cage makes no sense. Firstly it always leads to nonsensical spots where guys deliberately climb the cage to set up a big spot, which of course comes off incredibly telegraphed when they've been using the door to escape prior. Then you get into the stupidity of the cage door being an escape route...when the whole basis of a cage match should be to avoid interference and settle a match with a fair winner...yet of course we always get people able to enter the cage via the door or interfere by slamming the door off of a wrestler's face. I'd rather they just eliminate the escape rule and make it pinfall/submission inside a cage with no way out, or if they insist on an escape format (again stupid since most Cage matches come about when a heel takes the cheap way to avoid losing to a babyface...yet is put into a match where taking the shortcut is actually legal) make it via climbing over the cage.
What are your thoughts on the Bret Hart vs Owen Hart Steel Cage Match from Summerslam?

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Old 09-10-2012, 01:23 PM   #5894 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Tbh I haven't watched that match in about 5 years off memory, and I'm not really pressed to want to go watch it due to my apathy towards Bret (not going to call him bad, but he's not a worker I'm compelled to watch every new match I find like I would Funk, Finlay, Hansen and others) in general.

I doubt I'd think it would be better than the cage matches I mentioned a couple of posts ago, if only because I'm not entirely convinced both could work the stiff/violent brawl I tend to favour in Cage matches.
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:24 PM   #5895 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

That Rock/Cena DVD has suddenly gotten me 10 times more interested with those sneak pics. Can't wait until somebody puts it online, whether it's YouTube or DailyMotion, a torrent or some other random site.
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Old 09-10-2012, 02:39 PM   #5896 (permalink)
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Or our in-house Wrestling Multimedia section...
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Old 09-10-2012, 03:20 PM   #5897 (permalink)
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Out of pure nostalgia reasons, I checked out the match above and it's a hell of a fun match. A five star match it is not but with all the charisma and star power in front of a hot MSG crowd, it was certainly 20 minutes well spent. It was camp, corny and cartoony but in a very good way.

Could an argument be made that Hulk Hogan was at-best a decent worker? Only a few people can even come close to him when it comes to charisma. He had the ability to get any crowd to pop at any time with the slightest actions and that surely has got to have some translation to good ring-work. His selling was very poor (an argument could be made that his no-selling is a character trait because he is 'immortal' and all but let's leave that for another day...) and that's obviously going to stop him from having ****+ matches but it's hard to deny he's had some fun performances in his time.
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Old 09-10-2012, 03:34 PM   #5898 (permalink)
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In its literal meaning, Hogan is a good hell even great 'worker'. Lawler might be the only guy in history who can lay claim to getting as good a reaction for the smallest details in a match, and there's no doubt Hogan's charisma carried into his ability to control and perform naturally in front of any crowd. Sure he didn't get crowd reactions from his selling the way Steamboat and Morton managed to do, but rather him being a super FIP arose out of his character and insane charisma that captivated audiences nationwide and worldwide.

I think that's actually part of the innate charm in John Cena. Like Hogan a lot of the time he's a naturally great and engaging FIP because his starpower and character is so far ahead of anyone else bar Undertaker in the company, so he naturally generates reactions from the crowd and helps to make his opponents look better in the process. Yet at the same time, his performances and bumping in the Lesnar, Umaga and Khali matches demonstrate he does possess that Morton/Steamboat ability to theatrically bump and build sympathy in his matches, albeit on a far lesser level than those two.

But yeah, Hogan definitely was a good 'worker' in terms of carrying a crowd and doing what he was needed to do. He doesn't have a great match catalogue but there's definitely some good performances from him, and in respect of what Vince wanted from Hogan, he didn't fail.

BTW if you want a great Hogan tag, check out Hogan/Savage vs Flair/Arn from Nitro 1996. Legit awesome STF tag with some great Arn shtick, a great Savage FIP spell and a generally entertaining yet terrific match. Features one of the best transition spots into a FIP spell I've seen in a tag match as well.
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Old 09-10-2012, 03:39 PM   #5899 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Hogan &Warrior Vs The Undertaker, Sgt. Slaughter & General Adnan is a tremendously fun tag team match too. And for the record I'd call Hogan a good worker. Plus I think his selling is somewhat underrated. Once he makes his comeback and goes all "superman" then yeah, he ignores shit, but prior to that part of the match he's always been good at selling beatings from his opponents.


Just finished watching the NWA documentary that I posted in my Sig (available to download on XWT btw, and currently freeleech I think?). Around 2 and a half hours, with the last 20 being "extras" with guys telling some stories they heard from the past and their memories of watching as a kid, then a match between Pierce and... someone.

Anywho, overall its a pretty good documentary. They got plenty of footage of matches and shit from whoever owns their own recording and whatnot, and even got some shoot interview footage from Highspots, RF Video and a couple of others so we do get the likes of Flair, Funks, Briscos etc talking about certain people and matches which is cool, and was probably cheaper for them to get the video footage than it was to pay some of the guys to be on the DVD. Really good in depth look at most of the NWA champs from the beginning up to Flair in the 80's, then after that they just mention a bunch of guys in passing before getting to Shane Douglas and they talk about the ECW thing, then from there bits and pieces, then the WWF being invaded in the late 90's, then TNA using the belt. And then they spend about 20-25 minutes talking about the current NWA... and it goes downhill lol. Just because its sad to see where the NWA is now, and the fact that the wrestlers and people involved still try to make us believe that the NWA and the title actually mean something any more. Lets face it, the NWA title hasn't meant SHIT since JCP was sold to Turner and it was turned into WCW and they got rid of the NWA belt and had a WCW belt. Since then WCW and WWF were the only promotions that meant anything. ECW on a smaller scale too, but they shat on the NWA title and had their own so the NWA title had to resort to floating around the dying territories/indy promotions until TNA picked it up in 02 then gave it up and it went back to the Indies which had fallen even further. Doesn't help that they talk about how the belt still means something and then show someone winning it in a decent sized arena where ALL the seats are empty and you can see MAYBE 40 people folding chairs around the ringside area. I guess they were trying to promote the current NWA by giving it so much time at the end and really talking it up, but you can't take them seriously when they show clips like that. But at least they actually have footage of a guy saying that the NWA should just go away now because its nothing, you really don't get the other side of things like that in WWE documentaries.

Nice to see a big independent documentary like this. Big fan of the WCCW and Memphis ones, and I'm looking forward to the ECW one that is currently on kickstarter looking to get funding (though there are 9 days left and they still need like, $9000 so its unlikely to happen. Kinda funny that the epic ECW promotion that sooo many fans think is incredible can barely make $23000 while little old Nigel McGuinness, just a single guy, made over $48000 ). Isn't there already an independent ECW doc out there anyway? I seem to recall Jeremy Borash being involved?
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Old 09-10-2012, 03:50 PM   #5900 (permalink)
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This was released the same time as WWE released their awesome 'Rise & Fall of ECW' set. Some people have said that this was even better than the WWE's attempt due to having the ability to reach out to guys like Sandman, Sabu and Shane Douglas. I pretty sure it was released to promote up those Hardcore Homecoming shows back in the day.

Thanks for the head-ups on the NWA doc, Cal. Will defo check that out.
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