Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 468 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
 
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post #4671 of 20566 (permalink) Old 08-11-2012, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Both matches suck though .
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post #4672 of 20566 (permalink) Old 08-11-2012, 01:50 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
All of those matches are easy ****3/4 - ***** classics.

How do you rate HHH/Taker matches the last two mania?
I have no problem with people putting any of those matches at ****3/4-*****, I just don't. Still all classics though.

As for your question, here it is:

Taker/HHH WM27- ***1/2
Taker/HHH WM28- ****

Honestly I tried watching Taker/HHH WM27 some time ago, and I just couldn't sit through it again. The storytelling, while good, is trumped by the storytelling in WM28 and honestly that match just makes WM27's seem like nothing. Personally I never thought WM27's storytelling was as great as others made it out, though it's still some very good stuff. The only part of the match I could watch over and over again is the tombstone from HHH to Taker and the kickout with the crowd reaction. JR's commentary, the crowd, everything was perfect in that moment. Besides that though the match honestly just isn't fun to sit through anymore. I never had a high opinion on it even when everyone was calling it a ***** classic right after it happened, but now... meh.

WM28 was the perfect end to the Taker/HBK/HHH arc and did a far superior job in the storytelling department. I think it lacks in all the departments it did the year prior, but not as much (pacing, wrestling/action), but where it excelled, it did better. Now I don't think it's an all-time classic like many others do, but it's an awesome match. I don't think I'd have it in HHH's top 10, and I certainly don't have it in Taker's top 10, but it's what storytelling in wrestling is all about.

Edit: In additions to the matches stated above, pretty sure Benoit/HHH/HBK WM20 will be in his top 5.

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post #4673 of 20566 (permalink) Old 08-11-2012, 03:26 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by KingCal View Post
Both matches suck though .
THANK YOU.

Summerslam is better than NWO 2001 but only by a small distance and its in no way a compliment to the Summerslam match, just that the NWO match with Austin is one of the most pitifully worked matches I've ever seen. Amazing to see how they butchered it on almost every conceivable level, the only good thing I can say about it is the finish perfectly leads into Austin's breakdown at Wrestlemania and forces him to question whether he's still at the peak of his game.

Guessing the Austin/HHH v Benoit/Jericho tag will be in the top 5 as well as the Cactus Jack Royal Rumble match and probably the Jericho Last Man Standing match from Fully Loaded, unless that one has already been.

EDIT: unless I've overlooked it I haven't seen the Wrestlemania 20 WHC title match listed, and assuming Summerslam 2002, No Way Out 2001, Power Trip/Canadian Violence Raw tag and the Cactus Jack Royal Rumble match are all present that would leave the Mania match competing with the Jericho LMS match, unless either one have already come up and I've skimmed over both.

Personally I think the Taboo Tuesday Steel Cage match is far too low, and the HIAC vs Batista is better than either Wrestlemania match against Taker.

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post #4674 of 20566 (permalink) Old 08-11-2012, 06:08 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Triple H PPV Matches : The List (5-3)

5. vs Stone Cold Steve Austin NWO 01
4. vs Shawn Michaels SS 02
3. vs Chris Jericho FL 00

I know practically everybody hates the NWO 01 3SOH match, but I think it's potentially the greatest blowoff match to a great feud ever. The intensity and the drama really did it for me, I believe it was just a knockout-dragout fight that was epic all the way. The Michaels match will have it's detractors as well, but it's one of those matches that just gives me chills every time I see it. The back work by HHH is fucking awesome and he looks like a cynical bastard with just the way he takes this beaten down "has been" apart. Every time that I watch it , it gets better and better from a storytelling standpoint to me, and although it isn't even in HBK's top 5 for me (vs Taker X3 , WM XX , Mind Games) , it's still a downright fucking awesome match that I adore to this day, and my MOTY for 2002.

The Jericho match at Fully Loaded 2000 is what I would call the greatest match of all time in the career of Chris Jericho, and the greatest last man standing match of all time by a fair margin. This match was almost a SQUASH, but it's executed so excellently that any master of psychology would be willing to slap a ***** rating or an A++ on this. The ribwork is fantastic, and we're all waiting for Jericho to get back at the chiseled game, but he just can't seem to do it in the end. One of the top 10-15 WWE matches EVER by my estimation, I just adore this match with all of my heart as it has the storytelling and the psychology as well as smart weapon use to carry it to a perfect rating.





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post #4675 of 20566 (permalink) Old 08-11-2012, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Jericho LMS is definitely worthy of HHH's top 5. Off my head, I'd go:

5. Vs Rock JD 2000/Vs HBK Vs Benoit WM 20 (can't decide between the two)
4. Vs Jericho FL 2000
3. Vs Cactus Jack RR 2000
2. Vs The Undertaker WM 27
1. Vs The Undertaker WM 28
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post #4676 of 20566 (permalink) Old 08-11-2012, 06:36 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Wow did I see people seriously say HHH/HBK Summerslam 2002 and Austin/HHH No Way Out sucks?

First Angle sucks as a wrestler, and this? Yeah...... okay..... lol



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post #4677 of 20566 (permalink) Old 08-11-2012, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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post #4678 of 20566 (permalink) Old 08-11-2012, 06:42 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

HHH's top 5 PPV matches:

1) vs. Foley RR00
2) vs. Rock BL00
3) vs. Batista Vengeance 05
4) vs. Jericho FL00
5) vs. HBK SS02

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post #4679 of 20566 (permalink) Old 08-11-2012, 06:48 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCal View Post
Like Kurt Angle's match structuring, those 2 matches MAKE NO SENSE .
SPOTZZZZ!!!! > Sykologiiii!!!!!

I like a little bit of both.
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post #4680 of 20566 (permalink) Old 08-11-2012, 06:49 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

See I don't even think there's that much intensity or hate in the Austin match, especially that dreadful opening fall which just reduces the match's potential right from the off. Its not worked nearly as frantic and chaotic as this sort of match should be, had HHH been portrayed as a chickenshit looking to retain a title or just claim a win over Austin it might have worked...but we were expected to believe he hated Austin just as much and was set about beating him to a bloody mess. Seeing them work something that resembled a #1 contender's match with some haphazard selling from Austin and bi-polar bodypart work from HHH was just incredibly stange, especially when you watch brawls from Mid South and Memphis and slowly understand how to work a brawl that operates on pure hatred between both competitors.

The drab and tame opening fall then means they have to amp up the violence, or they risk losing the crowd and therefore before you know it there's an insane amount of weapon use and big spots that should have been saved for the closing fall because they're desperately now trying to get across 'THE HATE' and its just not working. By the final fall you've got steel chair shots to the head being sold like a bodyslam and the crowd is noticeably quiet, the pacing was just all off and they left themselves too much to do in that second fall and shot their load in terms of big spots and weapons.

I understand why its popular because the storyline despite reaching absurd levels by Survivor Series was engrossing and pitted two of the biggest stars in the company in a mega blowoff match. However if you go and watch even the 15th best Jerry Lawler brawl from the 80s you can't help but see how tame and ineffective this match is by comparison. Everything about it was a mess and it just goes to show that apart from a few select matches, the whole choreographed and WWE style spectacle very rarely leads to great hate filled brawls.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ___

The Jericho LMS match however is HHH's best performance, and the best LMS in company history. Rather than having a bunch of telegraphed spots and repetitive referee counts, HHH just methodically weakens Jericho throughout and targets one specific part of the body to keep him grounded and be unable to answer the ten count, it perfectly fit HHH's character and Jericho does an excellent job in working from the bottom and making his comeback the major focus of the match. I also adored how a lot of the time the referee would only begin counting when both men were down, rather than having a heel/face just stand there and let their opponent be counted down both men just tried to murder each other throughout and more often than not this led to both men being incapacitated and having to answer the count. The finish is also pitch perfect, HHH gets up just in time to make you hate him and feel like the luckiest SOB in the arena, and then promptly collapses to further rile the crowd up as they realise for all intensive purposes he shouldn't have been able to get up and answer the count.

Royal Rumble 2000 is his best match, and the LMS his career performance for me.
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