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Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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#1 ·
#8,261 ·
Austin/Benoit in 01 before their amazing SmackDown match is one of the better Raw matches. Bunch of sub-ten minute matches from 96-97 like Austin/Mankind and Mankind/Owen. I'd say the first Henry/Punk from this year belongs in the talk. Then, of course, HHH/Michaels from Christmas 97. :mark:
 
#8,265 · (Edited)
Edge and HBK had two street fights. One in 2005 and the other in 2007.
Ah, that's probably why I was in shock.

Random ratings:
HBK/Orton - SSeries '07 - ****1/2
I don't remember that AT ALL. I remember HBK's return but nothing about their match.

Edit - Didn't Benoit and HBK have a really good Raw match leading up to Mania 20?
 
#8,266 ·
Royal Rumble 2005:

Edge vs Shawn Michaels - ***1/4
- After building this feud up from Taboo Tuesday, it finally comes to an end in this match when Edge uses the ropes to win. Nothing too great but some decent back and forth action and Edge's version of the Sharpshooter (Edgecator) is pretty cool. Thought it made him look weak, though, when two spears couldn't take HBK down. But at least Edge won so that makes up for it.

Undertaker vs Heidenreich (Casket Match) - ***
- Not as good as their SVS 04 match but still another decent bout which is surprising to an extent. I like Heidenrape's over the top selling of his fear for the casket but I thought bringing in Snitsky and Kane into this was a bit random. A cool spot was the apron legdrop into the casket which looked brutal. And speaking of Snitsky, that backstage segment with Heidenreich was even more homoerotic than WWE intended it to be, lol. And while we're talking about non-match stuff, I can't help but laugh at the way Undertaker says "Heeeeidenreeich... at the Royal Rumble.... you will rest... in... peace!" during the promo, specially the "Heidenreich" part. Reminds me of comedians that imitate horror movie villains.

JBL vs Big Show vs Kurt Angle - **3/4
- Below my expectations but still acceptable. Just too much outside interference that ruins it and it was only barely above 10 minutes. As always, JBL finds a sneaky way to escape with the title around his waist. It was also pretty cool when Big Show didn't need any slams performed on him to break the table by falling into it all himself.

Triple H vs Randy Orton - ***1/4
- This is one of their more 'accepted' matches out here and I can see why. A bit too slow with HHH working on the knees at a methodical pace then Orton sells the concussion that costs him the match after taking control towards the end. Well worked in terms of psychology. But I'm confused by the crowd. While I have noticed a few boos directed at Orton in previous Raw shows, here they even start a "Randy sucks" chant after giving him a decent pop during entrance. I guess it really was the best decision to turn him heel again, plus he's just better at playing that role.

Royal Rumble Match - ****
- Very enjoyable Rumble with some memorable spots from Angle/HBK starting their feud to the mini Raw/Smackdown showdown until Muhammad Hassan unites them in one. One person that stood out during the majority of the match to me is Edge. Here he is getting a bunch of heat before he was even in the Lita/Matt Hardy thing. But I guess it's not hard to get booed when you eliminate Eddie Guerrero & Rey Mysterio. Batista & Cena are the final two as if Vince had everything planned for his future stars and controversially, both are eliminated at the same time. According to Cena, it was not planned and Vince coming out was unscripted. When you look at how things continued later on and how fast they improvised, I find it a bit hard to believe. And the crowd was electric towards the end, both Batista & Cena had some minor boos when their hand was raised while 95% of the crowd was cheering both. I'm surprised at how over Batista got so fast when three months earlier there was a "Batista can't get over" sign that security took away. I also like how Tazz & JR show bias towards their brand which was a preview for the awesome brand feud that ended at Survivor Series. Furthermore on brands, I think it's amazing how superior Raw's roster was at this point. Smackdown is forced to bring out jobbers and irrelevant people whereas about every single Raw entrant had a purpose. Except Jonathan Coachman, that is. I have no idea why he was in this match for so long when it should've just been a quick elimination at best.

Overall: ***3/4 out of ***** (A very good PPV with a great card. In the previous Royal Rumble, the gimmick match itself was the only worthwhile part of the show with a very underwhelming undercard, but this year, the whole thing is stacked with some of the company's bigger stars participating in the undercard. And as expected, the matches deliver to at least decent level and nothing is horrible.)

Edit - Didn't Benoit and HBK have a really good Raw match leading up to Mania 20?
They had two excellent matches. One in February and another for the World Title a couple of weeks after Backlash. Around early May that will be.
 
#8,267 ·
@KingCal: Thanks, guess I may not check it out then if it's nothing special.
____________

WWE presents... Starrcade: The Essential Collection (3 Discs)

Quick Thoughts: Very good set; the documentary left a little to be desired but at least WWE gave the event some props but you know that they can't give WCW too much credit. The matches for the most part were great with some hiccups here and there but overall you can't really go wrong here, lots of classic matches.


Disc 1:
Hollywood Hogan vs. Roddy Piper (12/29/96)- *3/4
Sting vs. The Great Muta (12/13/89)- ***
Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas vs. Barry Windham & Brian Pillman (12/28/92)- ****1/4
Goldberg vs. Kevin Nash (12/27/98)- **1/2
Battlebowl (12/29/91)- **1/4
Dustin Rhodes vs. Steve Austin (12/27/93)- ***

Disc 2:
Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs. The Road Warriors (11/16/87)- ***3/4-****
Rey Mysterio vs. Jushin Thunder Liger (12/29/96)- ****
Rock N' Roll Express vs. Midnight Express (11/16/87)- *
Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger (12/26/88)- ****1/2
Eddie Guerrero vs. Shinjiro Otani (12/27/95)- ***1/2+
The Road Warriors vs. Dusty Rhodes & Sting (12/26/88)- ***1/2
Sting vs. Vader (12/28/92)- ****1/4+
Brisco Brothers vs. Ricky Steamboat & Jay Youngblood (11/24/83)- ***3/4
Ric Flair vs. Dusty Rhodes (11/28/85)- ****
Eddie Guerrero vs. Dean Malenko (12/28/97)- **1/2

Disc 3:
The Road Warriors vs. The Steiner Brothers (12/13/89)- ***
Noble vs. Karagias vs. Helms vs. Moore vs. Yang vs. Hayashi (12/17/00)- ***
Ric Flair vs. Sting (12/13/89)- ****
Greg Valentine vs. Roddy Piper (11/13/83)- ****1/4
The Road Warriors vs. The Midnight Express (12/27/86)- **
Hollywood Hogan vs. Sting (12/28/97)- *1/2
Harley Race vs. Ric Flair (11/24/83)- ****-****1/4
Magnum TA vs. Tully Blanchard (11/28/85)- *****
Ric Flair vs. Vader (12/27/93)- ****1/4
 
#8,268 ·
Ah, that's probably why I was in shock.



I don't remember that AT ALL. I remember HBK's return but nothing about their match.

Edit - Didn't Benoit and HBK have a really good Raw match leading up to Mania 20?
I'd recommend giving it a look. It's their rematch from Cyber Sunday and HBK isn't allowed to use the Sweet Chin Music. I hadn't watched it in a long time until a couple days ago and I love it.
 
#8,269 ·
Did Triple H and Maven have a match on RAW? I remember Triple laying on the mat and Maven crawling to make the cover and J.R. screaming "Cover his ass! Cover his ass!" The crowd was also on fire.

I'd recommend giving it a look. It's their rematch from Cyber Sunday and HBK isn't allowed to use the Sweet Chin Music. I hadn't watched it in a long time until a couple days ago and I love it.
Was also trying to remember if Orton and HBK had a match at SS 2007, then you brought up the stipulation and it all came back. Never saw the match though. Will give it a watch.
 
#8,270 ·
They had two excellent matches. One in February and another for the World Title a couple of weeks after Backlash. Around early May that will be.


Def need to look those up.

I'd recommend giving it a look. It's their rematch from Cyber Sunday and HBK isn't allowed to use the Sweet Chin Music. I hadn't watched it in a long time until a couple days ago and I love it.
I remember that stip. Forgot they had a CS match. How was that? I don't remember that feud much so I'm hoping it's not because it sucked... :eek:
 
#8,271 ·
Did Triple H and Maven have a match on RAW? I remember Triple laying on the mat and Maven crawling to make the cover and J.R. screaming "Cover his ass! Cover his ass!" The crowd was also on fire.



Was also trying to remember if Orton and HBK had a match at SS 2007, then you brought up the stipulation and it all came back. Never saw the match though. Will give it a watch.
Yeah, I believe it was the first Raw after SVS 2004, and Maven was GM and put himself in the WHC match.

Match was alright from what I remember, but of course JR commentary like the quote in there is what makes alright matches good, good matches great, great matches awesome, and awesome matches classics (or contributes to it anyway).
 
#8,275 ·
Yeah, these would for sure be on my top 10 Raw matches list:

Bret/Kid
Owen/Davey
Austin & Michaels/Owen & Davey
Powertrip/Non-drawing, Canadian, Vanilla Midgets
Michaels/Benoit in Arizona
Michaels/Shelton Goldrush
Michaels/Cena 4/23/07

I'll have to think about/rewatch Michaels/Razor 8/94, Michaels/Kid 96, Michaels/Mankind 8/97, 10-Man Tag in Dallas, Edge/Hardy Street Fight, Edge/Flair TLC, Edge/Michaels 07 Street Fight, Christian/Jericho Cage Match, TLC IV, Angle/Benoit Cage, Taker/Hardy Ladder Match, Eddie/RVD Ladder Match, Michaels/HHH Dec. 03, and probably others I'm not thinking about right now.

Those Evolution tags were great especially the go home show to Backlash and the night after Bad Blood 2004.

I don't remember that AT ALL. I remember HBK's return but nothing about their match.

Edit - Didn't Benoit and HBK have a really good Raw match leading up to Mania 20?
It's a classic and so is Benoit/Michaels from Arizona. This is what I wrote about Orton/Michaels a few months ago:

Clique said:
Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels - WWE Survivor Series 11/18/2007


“Both men are forced to wrestle and it’s great to see a pure wrestling match here for the WWE Title.” – J.R.


Prior to this match for five weeks straight Shawn Michaels delivered Sweet Chin Music to Randy Orton. At Cyber Sunday, the WWE Champion used a low blow to save his title. As a result, special stipulations were made for this blow off match. Randy got Sweet Chin Music banned in this match and if Shawn uses his finisher he will lose and never get another shot at the title again. However, if Randy intentionally gets disqualified, Shawn becomes WWE Champion. These stipulations are an intelligent answer to everything Michaels and Orton did to each other their heated feud.

The match instantly intrigued me based on the stipulations alone. Shawn is once again in his career forced to change his game plan in a big title match. HBK worked aggressively with grounded submission holds such as a neck vice then a headlock applied with vicious knee shots to the head combonation. After Orton escaped Michaels used his wit by feinting SCM and placing the Champion in a body scissors with a rear naked chokehold.

Orton, the resilient WWE Champion fought out of Shawn’s submission wrestling strategy and turns the match in his favor with a dirty thumb to the eye. King brought up a good point in questioning if Orton’s use of that dirty move constitutes a disqualification but just like Shawn's teasing of super kick didn't end cause a disqualification.

Shawn's vulnerable head also suffered the wrath of the viper like Orton with a DDT off the middle rope and then body scissors/rear naked choke combination himself. This was strong psychology shown by Orton playing on the story that he gave Shawn a concussion and he will exploit that injury with submission holds.

The match at this point is a nicely wrestled contest of back and forth submission applications but it was Shawn again to shock everyone with a famous submission hold. On the 10th anniversary of the Montreal Incident, Michaels used the SHARPSHOOTER in a WWE title match once again at Survivor Series! Shawn’s Sharpshooter was not 'excellently executed' and Orton made it to the ropes but it was an interesting callback to incorporate into the match.

Next, it is interesting Shawn tunes up the band again to throw Orton off his game (this plays a role in finish) which led to a quick near fall. Shawn shocks us again by using the CRIPPLER CROSSFACE! This was the first time it was used live on WWE TV since the Benoit Incident. The Miami crowd popped because the climax of the match had arrived!

When Orton set up The Punt, the move he used to take Shawn out of the WWE for months, Shawn countered with an ANKLE LOCK! Shawn used many of the major submission holds he has felt from his former submission expert rivals (Hart, Angle, and Benoit). Talk about pulling out an unpredictable bag of tricks – I love it! When Shawn grapevines the leg it seems as if Randy would tap out. But Randy again used his long legs to kick Shawn in the head repeatedly until he breaks the hold.

Michaels tried the Figure Four Leg Lock (wooo) but Orton kicked him headfirst into the steel post in the corner of the ring. Again this is an intelligent play on the concussion injury. It is also ironic Orton used kicks multiple times in this match to save himself from losing yet Shawn can’t use his kick to extract revenge on the man that tried to end his career.

The finish is so smartly executed and completely connects with the story they created in the match. Orton has Michaels set up for the RKO but Shawn side swipes him and for a split second HBK instinctively attempted the illegal Sweet Chin Music. We see Shawn lift his leg up for the kick but he stops himself because he realizes he could lose the match. He loses the match anyway because Orton rapidly capitalizes with a swift RKO! Shawn being caught up, psyched himself out, and Sweet Chin Music ultimately led to his defeat not Orton's - brilliant psychology!

As I said earlier the stipulations made this match unique and both men had to adapt and wrestle out of their comfort zones. Both Shawn’s and Randy’s exceptional usage of psychology to tell their story in making strategic moves to win and obtaining revenge make it one of the best WWE Championship matches of 2007.
 
#8,277 ·
Orton/HBK > Batista/Taker from SVS 07. That's a classic match and one of the few bright spots in the dark second half of 2007. Haven't seen their CS matches but they should be good too.

And HBK using the Crossface & Ankle Lock long after Benoit & Angle were memories for WWE fans was such a mark out moment!
 
#8,278 ·
That match! :shocked: Just saw it, very fun. Nice ending, Hunico's becoming one of my favorites.

Also thanks for posting that match Brye, added it too my watch later list. I remember the big spot in that match but not the entire match. Will check it out soon enough.
Yeah it's a blast of a match. ***1/2.

6 man tag is another uber fun match to watch. I loved it.

:lmao @ someone mentioning Taka/HHH in here. holy SHIT my level of excitement being a kid watching that was unreal. I legit thought Taka beat him. Especially with the Michinoku driver. Awesome, awesome, awesome. (Y)

Greg, go watch HBK/Orton now plz. I own it. So I can watch it anytime. :eek: [meaningless brag/]
 
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