Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 411 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 07-19-2012, 05:24 PM   #4101 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysSunny For AIW View Post
What are you guys talking about? That match would still be more entertaining than the Kane/Khali match at WM 23 that we got instead.
No, it would suck as much as Kane/Khali did and since it's Hogan, it would go on for at least 10 minutes whereas the Kane/Khali match was about 5 minutes long.

EDIT: Beaten to it.
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Old 07-19-2012, 05:28 PM   #4102 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

It's a Hogan match. He would of worked the crowd a lot better than anything Kane/Khali could do. So I disagree unless you are talking about only what they try in the ring. Then yeah, it would suck.

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Originally Posted by Brye View Post
Yeah but if Hogan was in it they would've given it an extra 10 minutes and like a co-main event status.
Shit, you're right. That would of been a pain in the ass also.

It's a lose-lose situation.
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Old 07-19-2012, 05:37 PM   #4103 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Hogan/Khali was supposed to be the Hogan/Andre spot 20 years later. Hogan is the greatest "babyface in peril" of all time IMO. It would have been entertaining for that final spot when the stadium explodes after Hogan is giving him the slam. Probably the most entertaining Khali match of all time.
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Old 07-19-2012, 05:39 PM   #4104 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Rock/Cena was painfully average, Cena could have been so much better character wise and performance wise given some of his best work comes when playing the default heel against his opponent's hometown crowd. A lot of it was just standard WWE main event style wrestling, they seemed to just hope for an epic finish and a lot of the middle was just weird: one moment they're brawling on the floor, the next minute they're working body scissors and headlock spots. To me I think they just aimed to work a match entirely around the characters of both men, which is weird because both men have certainly delivered much better against a variety of different opponents where they can work a very structured and detailed match. I'll admit to frankly preferring Cena in ring than Rock, and figured with Rock's ability to always get a crowd involvd in a match, as well as Cena's polarising charisma and sublime facial expressions to sell a match we'd be in for a match that would surprise a lot of people. Instead I was painfully disappointed. Think the only things I really dug where the opening with Rock reeling off a string of moves and Cena retreating to the corner in complete shock, and the Crossbody > AA counter which I legit thought was the match ender given there was like 6 minutes left before it was 4am and the end of the PPV. Also, both men should never ever work a match based around holds, jesus some of the it was hard to watch, namely the STF and Sharpshooters.

I have no complaints if people focus on the atmosphere and icon/icon nature of the match, but to try and sell the in ring action as enthralling or superb is really stretching it IMO. Like I said if you just love the characters of both men and just concentrate on the aura rather than the actual content...then I could appreciate the argument even if I don't agree with it. But saying it had memorable spots and making out it was a storytelling and ring clinic seems incredibly absurd to me.

Controversial statement of the evening: Cena/Khali Judgement Day is a better match than Rock/Cena. Khali is terrible but manages to find a role that works fine for him: big monster who looks unstoppable, and luckily has Cena in the middle of his career year bumping big for all Khali's offence and just selling the ranging emotions superbly through his facial expressions. Once again evidence that Cena is at his best against a hopelessly bigger opponent (Umaga, Khali, Big Show, Lesnar).

Hogan is a sterling FIP, just simply for his overness alone. But Mysterio, Steamboat, Morton, Terry Funk and Lawler would all rank ahead of him IMO if we're talking babyface performers, hell given the right environment I'd struggle to say Cena isn't better than him in that role, but with Cena it does depend largely on the opponent and booking within the match, e.g the Miz matches are awful and hardly a good case for his talent. I'd also probably pump for Windham at his peak as well as Sting if we're going for pure babyfaces, not only where both of these men insanely over and beloved, they also actually worked the face in peril role better in terms of selling and adding little touches that Hogan didn't. And this is coming from someone who's slowly believing Hogan isn't terrible in the ring, clearly limited but who knew his role and perfected a formula that allowed his charisma and character to shine at the expense of his physical limitations.

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Old 07-19-2012, 05:47 PM   #4105 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I might watch Cena/Khali JD 07 again. I recall it being better than it had any business being (maybe 3 star match which would make it Khali's best non-gimmick singles match for sure) decent but nothing more than that.
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Old 07-19-2012, 05:53 PM   #4106 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I think Cena is better in that match than anything in The Rock/Cena match bar the crowd atmosphere. It also doesn't hurt that plucky babyface v monster heel is slowly becoming one of my all time favourite matchups in wrestling. I certainly think in terms of ring story and structure Cena/Khali is the better match (it doesn't go too long where it drags), but concede Rock/Cena will have that Mania atmosphere and character dynamic that will make people ignore the actual holds and ringwork in the match.

For me Rock/Cena has no business going 30 minutes, Rock/Hogan was perfection in terms of layout and length, giving Hogan enough time to milk the crowd and capture that aura but at the same time keeping the match at a quicker and frantic pace and not trying to kid themselves in thinking 2002 Hulk Hogan could go over 25 minutes in the ring. Cena/Rock for me had an extraordinary amount of downtime in the match because of the booking to go 30 minutes, if it was cut in half I think we would have had a much more sound match.
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Old 07-19-2012, 06:28 PM   #4107 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Clique View Post
I might watch Cena/Khali JD 07 again. I recall it being better than it had any business being (maybe 3 star match which would make it Khali's best non-gimmick singles match for sure) decent but nothing more than that.
To me, that's a 1 star match at best. Truly an awful main event. It lasts about ten minutes, for about 6 minutes, Khali just tosses Cena around like a jobber, then his hands get stuck between the ropes and Cena starts punching him for a few seconds before Khali quickly pushes him to kill his chances of a comeback. Then they go outside the ring and while Khali stands by the steel-steps, Cena dropkicks it and Khali sells it like he's unable to move anymore and tries to slowly get in the ring. Cena does his top rope legdrop then the STFU which is locked in for about 1 minute before Khali taps out.

I kept hearing about how Cena brought the best out of Khali but then watched both matches they had at JD and ONS and they were equally awful. The only match anywhere close to passable I've seen between them is the triple threat also involving Umaga, but even there, SuperCena gets squashed every time he's there and suddenly FUs Khali after he tosses Umaga out of the ring.
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Old 07-19-2012, 06:32 PM   #4108 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Khali/Cena was horrendous. By Khali standards or normal standards. JD is a dud, ONS I can give *-** for the almost decent brawl and great spot for the finish.

Khali's best match IMO is Batista/Mysterio/Khali, September PPV 2007.
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Old 07-19-2012, 06:34 PM   #4109 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I'd say Khali's best match was the LMS against Taker on Smackdown but I haven't watched it in ages.
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Old 07-19-2012, 06:37 PM   #4110 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

To be honest, Khali had a couple of good matches during his monster run. I loved his match against Undertaker at Judgment Day 2006 & their Last Man Standing match on Smackdown. Also enjoyed Khali/Cena Judgment Day 2007 & Khali/Cena One Night Stand 2007.

Onto another match I watched last night. Undertaker vs. Triple H from WrestleMania 27. First time I've watched it in a while and in all honesty, I found it quite boring until maybe the end. Maybe I wasn't in the mood for watching it because on first watch and second watch, I had it at ****1/2 I believe, on this watch, I'd give it ***1/2. I'll probably need to watch it again but on the last watch, the only bits I found myself really enjoying was the start and the false finish Tombstone from Triple H/the end.
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