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Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

2M views 21K replies 512 participants last post by  Starbuck 
#1 ·
#8,161 ·
The Cena/Jericho match was in Boston and Cena's first match back from neck surgery. I liked the moment Cena was questioning himself on the top rope before hitting the move that led to his neck injury. Jericho did had a solid heel control segment on Cena's neck with a neckbreakers and a vice lock. It's on the World Championship DVD.
 
#8,162 ·
I have no problem with the comebacks but it's the hypocrisy behind it all.

"Oh Cena's this big fucking Superman who kicks out of everything, let me go proceed to ride CM Punk's cock as I jizz over his match with Daniel Bryan at MITB"

It's just that someone people are just too blind out there, it's either that or they can't form their opinion and are just riding the wave. One guy said "Cena is superman" and the rest follow suit. How is it people could call Cena Superman and not realize Punk wasn't any different?
Exactly. If you have no problem with faces making unrealistic "heroic" comebacks then it's not about you, but my problem is the hypocrites that hate on Cena and say he's "superman" every time he wins yet they give one of their favorites like Punk a pass if he does something as bad.

And to continue the talk of the LeBell Lock hold, it's not that it was just a submission hold, it's the fact Bryan also did the Crossface part of it with a fucking KENDO STICK! When he lays there no-selling the move for minutes and with one hand breaks the hold, that's the definition of BURYING it. I hate that term, but in this case, it fits perfectly.
 
#8,163 · (Edited)
CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS IX: RIC FLAIR VS. TERRY FUNK I QUIT MATCH - 11/15/1989

So I just watched this classic again after not seeing it in a very long time and it's just as incredible as I remembered.

From the start you can feel the hate between Funk and Flair. Physical attacks by both funk and flair. Flair with ruthless chops and Funk doing everything he can to put as much physical pain as possible onto flair. Starts with immediate action with no feeling out process which signifies the process of the I Quit match. The emotion from the start is incredible.

Terry Funk's performance in this match is one of the greatest I've ever seen. Funk hits a neckbreaker on flair to gain the advantage and just starts to destroy the neck of flair. Screaming at flair with the mic "Remember your neck!" Funk hits a vicious piledriver in the ring and an absolutely ruthless piledriver on the floor one right after another and the selling of the offense is incredible by flair. Funk continues his offense on flair asking for flair to quit and flair will not. Funk sets up a table to end flair and flair turns the tables on funk with desperate chops and punches. Funk sells Flair's attacks like they are the most painful attacks he's ever felt.

Flair once he gains the advantage just tries to destroy Funk, and Funk trying to carry on the family legacy just keeps coming back to fight him. Then Flair begins to work on the leg, flair places Funk's leg across the rope and the pop he gets is incredible. Flair works over the leg fantastically, and funk sells like he has a dead leg. Funk will not go down because he's giving it his all, even after ruthless shots and his leg gives out on him.

We get an incredible moment between Funk and Flair by the ropes where they are just punching and chopping at eachother. Then Flair locks in the figure four. Funk screams that he will never quit, Funk screams that his leg is breaking and says I quit.

Absolutely incredible match, Funk and Flair left me speechless. *****

Link: http://www.wwe.com/videos/clash-of-the-champions-ix-ric-flair-vs-terry-funk-11151989-25058774
 
#8,164 ·
Cannot agree with the notion of Punk/Y2J at mania being better than the ER match.

The crowd was dead for almost the entire mania match and only came to life towards the end.
 
#8,166 · (Edited)
Best Cena/Show match is still that Smackdown 09 match. Shame most of their PPV encounters are amongst their worst, because with the right setting and motivation they do have good chemistry.

Funk/Flair series in 89 is incredible, and when you factor in the 5 Steamboat matches on top of that Flair's year is stacked beyond belief. Both men are great showmen and performers whilst still having a workrate wrestling brain to make the theatrics and charisma part of the developing story, and both men have the subtle nuances in their craft down to a tee to really sell a feud and angle. Funk to me is the most naturally talented wrestler of all time, in terms of the ability to just know how to wrestle and act in any given setting against any given opponent and never fail to not deliver.

Wrote something about Cena's comeback a few pages back:

I am a much bigger fan of Cena than most, but I'm not about to overlook when he's at his worst, e.g the I Quit match vs Miz which was just the Cena comeback done without the savvyness it usually has.

I think a poster by the name of Walk-In summed it up best. In US wrestling you'll always get the babyface comeback which focuses on sequences of moves to even the score after enduring a gruelling workover, this is the same whether its Hogan, Cena, Austin, Rock, Lawler, Sting, Orton, Punk, Mysterio, Eddie etc. The key principle is to sell brilliantly during your workoever, to really communicate sympathy and desperation to the crowd to get them invested and to earn your comeback, to me Cena really is exceptional at this. I'm not about to say his energy burst isn't irritable given the workover which preceeds it, but to me his selling and bumping and facial expressions to sell a match during the middle sort of give him...I don't want to say 'a pass', but more along the lines of it fits the story that Cena is against the wall and needs to string a comeback together or risk losing the match, since he can't take much more punishment.

Its the same reason I adore Jerry Lawler's comeback. He'd drop the strap and have a high energy/fastly paced comeback which to some people could be poor selling, but to me the timing of the comeback as well as the brillant selling during the workover create this 'now or never' emotion in Lawler matches that pull a crowd into his comeback, and therefore I always see his comebacks as 'last chance saloon' rather than 'oh its time to get my shit in and hit my moves'. It always feels like it has a purpose, like he has to be on offence now or he risks losing the match.

Its the same with Cena and Mysterio, although Rey does it far better to me through his speed and offence not being as played out as Cena's. Still, whilst Cena's comeback can often than not be irritable and feel like no-selling, more often than not I find his superb timing essentially creates the feeling he's earned this comeback, and therefore when its timed and executed well its far better than him blowing off his opponent's offence just to hit some moves: i.e a problem I have when Kurt Angle will often 'pop up' after a big move in order to hit a move of his own, his attempts at this never feel as well timed or earnt and consequently force me to see it in a far negative light than I do when Cena has his 'fiery comeback'.
 
#8,167 ·
CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS IX: RIC FLAIR VS. TERRY FUNK I QUIT MATCH - 11/15/1989

So I just watched this classic again after not seeing it in a very long time and it's just as incredible as I remembered.

From the start you can feel the hate between Funk and Flair. Physical attacks by both funk and flair. Flair with ruthless chops and Funk doing everything he can to put as much physical pain as possible onto flair. Starts with immediate action with no feeling out process which signifies the process of the I Quit match. The emotion from the start is incredible.

Terry Funk's performance in this match is one of the greatest I've ever seen. Funk hits a neckbreaker on flair to gain the advantage and just starts to destroy the neck of flair. Screaming at flair with the mic "Remember your neck!" Funk hits a vicious piledriver in the ring and an absolutely ruthless piledriver on the floor one right after another and the selling of the offense is incredible by flair. Funk continues his offense on flair asking for flair to quit and flair will not. Funk sets up a table to end flair and flair turns the tables on funk with desperate chops and punches. Funk sells Flair's attacks like they are the most painful attacks he's ever felt.

Flair once he gains the advantage just tries to destroy Funk, and Funk trying to carry on the family legacy just keeps coming back to fight him. Then Flair begins to work on the leg, flair places Funk's leg across the rope and the pop he gets is incredible. Flair works over the leg fantastically, and funk sells like he has a dead leg. Funk will not go down because he's giving it his all, even after ruthless shots and his leg gives out on him.

We get an incredible moment between Funk and Flair by the ropes where they are just punching and chopping at eachother. Then Flair locks in the figure four. Funk screams that he will never quit, Funk screams that his leg is breaking and says I quit.

Absolutely incredible match, Funk and Flair left me speechless. *****

Link: http://www.wwe.com/videos/clash-of-the-champions-ix-ric-flair-vs-terry-funk-11151989-25058774
One of my favourite matches of all time, Best I quit match ever as well, Story tell at its best with no need for chair shoots or over the top spots. Need to watch it again but ***** seems spot on.
 
#8,168 ·
"Superman performances" can be fun sometimes. I love it when Taker would make those big comebacks in tag team matches where he gives everyone his signature moves before the finish. Sting and Lex had fiery comebacks against Flair that lit up a crowd and made you feel this was going to be the final comeuppance for Flair.

However, sometimes when Cena does it the build doesn't make the comeback feel as special to me. Sometimes a comeback like that could make what happened before sour instead finally the heel is going to get his ass handed to him. Examples of Cena comebacks I didn't like - Cena/Orton I Quit Match (I agree fantastic match but still wasn't digging the comeback), Nexus tag at SummerSlam '10, Cena/Miz I Quit Match, and quite a few TV matches in general over the years (usually tag matches). Cena's babyface performance overall in the Lesnar match at Extreme Rules is tremendous but I can understand why people hate the finish even though Lesnar's brutality and presence, and Cena taking all of that punishment forced many of us in Allstate Arena to root for the hero. Cena comebacks that I love are his LMS with Umaga and I Quit Match with JBL to name a couple. I even enjoyed the character work he did in his Survivor Series match with Jericho a few years ago.
Isn't the Summerslam tag a victim of the PPV running too long? I thought I heard that which is why Cena took out Gabriel & Barrett in such a swift span.

Kudos on dropping Flair vs *any hot face at the time*. Especially Luger. That guy had his career performances thanks to Flair.

CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS IX: RIC FLAIR VS. TERRY FUNK I QUIT MATCH - 11/15/1989

So I just watched this classic again after not seeing it in a very long time and it's just as incredible as I remembered.

From the start you can feel the hate between Funk and Flair. Physical attacks by both funk and flair. Flair with ruthless chops and Funk doing everything he can to put as much physical pain as possible onto flair. Starts with immediate action with no feeling out process which signifies the process of the I Quit match. The emotion from the start is incredible.

Terry Funk's performance in this match is one of the greatest I've ever seen. Funk hits a neckbreaker on flair to gain the advantage and just starts to destroy the neck of flair. Screaming at flair with the mic "Remember your neck!" Funk hits a vicious piledriver in the ring and an absolutely ruthless piledriver on the floor one right after another and the selling of the offense is incredible by flair. Funk continues his offense on flair asking for flair to quit and flair will not. Funk sets up a table to end flair and flair turns the tables on funk with desperate chops and punches. Funk sells Flair's attacks like they are the most painful attacks he's ever felt.

Flair once he gains the advantage just tries to destroy Funk, and Funk trying to carry on the family legacy just keeps coming back to fight him. Then Flair begins to work on the leg, flair places Funk's leg across the rope and the pop he gets is incredible. Flair works over the leg fantastically, and funk sells like he has a dead leg. Funk will not go down because he's giving it his all, even after ruthless shots and his leg gives out on him.

We get an incredible moment between Funk and Flair by the ropes where they are just punching and chopping at eachother. Then Flair locks in the figure four. Funk screams that he will never quit, Funk screams that his leg is breaking and says I quit.

Absolutely incredible match, Funk and Flair left me speechless. *****

Link: http://www.wwe.com/videos/clash-of-the-champions-ix-ric-flair-vs-terry-funk-11151989-25058774
Incredible match, indeed. Their Great American Bash '89 match is even better, imo. Watch that again if you haven't already.

Best Cena/Show match is still that Smackdown 09 match. Shame most of their PPV encounters are amongst their worst, because with the right setting and motivation they do have good chemistry.
YES (one word sums up my response)
 
#8,175 ·
2009 has Smackdown being great for a good 3-4 months, but its really ECW and Superstars where the real quality shines. Raw pretty much sucked story wise and match quality wise, but ECW had Christian working his arse off against anyone and everyone, with the 2/24 Swagger title match being one of the best matches of the year (and better than HBK/Taker imo). Superstars had some really great matches from the likes of Goldust, Regal and Christian and even Smackdown came into its own with the Punk/Hardy feud and the eventual Loser Leaves Town Cage Match. The Mysterio/Jericho series was also pretty good, but I don't care for it as much as others and vastly prefer the Punk/Mysterio feud in terms of match output.
 
#8,176 ·
I wish I could erase some of those Raw episodes I watched from 2009 out of my mind. After WrestleMania many were just terrible. Smackdown and ECW in 2009 were really good especially when "It's...Christian" returned and when Jericho/Punk/Jeff/Morrison were drafted to the blue brand.
 
#8,177 ·
1989 Flair > ALL.

Seriously, that 5 match stretch between the Steamboat matches and the Funk matches are some of the greatest matches ever, and all 5 would probably be in my top 10 WCW matches ever list. Couple those matches with the Windham matches and you have all you need to know about Ric Flair being the greatest of all time.

The guy was wrestling **** 1/4 matches in 2005 for fuck sakes ! I was always a big fan of old man Flair, here is a list of his absolute best from 04-06 (All *** or higher, FUCK YEAH FLAIR):

Evolution 8 man tag 04
vs Shelton BL 04
W/Eugene vs La Resistance VEN 04
W/Batista vs Regal/Benoit UNF 04
vs Orton TT 04
vs Angle Raw 05
vs Carlito UNF 05 (just for all the post match greatness)
vs HHH TT 05
vs HHH SS 05
vs Flair RAW 06
MITB II
vs HHH Raw 06
vs Big Show ECW 06
vs Foley SS 06
 
#8,178 ·
Since we're on the topic of years, thought I'd drop this here. I'm now at the start of 2005 and Raw has been excellent while Smackdown has improved from most of 2004. I'm now downloading all the PPVs, Raw & Smackdown episodes up until the Benoit tribute and from then on, I will go back to 1997 and watch until 2002. Then when I end up at the start of 2003 which I've already watched, I'll carry on where I left off in 2007 and the plan is to continue up until Wrestlemania 25. But based on comments here, it might not be quite the nightmare it's said to be to watch the whole year of 2009 so is it recommended that I watch the whole year? I mean, Orton was the top heel so that automatically puts it above 2012 for me and after 09, I've already watched a lot of 2010 (only Raw, though) and the entirety of 2011.
 
#8,179 ·
Smackdown that summer was some of the most fun i've had as a wrestling fan.

I honestly didn't expect Punk to come out on top in his feud with Hardy. The feud concluded on TV which was a cool thing to see. Produced one of the best TV cage matches i've seen.

Raw as alot of people like to point out took a nosedive after backlash, that Cena/Orton feud was horrible. They turned orton into a complete bitch, and there was also the DX reunion that nobody asked for.
 
#8,180 ·
Like 6 days late on this, but top 5 WM main events:

1. Rock/Austin WM17
2. Benoit/HHH/Michaels WM20
3. Taker/Michaels WM26
4. Cena/Michaels WM23
5. Taker/Edge WM24

I haven't watched any of the Hogan matches in a few years, though.
 
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