Wrestling Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

2M views 21K replies 512 participants last post by  Starbuck 
#1 ·
#8,102 · (Edited)
Ownage™;12208697 said:
Segunda Caida what did you think of Lesnar/HHH?
Taken from another place:

Lesnar/HHH in theory had some good elements, but fuck me it was sooooooooooooooooo boring. HHH was never going to bump around and let Lesnar beat him like Cena did, so instead we got Brock working over the arm, and despite the work being good and fitting into the story....Lesnar just looked like a more aggressive Del Rio. The Cena match was unlike anything we'd seen for years, whereas this match despite being billed as the fight of the year didn't really feel that different to HHH/Punk or HHH/Taker. It was the same drawn out, slow plodding 'EPIC' HHH main event which just dragged and went too long.

Lesnar should be killing people, things like him attempting a cradle and working holds just seemed so out of place for 'a monster looking to hurt people'. At least when he injured Cena's arm at ER it was done in a snap fashion off of the Kimura, and put over Lesnar could kill you at any moment, rather than Lesnar just working a drawn out limb segment. Like I said it was good pyschology from a story standpoint, but it should have been a frantic pace to put over the hate, rather than some plodding and drawn out 'DRAMATIC MATCH'. Table spot and Lesnar's selling was excellent, but again would have worked much better if HHH had been like Cena and had little to no offence prior, I get they want to work some start where HHH 'gets in Lesnar's head' but the Cena deadlift powerslam out of the Kimura spot worked so well because despite being an amazingly impressive visual, it was the first real bit of offence he landed that hurt Lesnar. The table spot here was very well done, but HHH had largely been working even or not far behind Lesnar that it just didn't feel as big a hope spot as it could have been, HHH never looked as vulnerable as Cena did throughout the ER match and whilst I know we were never going to get a match close to Cena/Lesnar here, I just wished my predicition about HHH insisting on Lesnar working a slower pace hadn't come off. They made this personal and talked it up as a match which could end HHH's career, but did he honestly look anymore vulnerable than he did at Wrestlemania? Its like they wanted us to believe this was a career defining match and something horrific to watch...but they never wrestled or incorporated spots to reflect that.

HHH got banged up admittedly, but Cena looked like he was on the verge of being annihalated throughout the ER match, and this was coming off of a 3 week feud where they had one pull apart brawl, and Lesnar F-5ing Cena a couple of times. This had 3x the length in build, was far more personal in having Lesnar break HHH and HBK's arm...and yet the match had about 1/10th of the animosity and raw violence that Cena/Lesnar had. Again, it just goes back to HHH wanting to build the feud around this personal war but not wanting to eat the beating that would reflect that. And again, brawls/fights of this nature have to be excellent naturally, you can't work a slow pace and try to sell the drama, it just has to come naturally from the quick pace and big bumps. You watch a Lawler/Dundee match and it feels naturally dramatic, you see a HHH 'brawl' and it just feels so much damn slower and trying to capture this essence of 'emotion' and it just feels tame in comparison. I realise that's the WWE main event style, but holy god damn does it really show in a match like this. Finish made Brock look strong.
Ehh, there were things I did like about the match, but there's something about the way HHH lays out his version of a WWE Main Event Style match that just fails to pull me in. There were things I enjoyed, namely from Lesnar though I did appreciate them taking the effort to bring his real life injury into the equation, and Brock sold the shot in a really awesome 'monster realising he has a weakness after all' sort of way. Still there's just something in the atmosphere and way Cena lays out a match and eats a beating that had me glued into the Extreme Rules match. I knew going in HHH would never let Brock come close to beating him like Cena was prepared to, not that that is a knock against HHH per se but I knew Lesnar was never going to be allowed to look as terrifying as he was in Chicago, and I just didn't find the brawling exchanges to be that enthralling (which is a common recurrence for HHH brawling sans a few matches).
 
#8,103 ·
quick question

did treating triple h like a legit fighter annoy anyone here?

because i remember a lot of sand in vaginas in the rest of the forum with people complaining about how lesnar would murder triple h in 10 seconds

i mean its true, but seriously, its fucking wrestling. do you want them to admit theyre shit and have brock kill hunter but still
 
#8,104 ·
I thought HHH got far too much offence in, or at least they didn't time the point he went onto offence very well. To me he was never established in as much physical danger as Cena was, a lot of that can be attributed to Cena's selling and just the way he eats an asskicking, but its a problem for me when they build the feud largely around Lesnar being a machine and HHH potentially walking into a massacre. I honestly think bell to bell he probably took close to if not a greater beating in either Taker match, at least in terms of bumps.

I understood they were trying to go for the old 'fired up babyface can overcome the monster' story with HHH constantly being able to match Lesnar in the brawling exchanges in the build up. I thought they could have had Lesnar convincingly overcome a HHH onslaught to really sell how much of a monster he is, rather than simply retreating on numerous occasions but its standard wrestling storytelling so its not like I can complain about not being conditioned to it.

HHH's 'This isn't UFC' line really fucking sucked though imo. It just felt so cheesy and self-pandering on WWE's part instead of the battle cry it was supposed to sound like.
 
#8,105 ·
I think HHH getting so much offense was acceptable when he found a weakness in Lesnar to work on (the stomach). Although it still just feels weird that Cena (somebody who's made HHH tap out) was barely able to escape with a victory yet HHH hung with Lesnar like an experienced fighter.
 
#8,106 ·
The stomach assault and everything after felt acceptable, however prior to that HHH never felt as perilous as Cena did. Compare the Table spot to Cena deadlifting Lesnar onto the steps, both fucking tremendous spots, but the Cena spot stands out much better because of the timing and the beating Cena had taken prior. That was the first time he took Lesnar off his feet and seriously had him on the ropes, and the crowd reaction epitomised that. The spot in HHH/Lesnar was still excellent in its own right, but everything before it didn't give it that 'monumental changing of the tide' feeling it should have.

Again I just think it shows when you have Lesnar working a standard wrestling limb assault instead of letting the dude just mangle and decimate his opponents with an arsenal of strikes, submissions and displays of frightening power.

Lesnar sold both spots incredibly though, that I won't argue with. The Cena spot in particular just had him rocking this perfect 'what the fuck' face as pain pierced his body and he suddenly felt in a vulnerable position.
 
#8,107 ·
Watched The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle from September 2003 last night....

LOVED the emphasis on striking vs technical wrestling, those counters from strikes turning into fireman's carries/pinning combinations were a thing of beauty. Taker just decides "fuck it" and matches Angle's technical prowess in perhaps some of his greatest technical exchanges ever. They really put across the fact that if Taker connects with a strike, he'll absolutely KILL Angle, and Angle does a brilliant job of putting Taker's strikes over.

The whole "reverse all of Taker's finishers/moves into the Angle lock" sequences are pure gold and I think they're executed to near perfection (perfection would be the NWO 06 match). Taker's submissions seem insanely credible, and the POP for the fujiwara armbar is insane for what would be considered by the casual fan as a basic submission. I can't gush on about this match enough, one of the best television matches that I've ever seen for sure.

If you can, watch this match with the pre match interviews included, as they help contribute to the story..Like ALOT. How both are adamant about matching the others style, the passion...Actually, don't watch this WITHOUT the pre match interviews. This match kicks ass, and although I'm not as in love with this as Cal is, I believe that it deserved to be higher than 57 on the top 100 list (and it will be higher on my revision of the list ;) ) . Seriousy, don't know how HBK-Flair is ranked higher, even if it DOES have :flair

**** 1/2 (AWSUM)
 
#8,108 ·
New Year's Revolution 2005:

Eugene & William Regal vs Christian & Tyson Tomko - *3/4
- I hate tag matches and this one is no different. Always the same shit to the point you can call everything that happens before it actually does. What's more interesting is the fact Eugene injured his knee while doing a dropkick. I guess that finally gives us a few months break from his annoying ass character on the upcoming Raw episodes.
Please tell me you were exaggerating.

Undertaker vs Kurt Angle from SmackDown 2003 ~ ****3/4.

:mark: :mark: :mark:
 
#8,109 ·
Most overrated WWE match in 2012 (thus far) ?
Most underrated WWE match in 2012 (thus far) ?

PERSONAL favorite (NOT the best) ?

SHOOT.
 
#8,110 ·
Taker/HHH HIAC most overrated: Good match, but no more than ****
Underrated: Sheamus/Bryan Street Fight or Sheamus/Jericho on SD. Fuck, Sheamus has put on some good matches. If only his finishes weren't so predictable

Personal favorite: Punk/Bryan OTL
 
#8,111 ·
Overrated: Sheamus vs Chris Jericho vs Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio - Over The Limit 2012

Underrated: CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane - No Way Out 2012

PERSONAL Favorite: CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - Money In The Bank 2012

Nothing from TV sticks out from my mind simply because most praised what was deserving (Punk vs Danielson matches, Sheamus/Danielson street fight, Punk/Henry 4/2, Cena/Danielson, Sheamus/Dolph matches, etc)

Taker/HHH HIAC most overrated: Good match, but no more than ****
Underrated: Sheamus/Bryan Street Fight or Sheamus/Jericho on SD. Fuck, Sheamus has put on some good matches. If only his finishes weren't so predictable

Personal favorite: Punk/Bryan OTL
I refuse to believe having the World Champion win a majority of matches is something to complain about.
 
#8,112 · (Edited)
Edit: Taker/Angle September 2003- ****3/4

Angle had a fucking fantastic 3-week period with two matches at ****3/4 (the Taker/Angle match and then the Lesnar/Angle ironman).

---

Most overrated WWE match in 2012 (thus far) ?
-I would say Lesnar/HHH or Lesnar/Cena. I do think Lesnar/Cena is great, but it's nowhere near the MOTY in my opinion like a lot of people seem to think... based on this thread anyway. I love the brutality and just how much of a beast Lesnar looks throughout it, but I can't say I don't get bored watching the match at points. It was an incredibly unique match in today's WWE world and I'll give it that much, but I think what it comes down to ultimately is I'm not a fan of the MMA-style like others seem to be.

Lesnar/HHH I have problems with, but I'm not sure how highly it's regarded right now. I'd struggle to go past *** on it personally. I think Seguida (?) summed the match up perfectly and why I don't like it. It's not put on the pedestal of MOTY or among the best of the year (at least not top 5) like Lesnar/Cena is on pretty much everyone's list except mine, which is why I'm not sure which I'd say is more overrated. Lesnar/Cena I'd put considerably above Lesnar/HHH, but the difference between the general opinion of the matches and my own I think is greater for Lesnar/Cena.

Most underrated WWE match in 2012 (thus far) ?

I want to say Punk/Jericho WM, but I have seen plenty hold it in high regard and in a range I'd consider perfect, even though I have seen a few really down on it. I'm not entirely sure on most underrated, but I think Orton/Kane from WM28 deserves more credit than it gets. I thought it was a great, ***1/2 match between the two that I could sit down and watch several times and not get bored. Solid work from the two of them, though I'm not sure how the match is rated amongst the IWC. I know for sure it's under-talked about, which I suppose is fair considering it's on the same card that has Punk/Jericho, Taker/HHH HIAC, and Rock/Cena, not to mention the whole Sheamus/Bryan fiasco that's stench was still in the air as the match was taking place live.

PERSONAL favorite (NOT the best) ?

Honestly, I'd say for this year the best is my personal favorite (Punk vs. Bryan OTL). However, just to throw a match out there nobody would expect, one of my favorite TV matches was Barrett vs. Ryder... I think on SD a few weeks after he returned. The two worked very well together and was a solid *** match in my book. I think the first match with Sheamus on Raw was better and Barrett's best match since his return, but that Ryder match is a really fun watch for me and probably my favorite Barrett match since his return, as well as one of my favorite TV matches of the year (that I remember anyway :p ).
 
#8,113 ·
Overrated : The Rock vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXVIII) : *** 1/2

Underrated : John Cena vs Kane (Ambulance Match ; EC 2012) : *** 1/4

Personal Favorite : Triple H vs Brock Lesnar (Summerslam 2012) : **** 1/4

Cena vs Kane is a GOOD MATCH DAMNIT!
 
#8,114 ·
I think most do rate Rock/Cena at/around ***1/2. I know I do, anyway. I would probably put Rock/Cena as most overrated myself if I saw more people rating it what Rock316AE rated it.
 
#8,117 ·
#8,119 ·
I loved the pace and the back and fourth action. Just an awesome fun 3 minute match I could literally sit back and watch anytime. Barrett's backbreaker and that clothesline at the end on Ryder were both sick. Ryder sold The Souvenir like death, and I loved it. :D

I don't really have anything bad to say about the match, besides the fact... well... it only goes on 3 minutes. :(
 
#8,120 ·
I'd take a look at it because I'm a big Ryder fan, but I can't stand Barrett so... Decisions, decisions.... I'll watch it before class tomorrow ;)

We need more people like us in the GOAT forum, honestly. We need a more knowledgeable and less Rock-Austin draw war based perspective on things. I wanna see greatness judged by in-ring prowess and mic skills (ACTUAL MIC SKILLS) , not on ratings (because it makes absolutely no sense to judge it on that).

On a side note, I love this overrated/underrated game, I'm gonna start asking the question about everything from now on :p
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top