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Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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#1 ·
#7,941 ·
I hope Orton/Del Rio is the opener or at least the second match. I'm only willing to watch this match and couldn't care less for everything else so it would help that I stream that and just forget about the event and do something else rest of the night. That and I also have a project of sorts where I rate Orton's PPV matches and will do a top 50 best matches for him at some point down the line. A submission victory for Del Rio can go to hell, though! Bad enough they did it once, shouldn't happen again.

Orton's 2012 PPV matches:

Royal Rumble Match - ***
vs Kane (Wrestlemania 28) - ***1/4
vs Kane (Extreme Rules) - ***1/2
vs Sheamus vs Alberto Del Rio vs Chris Jericho (Over the Limit) - ****
vs Dolph Ziggler (Night of Champions) - ***1/2

This just made me realize how much of the year he's missed out on. Fuck the WWE for leaving him off the SummerSlam card and jobbing him out like that. Give him another World Title, dammit!
 
#7,942 ·
I dunno if I'd want to see Orton with the title in his current role. The fact that he looks like '06 Orton makes me want to see him kill legends and go heel though. I just haven't been interested in his character for about 2 1/2 to 3 years now. He's been pretty consistent in the ring though.

Oddly enough, I'd say '09, Orton's big character change year, was his worst year for match quality since '03.
 
#7,943 ·
I need to give Orton's 09 matches another watch. Although I'm willing to go as far as 2008 in my yearly journeys (or up to WM25), I might go through 09 just because Orton as top heel is exciting. But that means I'm also gonna have to put up with the horror of guest hosts and Hornswoggle beating Chavo so that's a bit of a hard decision to make. At the same time, some stuff on Smackdown concerning Jericho, Undertaker and so on makes me wanna go that far. For his matches that year, I personally like his series with Cena. SS 09 is the weakest of the bunch but that's down to overbooking. HIAC is one of the better matches in the PG era (for HIAC) and the Ironman match was awesome. I don't remember I Quit too well but the problem I can think of is SuperCena.

But you are onto something with this. Orton's 03 matches show that he's still very green at that point and outside of his first PPV match with HBK, the Survivor Series elimination match and Armageddon with RVD, I don't recall anything memorable involving him. In 04, he improved big time and I can only assume that's what he does in 05 and 06 when he goes to Smackdown. Then when he becomes a permanent main eventer in 07, his ring work is solid and carries on to 08 until his injury. So 09 might be his weakest year in-ring wise. But he was nothing special in 2010 either. Last year, however, his work started picking up big time and for the little amount of time he's been on TV or PPVs, he's still a solid wrestler.

I just wish they'd turn him heel already. It's clear neither he nor WWE give a fuck about him being a face but he still is forced to continue floating around with no real feuds and all this talk of "Sheamus needs a trusted face to work Smackdown with him" needs to stop since WWE treats him like a joke anyways. Turn him into a cocky heel, move him to Raw (as in officially part of Raw) and give him some real feuds to work with.

PS: The Legend Killer haircut is unfortunately gone already. He only kept it for the 12 Rounds filmings. He'll arrive at HIAC tomorrow with his usual super-short haircut. (according to his twitter)
 
#7,944 ·
I need to give Orton's 09 matches another watch. Although I'm willing to go as far as 2008 in my yearly journeys (or up to WM25), I might go through 09 just because Orton as top heel is exciting. But that means I'm also gonna have to put up with the horror of guest hosts and Hornswoggle beating Chavo so that's a bit of a hard decision to make. At the same time, some stuff on Smackdown concerning Jericho, Undertaker and so on makes me wanna go that far. For his matches that year, I personally like his series with Cena. SS 09 is the weakest of the bunch but that's down to overbooking. HIAC is one of the better matches in the PG era (for HIAC) and the Ironman match was awesome. I don't remember I Quit too well but the problem I can think of is SuperCena.

But you are onto something with this. Orton's 03 matches show that he's still very green at that point and outside of his first PPV match with HBK, the Survivor Series elimination match and Armageddon with RVD, I don't recall anything memorable involving him. In 04, he improved big time and I can only assume that's what he does in 05 and 06 when he goes to Smackdown. Then when he becomes a permanent main eventer in 07, his ring work is solid and carries on to 08 until his injury. So 09 might be his weakest year in-ring wise. But he was nothing special in 2010 either. Last year, however, his work started picking up big time and for the little amount of time he's been on TV or PPVs, he's still a solid wrestler.

I just wish they'd turn him heel already. It's clear neither he nor WWE give a fuck about him being a face but he still is forced to continue floating around with no real feuds and all this talk of "Sheamus needs a trusted face to work Smackdown with him" needs to stop since WWE treats him like a joke anyways. Turn him into a cocky heel, move him to Raw (as in officially part of Raw) and give him some real feuds to work with.

PS: The Legend Killer haircut is unfortunately gone already. He only kept it for the 12 Rounds filmings. He'll arrive at HIAC tomorrow with his usual super-short haircut. (according to his twitter)
I'm honestly not too big a fan of the Orton/Cena series in '09, however I liked the '07 SS match and really liked the NWO '08 one. I'd say my favorite Orton matches from '09 would be the six man tag from Backlash and the match against Kofi from TLC. Those Triple and Batista singles matches didn't do too much for me either that year. I still love the Orton/DiBiase match from mid '09 though and there's a solid Orton/MVP one. And looking back, I agree that his 2010 was lackluster, especially when those awful Barrett and Miz matches came. The Sheamus ones weren't all too bad but everything he did that year seemed a bit pointless. The Edge feud, the short Swagger feud and the Sheamus feud didn't really have any meaning to them.

Agreed on hoping he'd turn heel. I'm not sure I'd want him completely insane again though.

But my god, that guy was on fire from late '03 and on. The Foley and Taker feuds really elevated him.

And damn. :(
 
#7,945 ·
Fuck the Orton/Cena series in 09, they have legit some of the worst main event chemistry in the history of the E' . The hell in a cell match is HORRENDOUS, and they competed in the worst ironman match ever by a considerable margin. Let's not forget about the HORRENDOUSLY bad SS 09 match, god that match is SO bad. Is Orton the worst "big match" wrestler of the last decade or so ? Use the HHH and Cena matches for reference. When it comes to actually coming out LAST, he's preeetyyyyy bad despite a few exceptions.
 
#7,946 ·
Fuck the Orton/Cena series in 09, they have legit some of the worst main event chemistry in the history of the E' . The hell in a cell match is HORRENDOUS, and they competed in the worst ironman match ever by a considerable margin. Let's not forget about the HORRENDOUSLY bad SS 09 match, god that match is SO bad. Is Orton the worst "big match" wrestler of the last decade or so ? Use the HHH and Cena matches for reference. When it comes to actually coming out LAST, he's preeetyyyyy bad despite a few exceptions.
I need to see the Hart/HBK Ironman match but Orton/Cena having the "worst" Ironman match is not as bad as you make it sound. Considering that the other matches are HHH/The Rock, Lesnar/Angle and Benoit/HHH, that's nothing to be ashamed of.

And I disagree on them not having chemistry. If anything, I consider Cena/Orton's chemistry to be some of the best in the last decade. SS 07, NWO 08, HIAC 09, BR 09 were all great matches. But that's just my opinion. It sucks that WWE has removed almost everything from youtube. I could do with giving some of the 2009-2010 PPV matches a watch. Instead I can find them in their entirely mostly from myspace uploads and obscure sites.
 
#7,948 ·
I need to see the Hart/HBK Ironman match but Orton/Cena having the "worst" Ironman match is not as bad as you make it sound. Considering that the other matches are HHH/The Rock, Lesnar/Angle and Benoit/HHH, that's nothing to be ashamed of.

And I disagree on them not having chemistry. If anything, I consider Cena/Orton's chemistry to be some of the best in the last decade. SS 07, NWO 08, HIAC 09, BR 09 were all great matches. But that's just my opinion. It sucks that WWE has removed almost everything from youtube. I could do with giving some of the 2009-2010 PPV matches a watch. Instead I can find them in their entirely mostly from myspace uploads and obscure sites.
I would invest in the PPV matches of '09-'10 DVD, imo. It's worth the cheap price for Mysterio/Jericho from GAB, HBK/Taker from 26 and Edge/Cena from Backlash alone. But there's tons of other good stuff on there too.
 
#7,949 ·
Fuck the Orton/Cena series in 09, they have legit some of the worst main event chemistry in the history of the E' . The hell in a cell match is HORRENDOUS, and they competed in the worst ironman match ever by a considerable margin. Let's not forget about the HORRENDOUSLY bad SS 09 match, god that match is SO bad. Is Orton the worst "big match" wrestler of the last decade or so ? Use the HHH and Cena matches for reference. When it comes to actually coming out LAST, he's preeetyyyyy bad despite a few exceptions.
Not really sure what exact definition of 'big match' is meant, but Orton is definitely better than Batista, HHH, Angle and Edge. I'd probably put him above Jericho too, and for the 2000s I'd have him over Michaels. Shawn's 2000s is not holding up for me at all.
 
#7,950 ·
Summerslam '07 - Great.
Unforgiven '07 - crap. only there to advance the storyline.
No Way Out '08 - Great.
Summerslam '09 - blah. those damn 5 false finishes.
Breaking Point - GREAT. my personal favorite.
Hell in a Cell '09 - decent. I only saw it once and that's where my memory is at.
Bragging Rights '09 - Fun & solid. RANDY TRIED TO BLOW JOHN-BOY UP

So yeah. Maybe HIAC might join in whenever I borrow that from my brother to give it another go around. I hated the DX/Legacy HIAC. So maybe I'll go in and think the same with Cena/Orton.

Oh and Orton does not need another championship run. Have him feel fresh again and then we'll talk. So many people want to claim Cena is dull yet he's actually managed to keep the same character worth while. Orton can't say that ever since 2010 came along. Face Orton really can only last so long.
 
#7,951 ·
Tonight, they need to have Ryback basically stalking Punk around the cell with Punk running away being the chicken-shit heel for as long as he can. When Ryback finally gets hold of him, just have him destroy Punk for a good solid 10 to 15 minutes. Then, as victory looks certain have someone come out and screw Ryback over causing Punk to crawl away with the belt. Anything remotely resembling Taker/HBK from 1997 is fine with me.
 
#7,952 ·
I was putting together a top 10 HIAC matches for a different website and decided to check out what other places thought, and came across this brilliance from a couple of years ago via our friends at bleacher:

1. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels
2. 6-Man
5. Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels
6. Undertaker & Steve Austin vs. Mankind & Kane
10. DX vs. Big Show & McMahons

Taker/Orton, Taker/Lesnar & Batista/Triple H were all outside the top 10. :lmao

And just to put the icing on the cake, the first two comments:
Triple H vs. HBK was a AWESOME match
ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! great work Joe and can't argue with this list at all.
 
#7,953 ·
Tonight, they need to have Ryback basically stalking Punk around the cell with Punk running away being the chicken-shit heel for as long as he can. When Ryback finally gets hold of him, just have him destroy Punk for a good solid 10 to 15 minutes. Then, as victory looks certain have someone come out and screw Ryback over causing Punk to crawl away with the belt. Anything remotely resembling Taker/HBK from 1997 is fine with me.
Oh god, i want Ryback to beat the shit out of Punk and then the DEBUT OF RYBACKS BROTHER. The brother had an eating disorder when they were kids which is why Ryback is mentally fucked and all he can say is "feed me more" the brother hits Ryback with Shell Shocked and puts Puink on top for the win.

Book it WWE.(Y)
 
#7,954 ·
I was putting together a top 10 HIAC matches for a different website and decided to check out what other places thought, and came across this brilliance from a couple of years ago via our friends at bleacher:

1. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels
2. 6-Man
5. Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels
6. Undertaker & Steve Austin vs. Mankind & Kane
10. DX vs. Big Show & McMahons

Taker/Orton, Taker/Lesnar & Batista/Triple H were all outside the top 10. :lmao

And just to put the icing on the cake, the first two comments:
Real embarrassment there is Undertaker vs Shawn being #3.
 
#7,958 ·
Tonight, they need to have Ryback basically stalking Punk around the cell with Punk running away being the chicken-shit heel for as long as he can. When Ryback finally gets hold of him, just have him destroy Punk for a good solid 10 to 15 minutes. Then, as victory looks certain have someone come out and screw Ryback over causing Punk to crawl away with the belt. Anything remotely resembling Taker/HBK from 1997 is fine with me.
They should have PAST RYBACK debut. He was supposed to be from the future anyway so we can turn this into some Looper shit.
 
#7,959 ·
I would invest in the PPV matches of '09-'10 DVD, imo. It's worth the cheap price for Mysterio/Jericho from GAB, HBK/Taker from 26 and Edge/Cena from Backlash alone. But there's tons of other good stuff on there too.
I'm a cheap fuck, so don't expect me to buy anything. :p And besides, where can I get these DVDs out here in Sweden outside of the obvious online option? Plus if I were to buy any of them, I'd go for the classic stuff first.

I was putting together a top 10 HIAC matches for a different website and decided to check out what other places thought, and came across this brilliance from a couple of years ago via our friends at bleacher:

1. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels
2. 6-Man
5. Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels
6. Undertaker & Steve Austin vs. Mankind & Kane
10. DX vs. Big Show & McMahons

Taker/Orton, Taker/Lesnar & Batista/Triple H were all outside the top 10. :lmao

And just to put the icing on the cake, the first two comments:
Credibility is automatically lost with what stands at #1. That's by far the worst cell match I've ever seen and the build-up to it was one of the worst ever.

I don't think anything has ever been more forced than the shitty HHH/HBK feud after Backlash 04. They cost each other title opportunities then they have them brawl all over the arena, trying their absolute hardest to make it OMGZSOFUCKINEPIC and it fails hard. "BAW GAWD THEY'RE FIGHTING THROUGH THE CROWD!!!!" and zero fucks given! Then their cell match got almost 50 minutes and ended up being the most boring piece of garbage I've had the misfortune of watching. You want an example of what The Rock/Austin would be like if the feud sucked? This shows it perfectly.
 
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