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Old 07-07-2012, 11:02 PM   #3681 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

HHH 2003 PPV:

RR 03 vs Scott Steiner : DUD
NWO 03 vs Scott Steiner : 1/2*
WM 19 vs Booker T : ***1/2
JD 03 vs Kevin Nash : 3/4*
BB 03 vs Kevin Nash : : **1/2
Summerslam 03 Elimination Chamber : ***
Unforgiven 03 vs Goldberg : **
Survivor Series 03 vs Goldberg : *3/4
ARM 03 vs Goldberg vs Kane : **1/4

Absolutely horrible year. First off I just watched the HHH/Nash JD match when I made my post on the 2001/2002 PPV matches and wish I didn't waste the time. Steiner/HHH RR is one of the worst matches ever imo, and the NWO match isn't far from being up there itself. The Booker T WM match was a great match, but it was by far HHH's best match, and that's saying something when it 2000 this level of match could be considered disappointing for HHH. The Nash HIAC is a very bad HIAC match, but it's better than expected in terms of it being HHH/Nash. The SS EC is decent enough and a really fun match if you love seeing Goldberg dominate, but Goldberg losing to a sledgehammer shot is weak. Goldberg/HHH Unforgiven is poor, but alright considering it's Goldberg and an "at his worst" HHH. The SS match is a step down for me as a whole. The triple threat Armageddon match was decent enough. Never seen the BL match and honestly, not sure I want to.

Honestly HHH in 2003 might be the worst year for a main eventer in PPVs. Consistently poor matches to the point where a **1/2 star match looks good. I can't say there was anything good about HHH in 2003. Nothing I could personally care about anyway. His mic work was bland and repetitive, his dominance of Raw for the last 7 months of the year made Raw near unwatchable with the state he was in, and to top it all off he was not the performer he once was. He did have a ****+ match with HBK on Raw in December, but that's all I can think of. This year to find something good of HHH is like finding hay in a needle stack.

He never reached the level he was at in 2000-2001 again imo, but 2004 is the closest we got besides late 2005-early 2006 for promo work/character imo. Hell, I'll put in my 2004 and 2005 ratings right now for HHH:

RR vs. HBK (LMS)- ***3/4
WM vs. Benoit vs. HBK- ****1/2
BL vs. Benoit vs. HBK- ****1/4
BB vs. HBK (HIAC)- ***1/2
Vengeance vs. Benoit- ***1/4
SS vs. Eugene- ***3/4
Unforgiven vs. Orton- **1/2
TT vs. HBK- **
SVS vs. Team Orton- ***

A consistently very good year for PPV matches for HHH. The LMS match was great and honestly I still remember as a kid watching live during the end of the match cheering HBK on to get up before the 10 count... and he did not. The Triple Threat WM20 match is the best triple threat of all time and one of the best WM main events ever. I'm pretty sure it's number 3 on my list. The Backlash match was almost just as good. The BB HIAC with HBK was great, though long and can get tedious to watch. Overall disappointing considering it's the end of the feud between the two, but still a very good match. The vengeance Benoit match was a good sound match, but forgettable imo. Actually I do need to re-watch it myself, but I remember having it at this rating from the last time I watched it a few years ago. The Eugene match is great fun. Flair was awesome in it. It was also nice to see HHH not the main event of the show for the first time in years. The Orton Unforgiven match is actually one of HHH and Orton's better matches in the grand scheme of things imo. The Taboo Tuesday HBK match was alright, and the Team Orton/Team HHH match was good, and I do find it fun to watch as I do most SVS elimination matches. Orton getting the win was a good way to have Orton get one-up on HHH, without taking the title before Mania (which I guess was the plan at that point in time).

2004 was a very good year for HHH. His feud and brawls with HBK was awesome, as well as him never being able to overcome Benoit (and Benjamin for a few weeks). I thought he was doing very well for most of 2004, but during his World Title reign it felt like old 2003 HHH for some reason tbh that I was bored by back then. It didn't help that the feud with Orton felt like it hit a giant road block after HHH won the title, which was his main rival during that run, but overall it just felt like the same old WHC Champion HHH shtick that we dealt with pretty much all of 2003. I guess there's a reason I found HHH a lot mroe entertaining from March until September, but meh. Still though it was overall a good year for HHH.

2005:
RR vs. Orton- ***
WM vs. Batista- **
BL vs. Batista- **1/2
Vengeance vs. Batista (HIAC)- ****1/2
TT vs. Flair (cage)- ****
SVS vs. Flair (LMS)- ***1/2

The Orton rumble match had the Orton concussion angle thrown into it, which actually I think helped the match and kept it interesting. HHH ultimately conquering Orton because of it was fine, but Orton was left reeling from it until he turned heel again and faced Taker at WM. The Batista feud was awesome leading up to Mania, but the match wasn't very good. The feud was still great though throughout. The BL match was better, and then the cell match was a classic. Ultimately it was a big put over by HHH for Batista and made Batista the number 1 guy in the company for the better portion of 2005. The Flair cage match was great, and the LMS was good and it was cool to see HHH's sadistic side throughout his feud with Flair again. Let me just say HHH returning in 2005-turning face in 2006 is probably my favorite HHH behind his 2000-2001 run. His promos during the time were great, and I loved seeing him ride solo. Also in the ring he was on fire. I'll actually go through his heel run 06 PPV matches as well just to continue on this:

HHH 2006 PPV matches (heel):

NYR vs. Show- ***1/4
RR match- ***1/2
WM vs. Cena- ***
BL vs. Edge vs. Cena- ****

Overall he was having great matches during his late 05-early 06 heel run. His match against Show with the broken hand dynamic made the match interesting and allowed HHH to beat Show without Show losing face. The RR match, which HHH was in pretty much the whole match was strong throughout. The WM Cena match wasn't all that great imo, but not bad either. Perhaps disappointing for a WM ME, but still a decent match made better by the crowd. The BL triple threat was awesome, and I LOVED the build up to it. I've said it before but the one-liners from HHH during this feud were hilarious, and was a nice way to ease HHH into his face run. This whole build and match all just went damn near perfectly. Besides the segments the handicap match and each of them getting pinfall/submission victories over the other (HHH over Cena, Cena over Edge, and Edge over HHH) was great. The 4 week 3-way feud is probably one of my favorite triple threat builds ups ever, maybe even my favorite.

Okay, I'm gonna end this post. I just wanted to post up 2003, then I said I would do 2004, and halfway through writing the ratings for that I said I'd do 2005 as well since I remember that year's matches pretty well. Then I went into 06 since they go hand-in-hand with HHH in late 2005 which I loved. So yeah, I'll start following along with K1ngofK1ngs again once he catches up.
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:04 AM   #3682 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I agree that the Rock/Cena DVD set could suck(mainly because of Cena to me) but I liked pretty much all of The Rock's promos during the WM 27 and 28 buildups, so Im all in for that and I love a good documentary as well(wasnt big on the Once In A Lifetime special though.)

I still think a Rock/Austin or Rock/HHH set would make more sense. If they had to do one for Cena, then Cena/Orton is the only one they could do. HBK/Undertaker could be a good one. HBK/HHH would be great to document both their team ups and their 2 year feud. I would've loved to see an Angle/Austin or even an Angle/Benoit DVD set... man that would've been over 4-5 disc full of great fucking matches.
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:19 AM   #3683 (permalink)
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I am telling the absolute honest truth when I say I would rather buy a WWE release of "The Best of Viscera" than 3 discs of Cena v Rock. The feud sucked.
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:48 AM   #3684 (permalink)
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I'm a big fan of that Cell match between Nash and Hunter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah1993 View Post
I'm a bigger Hunter fan than a lot of others I know, but I wouldn't say the people that give him flack are a select minority. I mean I myself don't even think he's a great worker, but I'm not one who goes out of my way to point out his flaws, say he's not that good and that I could name many, many better (even though I could). That would be Kurt Angle.

I like Kurt Angle from 2000 - 2003. That Angle of 2000 was brilliant. He was having good matches consistent until 2003. From 2004 onwards, except those nights against 'Taker and Michaels, yeah--you know the rest.
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:15 AM   #3685 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Triple H PPV Match Ratings : 2004-2006 Pre DX

Before I get into these ratings, let me go ahead and say this : You can call me biased because he's my all time favourite, but from the time that Hunter woke the fuck up against Shawn in their DEC 2003 encounter, Hunter was the best in the world all the way until the DX reunion in 2006 when he just decided not to give a single fuck anymore. From Royal Rumble 2004 to Backlash 2006, Hunter wrestled in 20 matches (21 technically but one was a rumble ). I truly do believe in my heart (and most people probably don't realize that with the exception of a few matches that you disagree with me on, you do as well) , that this was the most CONSISTENT 2 and a half years of Hunter's career character wise. Sure, he had his BEST matches in the year 2000, but out of the 20 matches in this time period, I believe that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is ***+, one of the most unprecedented PPV match streaks in history. What's really scary about this is that nobody talks about it to this day.

2004

RR 04 vs Shawn Michaels : *** 3/4
WM XX vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit : *****
BL 04 vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit : **** 1/2
BB 04 vs Shawn Michaels : ****
Ven 04 vs Chris Benot : *** 3/4
SS 04 vs Eugene : *** 3/4
Unf 04 vs Randy Orton : ***
TT 04 vs Shawn Michaels : *** 3/4
SS 04 Elimination Tag : ****

Watched the Royal Rumble match for the first time in my life yesterday and I thought it rocked. It had the right mix of intensity and actual technical wrestling to satisfy my thirst. Not even close to being Hunter's best LMS match, but definitely one of the better matches he has ever had with Shawn. The last 5 minutes of this match fucking rocked. The finishers, the blood. This match was EXCITING, but the feeling out process lasted too long for me to give it the full 4.

The Triple Threat series with Shawn and Benoit is simply amazing, and produced 2 all-time classics. The Wrestlemania encounter is IMO the greatest triple threat ever, while the Backlash match is the second greatest triple threat of all time IMO. Everything in the Mania match clicked, the atmosphere was off the charts, the story being told was fantastic, all the big spots were there and best of all it stayed consistent the entire time. One of those matches where everything clicks.. Period. The Backlash match follows a more traditional triple threat formula as it features more of a revolving door of one on one matches that kick ass as well, but it just dosen't have that FLASH of the original IMO, it just feels like something is missing and I'm not sure what.

Everybody knows how I feel about the HIAC with Shawn, as I've reviewed it about 85348534 times now. It's long yes, but I loved the brutality and the storytelling, as well as the rollercoaster pace from fast to slow to fast. It's a thrill ride, and I can understand why some people wouldn't like the whole "finisher, lie around, finisher" routine, but it just built atmosphere for me. Love that fucking match to pieces.

Vengeance match with Benoit was pretty fucking awesome as well. Wouldn't go the whole four because they decided to go with Eugene interfering at the end of the match, which completely threw off the fantastic story these two were telling in the ring up until the climax of the match. Not up to the standards of their No Mercy match of course, but all of the fantastic moves and holds coupled with a simple story makes this match awesome to me.

The match with Eugene is actually one of Hunter's best heel performances. It isn't his best match in terms of snowflakes, but his devious performance is actually astounding, and if you get over the sheer stupidity of the storyline (HHH fighting a retarded guy) , you'll enjoy the match a whole lot more. It's Hunter at his best, as he knows his opponent is inferior to him in intelligence, so he just punks Eugene out for the entire duration of the match. It's heel 101, and anybody aspiring to be a heel in professional wrestling should watch this match. One of Hunter's all time great performances.

A match that probably alot of people will disagree with me on is the UNF 04 match against Randy Orton. I personally thought this was a well, slow paced match with some good holds and some good heel offense by HHH. What holds this match back for me would be Orton's vanilla as fuck face offense consisting of chinlocks and other rest holds. This match still fucking rocks because of Hunter's performance as the man who taught Orton everything he knows, but little does he know that Orton has more than what HHH bargained for. Hunter was such a smug motherfucker in this era.

The Taboo Tuesday match with Shawn is ANOTHER controversial match, and I've already explained why I love it in detail: Triple H's offense is methodical as fuck and I love it, while Shawn's facial expressions in the midst of selling his knee injury is boss. I know it seems like Shawn gets stronger with every manuever that HHH pulls on his knee, but that's what I love about this match ; The whole Adrenaline rush that leads Shawn to have that one big gasp of offense, only for him to be screwed out of the title picture once again. It's DEVIOUS storytelling in this one, and a fine chapter to add to the HBK-HHH rivalry.

The Survivor Series match is one of my favourite SS tags of all time (second, behind next years main event ) as we get one of Orton's best face performances, as well as a few different dynamics thrown into the mix. Edge, Benoit, Jericho, and Hunter are great as always, but there are more dynamics added to the match as we get a crazed lunatic like Snitsky into the mix with an underdog like Maven. The action in this match as fantastic, and I personally love the stipulation of the match as this is one of my favourite all time eras in wrestling. Holds alot of personal weight for me, and is one of my favourites.

THIS...Is potentially Hunter's best year PPV wise. For me, it comes down to 2000, 2004, and 2005 (which we'll get to tomorrow, because I'm tired as fuck ). 2004 never had the FIVE ****1/4+ matches that 2000 had, but 2000 also had a few matches from Hunter that were under ***. I'll make up my mind eventually, but for now let's say that 2000 is better simply because it has more all time classics, though 2004 is definitely more consistent.

I'm honestly too lazy...To be continued
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:56 AM   #3686 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by K1ngOfK1ngs View Post
Triple H PPV Match Ratings : 2004-2006 Pre DX

Before I get into these ratings, let me go ahead and say this : You can call me biased because he's my all time favourite, but from the time that Hunter woke the fuck up against Shawn in their DEC 2003 encounter, Hunter was the best in the world all the way until the DX reunion in 2006 when he just decided not to give a single fuck anymore. From Royal Rumble 2004 to Backlash 2006, Hunter wrestled in 20 matches (21 technically but one was a rumble ). I truly do believe in my heart (and most people probably don't realize that with the exception of a few matches that you disagree with me on, you do as well) , that this was the most CONSISTENT 2 and a half years of Hunter's career character wise. Sure, he had his BEST matches in the year 2000, but out of the 20 matches in this time period, I believe that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is ***+, one of the most unprecedented PPV match streaks in history. What's really scary about this is that nobody talks about it to this day.

2004

RR 04 vs Shawn Michaels : *** 3/4
WM XX vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit : *****
BL 04 vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit : **** 1/2
BB 04 vs Shawn Michaels : ****
Ven 04 vs Chris Benot : *** 3/4
SS 04 vs Eugene : *** 3/4
Unf 04 vs Randy Orton : ***
TT 04 vs Shawn Michaels : *** 3/4
SS 04 Elimination Tag : ****

Watched the Royal Rumble match for the first time in my life yesterday and I thought it rocked. It had the right mix of intensity and actual technical wrestling to satisfy my thirst. Not even close to being Hunter's best LMS match, but definitely one of the better matches he has ever had with Shawn. The last 5 minutes of this match fucking rocked. The finishers, the blood. This match was EXCITING, but the feeling out process lasted too long for me to give it the full 4.

The Triple Threat series with Shawn and Benoit is simply amazing, and produced 2 all-time classics. The Wrestlemania encounter is IMO the greatest triple threat ever, while the Backlash match is the second greatest triple threat of all time IMO. Everything in the Mania match clicked, the atmosphere was off the charts, the story being told was fantastic, all the big spots were there and best of all it stayed consistent the entire time. One of those matches where everything clicks.. Period. The Backlash match follows a more traditional triple threat formula as it features more of a revolving door of one on one matches that kick ass as well, but it just dosen't have that FLASH of the original IMO, it just feels like something is missing and I'm not sure what.

Everybody knows how I feel about the HIAC with Shawn, as I've reviewed it about 85348534 times now. It's long yes, but I loved the brutality and the storytelling, as well as the rollercoaster pace from fast to slow to fast. It's a thrill ride, and I can understand why some people wouldn't like the whole "finisher, lie around, finisher" routine, but it just built atmosphere for me. Love that fucking match to pieces.

Vengeance match with Benoit was pretty fucking awesome as well. Wouldn't go the whole four because they decided to go with Eugene interfering at the end of the match, which completely threw off the fantastic story these two were telling in the ring up until the climax of the match. Not up to the standards of their No Mercy match of course, but all of the fantastic moves and holds coupled with a simple story makes this match awesome to me.

The match with Eugene is actually one of Hunter's best heel performances. It isn't his best match in terms of snowflakes, but his devious performance is actually astounding, and if you get over the sheer stupidity of the storyline (HHH fighting a retarded guy) , you'll enjoy the match a whole lot more. It's Hunter at his best, as he knows his opponent is inferior to him in intelligence, so he just punks Eugene out for the entire duration of the match. It's heel 101, and anybody aspiring to be a heel in professional wrestling should watch this match. One of Hunter's all time great performances.

A match that probably alot of people will disagree with me on is the UNF 04 match against Randy Orton. I personally thought this was a well, slow paced match with some good holds and some good heel offense by HHH. What holds this match back for me would be Orton's vanilla as fuck face offense consisting of chinlocks and other rest holds. This match still fucking rocks because of Hunter's performance as the man who taught Orton everything he knows, but little does he know that Orton has more than what HHH bargained for. Hunter was such a smug motherfucker in this era.

The Taboo Tuesday match with Shawn is ANOTHER controversial match, and I've already explained why I love it in detail: Triple H's offense is methodical as fuck and I love it, while Shawn's facial expressions in the midst of selling his knee injury is boss. I know it seems like Shawn gets stronger with every manuever that HHH pulls on his knee, but that's what I love about this match ; The whole Adrenaline rush that leads Shawn to have that one big gasp of offense, only for him to be screwed out of the title picture once again. It's DEVIOUS storytelling in this one, and a fine chapter to add to the HBK-HHH rivalry.

The Survivor Series match is one of my favourite SS tags of all time (second, behind next years main event ) as we get one of Orton's best face performances, as well as a few different dynamics thrown into the mix. Edge, Benoit, Jericho, and Hunter are great as always, but there are more dynamics added to the match as we get a crazed lunatic like Snitsky into the mix with an underdog like Maven. The action in this match as fantastic, and I personally love the stipulation of the match as this is one of my favourite all time eras in wrestling. Holds alot of personal weight for me, and is one of my favourites.

THIS...Is potentially Hunter's best year PPV wise. For me, it comes down to 2000, 2004, and 2005 (which we'll get to tomorrow, because I'm tired as fuck ). 2004 never had the FIVE ****1/4+ matches that 2000 had, but 2000 also had a few matches from Hunter that were under ***. I'll make up my mind eventually, but for now let's say that 2000 is better simply because it has more all time classics, though 2004 is definitely more consistent.

I'm honestly too lazy...To be continued
Agree with most EXCEPT for the Unforgiven match. I really dislike this match BUT to each his own.


A lot of people remember his RAW classic with HBK. However, he had another GREAT match three weeks after Survivor Series with Edge and Benoit. Been a while since I watched but it really a gem.
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Old 07-08-2012, 03:23 AM   #3687 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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That's where we differ. I'm much more of a match guy and considering I'm not overly big on either guy, I just can't get into it.
agree.

can't even see myself watching it to be honest, let alone buying it.
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Old 07-08-2012, 03:29 AM   #3688 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

In response to K1ngofK1ngs (don't want to quote the whole post):

I would definitely put 2004 as HHH's second best year for matches. Pound for pound I'd say 2000 was comfortably better than 2004. 2000 had half a year of consistent classics/borderline classics with the last half a year ranging from good-great-classic matches, while 2004 had a few blemishes for me, with only one classic in the WM triple threat (and a borderline in the BL triple threat).

As for the character comment, I did touch on this in my last post, but while I wouldn't agree with HHH from 04-06 being his best 2 and a half years, I'd agree that late 2005-early 06 is his best... hell I'd even say it goes back to when his feud with Batista started. That year was his best from a character perspective, and I'd also say from a mic work perspective.

But that being said, seeing your great write-ups for the year and seeing the ratings makes me want to do this for Undertaker. Now granted, I wouldn't want to start in 1990... I'm scared to see how many Taker matches I'd give under 2 stars. I'd probably start with the year I started watching WWE, 1998, and go from there. Hell, maybe I'll start with 1997. Don't know, but I'll actually watch these Taker matches right before I do the review, like what you've been doing for HHH K1ngofK1ngs (which I've not been doing )
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Old 07-08-2012, 04:22 AM   #3689 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor King View Post

I like Kurt Angle from 2000 - 2003. That Angle of 2000 was brilliant. He was having good matches consistent until 2003. From 2004 onwards, except those nights against 'Taker and Michaels, yeah--you know the rest.
I think I've said this already, but I've been watching some 00-02 Angle recently, and I've liked some of it, but there's a lot of it that just isn't for me. Still, he looked like a guy who just wasn't experienced enough, and that he'd piece things more together in the future. Some people say he DID get better later on, but that just really isn't for me in the slightest. Unfortunately for me 00-01 was the peak of his career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolquip View Post
A lot of people remember his RAW classic with HBK. However, he had another GREAT match three weeks after Survivor Series with Edge and Benoit. Been a while since I watched but it really a gem.
You mean the one with

Spoiler for finish who hasn't seen it:
the pin/tap where the Title was vacated?


if so, yeah, that match is really fun.
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Old 07-08-2012, 07:30 AM   #3690 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Really enjoying the reviews of the HHH matches, so I went ahead and watched Unforgiven 04 vs Orton. Really slow paced match which I got into quite easily. HHH's legwork of Orton was pretty basic but effective, Orton sold it quite well. When Evolution came in it got quite fun and made Orton look strong in defeat. Decent ending with the Pedigree on the chair. Pretty solid match, not a star making performance that it should of been though, I think this match should of probably been a gimmick match. ***1/4
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