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Old 07-06-2012, 09:05 PM   #3651 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Choke2Death View Post
It is definitely the best of their match series I've seen. Hell in a Cell was also decent as is Wrestlemania 24 if you count that.

Been wanting to check out their Ironman match for a while, it's always in the suggest box on YouTube but I just go for something else. And I watched SummerSlam 2009 the other day and it's not 1 star worthy like Brye thinks, but 2 stars IMO. Overbooked to hell with all the restarts but decent enough action while it goes on.
Their Iron man match was OK. It was overbooked with spots, but I didn't really mind that. Ortons acting towards the end was hilarious.
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Old 07-06-2012, 10:22 PM   #3652 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Triple H PPV Match Ratings : 2002

NWO 02 vs Kurt Angle- : *** 1/4
WM 18 vs Chris Jericho : ****
Backlash 02 vs Hulk Hogan : * 3/4
JD 02 vs Chris Jericho : *** 3/4
KOTR 02 vs Undertaker : * 3/4
Insurrexion 02 vs Undertaker- : *** 1/4
Global Warning vs Lesnar vs The Rock- : *** 1/4
Summerslam 02 vs Shawn Michaels : *****
Unforgiven 02 vs Rob Van Dam : ****
No Mercy 02 vs Kane : ** 3/4
Survivor Series 02 Elimination Chamber : **** 1/2
Armageddon 02 vs Shawn Michaels : *** 3/4

Fantastic babyface performance at NWO vs Angle. With Stephanie as the referee, no matter how bad the whole marriage/pregnancy angle was, Hunter did a great job at playing the "me against the world" type character. The fast counts at the beginning of the match added a nice touch, and when Stephanie was taken out of the equation it actually shocked me that Kurt won. Kurt, however was worse than he was in the previous PPV matches against Hunter, going from some good wrestling to super-saiyan Kurt in a matter of seconds. All of that aside, this was a great match with some great face storytelling by Hunter.

The Wrestlemania XVIII match against Jericho is one of the most underrated matches of all time. It gets a bad rep because what, the crowd was spent ? To the people who say that, FUCK YOU. This was the MOTN by far in my books, as the psychology is rock solid, the storytelling is fantastic, and if you wanna talk about the crowd being into it, the pop that Hunter receives when he wins is actually out of this world. We have Jericho going after the injured Quad/leg of Hunter and basically tearing him apart while his ex Stephanie is in his corner. It was a true Wrestlemania moment to see Hunter overcome the odds and get back at both Jericho and Stephanie. It just REALLY pisses me off to see people hate on this match because it followed Rock-Hogan. Hunter and Jericho both brought it 100 percent, and it's the best match these two ever had together besides the amazing Fully Loaded match. The ending of the match and subsequent celebration still gives me chills. I've seen people give this match ** 1/4, and to those people I say this ; Atmosphere is good and adds to a match, but it isn't everything. Fuck you :P .

The Backlash match with Hogan is WAAAYYY too long at 22 minutes. Hunter has a pretty well mapped out plan against Hogan to attack the bad knee, but the match is so drawn out and boring that I never cared in the least, and that's saying something as I'm a big Hogan fan as well. Who had the brilliant idea for these two guys to go 22 minutes ? One of Hunter's worst PPV encounters, and it's weird because the match itself isn't all that terrible, but it might be the most boring HHH matches that I've ever seen for the first 18 minutes of the match . Then a whole bunch of crazy shit happens. At the end of the day, this match has a few bright spots but is just mainly BAD.

Already reviewed the HIAC match with Jericho in depth for my Cell project but I'll basically come out and say it like this ; A fantasticly entertaining match with some great spots and some good in ring work, but this shouldn't have been in the cell and the storytelling wasn't all that great. Still, a very very good match between these two but I'll take the Wrestlemania match over this one. Wanna know more, just look at my in depth review

The KOTR and INSX matches with Undertaker are two completely different matches on the star scale. The KOTR match is a sloppy encounter with no coherence whatsoever. I actually think I could be overrating it because I love Taker and Hunter so much, but what the fuck do I know ? One of the worst PPV matches I've seen out of Hunter as he was just OFF here. Just a poor excuse for a PPV main event, THEY FUCKED UP A ROLL UP! The INSX match is a surprising gem, as it's a back and forth type match with both guys hitting the big moves on one another until Taker finally gives and loses clean to Hunter for I think the only time in WWF/WWE history. The last 5-6 minutes are actually fucking awesome and I encourage any fan of the Taker-HHH series to see it, as it's how a face Hunter vs heel Taker should work. Intense.

The Global Warning triple threat was entertaining as hell, what can I really say about it ? It had some good sequences, some typical Rock bullshit, and Lesnar looked like a damn monster out there. Hunter was really only there to be destroyed and do the job, but he played his role perfectly and neither man really looked weak at the end of this one. A forgotten great match with a great finishing sequence. All 3 men were actually pretty good and entertaining.

The Summerslam match with Michaels is one of the greatest matches of all time in my book. The storytelling is some of the best I've ever seen in my entire life with Hunter just unloading on Shawn's back until Shawn wakes up and remembers just who in the hell he really is and proceeds to just TAKE it to Triple H. I still shake while watching this very emotional match, and Michaels selling and bumping is better than ever, even after being out of the ring for 4 years. Hunter does a brilliant job of playing up that this is his ring now, and that his ring has no place for Shawn Michaels anymore. It's a new game (no pun intended) , and Hunter wants to prove the Shawn that he's the man now. The commentary is amazing with the atmosphere being breathtaking. I can't rate this as anything less than perfect as the psychology was perfect, the storytelling was perfect, the atmosphere was perfect, and the intensity and brutality of this match was PERFECT. Amazing match that I could watch over and over again. The showstopper lives!

I went in depth about the RVD match at Unforgiven before, and how it's one of the most underrated HHH matches of all time. Basically, I love how the styles clash between RVD's high flying and The Game's cerebral assassin like tactics that he pulls on RVD. The first half of the match is all psychology, with RVD getting inside the Game's head, and the second half is The game grounding RVD and plugging him into HIS formula. I honestly think that Brett Mix is the only other person to give this four stars besides me, but I think this match deserves it.

The No Mercy match with Kane isn't fantastic, but it's still an above average encounter between two workers with less than great chemistry in the ring together. This starts off all over the place and turns into an overbooked piece of madness with Hunter bumping around and taking some pretty sick spots through the announce table and all over the ring for Kane. Yes, I know the storyline was horrendous, but that doesn't take away from this pretty good contest. Definitely not up to HHH standards, but better than alot of matches he would have in the following year.

The inaugural Elimination Chamber was IMO the second best chamber of all time. What this match had going for it was the intensity that takes place in the match, the excitement, and definitely the drama. Going into this match nobody had a clue who was going to win, which compared to this years elimination chambers, is something we can't say far too often. The commentators made it seem like these men were gladiators going to do battle. RVD was a great first spot monkey in the EC, Kane was a great monster that needed teaming up on to be eliminated, Booker and Jericho did a fantastic job of being workers in this match, whilst Hunter and Shawn stole the show once again. The ending minutes are some of the most intense minutes I've seen in a wrestling match, with the pop Shawn receives from the MSG crowd at the ending being one of the loudest I've ever heard. Doesn't hold up well for alot of people after they know who the victor already is, but this is a classic in my book, and once again, the second best EC ever.

The Armageddon match is the match that I think a majority of people will disagree with me on. I can understand why people would hate this match as the psychology is incoherent and kind of fucked, but that's why I never gave it the full four. I LOVE this match and it's a personal favourite of mine as we get two of my all time favourite workers and put them in a match together for that long, add in tons of intensity and a damn good pace (better paced than the cell match IMO), and you have all the makings of a fantastic contest. You can argue that the last fall is kind of fucked, but I loved every second of this and I can watch it over and over again. I just love these Hunter 3SOH matches for some reason, although I heard the one with Orton is pretty bad, but I guess I'll just have to see.

Gonna have most or all of 03 watched tonight, going to try to finish the Goldberg series as quick as possible, not excited at all. This is what I've gathered so far ; The first Steiner match is hilariously awful but entertaining, the No Way Out match is hilariously awful but actually not that bad (if that makes sense), Booker-Hunter is ANOTHER underrated WM match from HHH, Backlash tag is good, Nash series is MEH, and yeah that's all I have about now :P Off to watch SS 03, UNF 03, SSeries 03, and ARM 03.

PS: Cena-Orton Ironman is **3/4 where I sit. Would have made a good LMS with all the ridiculous shit, but not an Ironman match. The worst of the 7 WWE ironman matches in my book. It's a good watch and certainly not boring, but only watch it once. Actually, I'm glad we never got a Cena-Orton LMS match because that means we wouldn't have gotten the first HHH-Orton LMS match that was fucking awesome
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:40 PM   #3653 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I don't think I've seen Jericho/Trips from WM X-8 in years. I think I had it around *** last time I checked but it was ages ago.

I remember those Hogan and Taker matches being disappointing.

Trips/RVD and Trips/HBK from Summerslam.
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:59 PM   #3654 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

(Following with K1ngofK1ngs)
HHH 2001 PPV:
vs. Angle RR- ***3/4
vs. Austin NWO- ****1/4
vs. Taker WM17- ****
w/Austin vs. Taker/Kane BL- ***1/2
vs. Kane JD- **1/2

Not quite as impressive for me as even the last 5 months of his 01 run, but still a nice string of matches up until the Kane JD match, which was okay, but nothing I'd remember to watch again in the near future. I actually haven't seen the BL match in forever so I do need to give it a re-watch, but I believe I had it at that rating (***1/2).

HHH 2002 PPVs:
NWO 02 vs Kurt Angle- : **3/4
WM 18 vs Chris Jericho : **3/4
Backlash 02 vs Hulk Hogan : *
JD 02 vs Chris Jericho : ***1/2
KOTR 02 vs Undertaker : 1/2*
Summerslam 02 vs Shawn Michaels : ****1/2
Unforgiven 02 vs Rob Van Dam : ***1/4
No Mercy 02 vs Kane : **1/4
Survivor Series 02 Elimination Chamber : ****1/2
Armageddon 02 vs Shawn Michaels : *3/4

2002 honestly wasn't as bad looking at my ratings on here lined up as I thought. I mean he did have a classic with HBK, but also had a horrible match with HBK. The EC is the best EC to date and HHH was in it the whole time. The Taker match at KOTR was horrible. The match against Angle was forgettable, as was his WM ME with Jericho. His HIAC with Jericho was a great match, though a bit disappointing for a cell match during a time where the majority of cell matches were ****+ around it (Taker/Lesnar, 6-man, Foley/HHH, etc.), but still it was a good way to end an overall mediocre feud. The Hogan match was terrible but it was against Hogan. The RVD match was good at Unforgiven, and the match with Kane was decent from what I remember.

HHH in 2003... just ran through my ratings. I want to re-watch the Goldberg matches (I think... lol) since those are very fuzzy. I may also re-watch that Steiner RR match after reading Yeah1993's (?) review of it. If it's that hilariously bad to me nowadays, I'll remove it from the DUD category. But HHH in 03 is the polar opposite of 2000. Rather than having a few mediocre matches in a sea of awesome ones, he has a few good ones in a sea of terrible matches. 2000 the stars were aligned right with all the right opponents at the best time in HHH's career, while 2003 was all the worst opponents possible at a time when he wasn't that good in the ring and incredibly boring. The best I have from in in 03 is WM19 against Booker T.
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:03 AM   #3655 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K1ngOfK1ngs View Post
Triple H PPV Match Ratings : 2002

NWO 02 vs Kurt Angle- : *** 1/4
WM 18 vs Chris Jericho : ****
Backlash 02 vs Hulk Hogan : * 3/4
JD 02 vs Chris Jericho : *** 3/4
KOTR 02 vs Undertaker : * 3/4
Insurrexion 02 vs Undertaker- : *** 1/4
Global Warning vs Lesnar vs The Rock- : *** 1/4
Summerslam 02 vs Shawn Michaels : *****
Unforgiven 02 vs Rob Van Dam : ****
No Mercy 02 vs Kane : ** 3/4
Survivor Series 02 Elimination Chamber : **** 1/2
Armageddon 02 vs Shawn Michaels : *** 3/4

Fantastic babyface performance at NWO vs Angle. With Stephanie as the referee, no matter how bad the whole marriage/pregnancy angle was, Hunter did a great job at playing the "me against the world" type character. The fast counts at the beginning of the match added a nice touch, and when Stephanie was taken out of the equation it actually shocked me that Kurt won. Kurt, however was worse than he was in the previous PPV matches against Hunter, going from some good wrestling to super-saiyan Kurt in a matter of seconds. All of that aside, this was a great match with some great face storytelling by Hunter.

The Wrestlemania XVIII match against Jericho is one of the most underrated matches of all time. It gets a bad rep because what, the crowd was spent ? To the people who say that, FUCK YOU. This was the MOTN by far in my books, as the psychology is rock solid, the storytelling is fantastic, and if you wanna talk about the crowd being into it, the pop that Hunter receives when he wins is actually out of this world. We have Jericho going after the injured Quad/leg of Hunter and basically tearing him apart while his ex Stephanie is in his corner. It was a true Wrestlemania moment to see Hunter overcome the odds and get back at both Jericho and Stephanie. It just REALLY pisses me off to see people hate on this match because it followed Rock-Hogan. Hunter and Jericho both brought it 100 percent, and it's the best match these two ever had together besides the amazing Fully Loaded match. The ending of the match and subsequent celebration still gives me chills. I've seen people give this match ** 1/4, and to those people I say this ; Atmosphere is good and adds to a match, but it isn't everything. Fuck you :P .

The Backlash match with Hogan is WAAAYYY too long at 22 minutes. Hunter has a pretty well mapped out plan against Hogan to attack the bad knee, but the match is so drawn out and boring that I never cared in the least, and that's saying something as I'm a big Hogan fan as well. Who had the brilliant idea for these two guys to go 22 minutes ? One of Hunter's worst PPV encounters, and it's weird because the match itself isn't all that terrible, but it might be the most boring HHH matches that I've ever seen for the first 18 minutes of the match . Then a whole bunch of crazy shit happens. At the end of the day, this match has a few bright spots but is just mainly BAD.

Already reviewed the HIAC match with Jericho in depth for my Cell project but I'll basically come out and say it like this ; A fantasticly entertaining match with some great spots and some good in ring work, but this shouldn't have been in the cell and the storytelling wasn't all that great. Still, a very very good match between these two but I'll take the Wrestlemania match over this one. Wanna know more, just look at my in depth review

The KOTR and INSX matches with Undertaker are two completely different matches on the star scale. The KOTR match is a sloppy encounter with no coherence whatsoever. I actually think I could be overrating it because I love Taker and Hunter so much, but what the fuck do I know ? One of the worst PPV matches I've seen out of Hunter as he was just OFF here. Just a poor excuse for a PPV main event, THEY FUCKED UP A ROLL UP! The INSX match is a surprising gem, as it's a back and forth type match with both guys hitting the big moves on one another until Taker finally gives and loses clean to Hunter for I think the only time in WWF/WWE history. The last 5-6 minutes are actually fucking awesome and I encourage any fan of the Taker-HHH series to see it, as it's how a face Hunter vs heel Taker should work. Intense.

The Global Warning triple threat was entertaining as hell, what can I really say about it ? It had some good sequences, some typical Rock bullshit, and Lesnar looked like a damn monster out there. Hunter was really only there to be destroyed and do the job, but he played his role perfectly and neither man really looked weak at the end of this one. A forgotten great match with a great finishing sequence. All 3 men were actually pretty good and entertaining.

The Summerslam match with Michaels is one of the greatest matches of all time in my book. The storytelling is some of the best I've ever seen in my entire life with Hunter just unloading on Shawn's back until Shawn wakes up and remembers just who in the hell he really is and proceeds to just TAKE it to Triple H. I still shake while watching this very emotional match, and Michaels selling and bumping is better than ever, even after being out of the ring for 4 years. Hunter does a brilliant job of playing up that this is his ring now, and that his ring has no place for Shawn Michaels anymore. It's a new game (no pun intended) , and Hunter wants to prove the Shawn that he's the man now. The commentary is amazing with the atmosphere being breathtaking. I can't rate this as anything less than perfect as the psychology was perfect, the storytelling was perfect, the atmosphere was perfect, and the intensity and brutality of this match was PERFECT. Amazing match that I could watch over and over again. The showstopper lives!

I went in depth about the RVD match at Unforgiven before, and how it's one of the most underrated HHH matches of all time. Basically, I love how the styles clash between RVD's high flying and The Game's cerebral assassin like tactics that he pulls on RVD. The first half of the match is all psychology, with RVD getting inside the Game's head, and the second half is The game grounding RVD and plugging him into HIS formula. I honestly think that Brett Mix is the only other person to give this four stars besides me, but I think this match deserves it.

The No Mercy match with Kane isn't fantastic, but it's still an above average encounter between two workers with less than great chemistry in the ring together. This starts off all over the place and turns into an overbooked piece of madness with Hunter bumping around and taking some pretty sick spots through the announce table and all over the ring for Kane. Yes, I know the storyline was horrendous, but that doesn't take away from this pretty good contest. Definitely not up to HHH standards, but better than alot of matches he would have in the following year.

The inaugural Elimination Chamber was IMO the second best chamber of all time. What this match had going for it was the intensity that takes place in the match, the excitement, and definitely the drama. Going into this match nobody had a clue who was going to win, which compared to this years elimination chambers, is something we can't say far too often. The commentators made it seem like these men were gladiators going to do battle. RVD was a great first spot monkey in the EC, Kane was a great monster that needed teaming up on to be eliminated, Booker and Jericho did a fantastic job of being workers in this match, whilst Hunter and Shawn stole the show once again. The ending minutes are some of the most intense minutes I've seen in a wrestling match, with the pop Shawn receives from the MSG crowd at the ending being one of the loudest I've ever heard. Doesn't hold up well for alot of people after they know who the victor already is, but this is a classic in my book, and once again, the second best EC ever.

The Armageddon match is the match that I think a majority of people will disagree with me on. I can understand why people would hate this match as the psychology is incoherent and kind of fucked, but that's why I never gave it the full four. I LOVE this match and it's a personal favourite of mine as we get two of my all time favourite workers and put them in a match together for that long, add in tons of intensity and a damn good pace (better paced than the cell match IMO), and you have all the makings of a fantastic contest. You can argue that the last fall is kind of fucked, but I loved every second of this and I can watch it over and over again. I just love these Hunter 3SOH matches for some reason, although I heard the one with Orton is pretty bad, but I guess I'll just have to see.

Gonna have most or all of 03 watched tonight, going to try to finish the Goldberg series as quick as possible, not excited at all. This is what I've gathered so far ; The first Steiner match is hilariously awful but entertaining, the No Way Out match is hilariously awful but actually not that bad (if that makes sense), Booker-Hunter is ANOTHER underrated WM match from HHH, Backlash tag is good, Nash series is MEH, and yeah that's all I have about now :P Off to watch SS 03, UNF 03, SSeries 03, and ARM 03.

PS: Cena-Orton Ironman is **3/4 where I sit. Would have made a good LMS with all the ridiculous shit, but not an Ironman match. The worst of the 7 WWE ironman matches in my book. It's a good watch and certainly not boring, but only watch it once. Actually, I'm glad we never got a Cena-Orton LMS match because that means we wouldn't have gotten the first HHH-Orton LMS match that was fucking awesome

I'm sorry but for a match to be in 4*-5* range EVERYTHING from the commentary to the crowd must work for the match. It's my same argument against Punk/Jericho this year at WM, the crowd HAS to be into it because that is part of the match. It's not impossible it's just very difficult. Especially with this GOD AWFUL build up for this match. Read Jericho's second book for more details in that.
Im sure the match would have been better with different card placement, but you can thank Triple H for that.

**
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:37 AM   #3656 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

That 'Mania X-8 match is one of the most boring matches I've watched. Technically, it is fine, but this isn't Raw. On Unforgiven against RVD, it's a good match with nice spots, but the ending ruins it for me. If they had gotten time to have a proper match, it would have been fine. 3 Stages of Hell against Michaels doesn't have any psychology and it's just doing the rounds until the last spot.

I prefer Hogan match at Backlash to the 'Mania X-8 match. Thought the Hogan match was technically fine. It's just Hunter doing his stuff and Hogan doing nothing, it drags it down.

The reason why Hunter was poor in 2002 is because Hunter had ONE match in the entire calender year that's worthy of remembrance. The rest are just mediocre and mostly terrible.
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:41 AM   #3657 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

To each his own. You make a valid point, it's just sometimes I feel that atmosphere in a match is overrated, but it can certainly add or take away from a match. In my defense I have to say this ; It's a Triple H match and Hunter is my favourite wrestler hands down. I have his damn book that has barely anything to do with wrestling for fuck sakes, so I didn't really need any extra atmosphere going into his big moment/comeback, because I've already created enough atmosphere myself. That's why we see Undertaker fans rating Undertaker matches higher, Rock fans rating Rock matches higher , etc. We build our own anticipation and atmosphere for the matches we TRULY care about.
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Old 07-07-2012, 01:09 AM   #3658 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K1ngOfK1ngs View Post
To each his own. You make a valid point, it's just sometimes I feel that atmosphere in a match is overrated, but it can certainly add or take away from a match. In my defense I have to say this ; It's a Triple H match and Hunter is my favourite wrestler hands down. I have his damn book that has barely anything to do with wrestling for fuck sakes, so I didn't really need any extra atmosphere going into his big moment/comeback, because I've already created enough atmosphere myself. That's why we see Undertaker fans rating Undertaker matches higher, Rock fans rating Rock matches higher , etc. We build our own anticipation and atmosphere for the matches we TRULY care about.
True, btw I think his greatest moment came on his return to MSG which has imo the LOUDEST pop I ever heard. And this is coming from someone who's not a big HHH fan.
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Old 07-07-2012, 01:09 AM   #3659 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I like Hunter too. He's one of my favorites.

You want a counter-argument? Look at 'Mania 22 against Cena. It's a good enough match but the atmosphere made it. It's one of the greatest WM main events ever and the crowd had as much part in making the match the epic it was.

Atmosphere can make or break a match. On Raw, it's less likely that anybody would focus on the crowd and atmosphere; at 'Mania, it is unacceptable to have a match that people there don't seem to care. Unless the two end up having a straight up classic, it's unlikely that such a match will be remembered fondly.
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Old 07-07-2012, 01:40 AM   #3660 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Coolquip View Post
True, btw I think his greatest moment came on his return to MSG which has imo the LOUDEST pop I ever heard. And this is coming from someone who's not a big HHH fan.
The pop Austin got when he ran in to help Mankind win the title on RAW in 99 is the biggest I've ever heard, but to each his own.

Just re-watched Christian vs. Alberto Del Rio from Extreme Rules 2011. Great match. I remember how nervous I was that Christian was going to lose.
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