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post #19491 of 20566 (permalink) Old 02-23-2013, 07:48 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I think it's impressive enough that you've gone to five of them. Completely understandable to not fork up that money if there isn't a huge chance that you'll enjoy the show. I'm sure you've had tons of awesome memories come out of the ones you've been to, anyway.

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post #19492 of 20566 (permalink) Old 02-23-2013, 07:54 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Wrestlemania XXX is probably the last Mania worthy of attending. Maybe I should think about doing something for next year around this time. If I miss that, I might as well miss every other event WWE puts on since ROCK, Taker and Brock will probably never be on the same card again and from the full-time roster, Orton is the only guy I would even consider worthy of seeing in person, specially for someone living on the other side of the world.

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post #19493 of 20566 (permalink) Old 02-23-2013, 08:02 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I've been to four. 25 - 28. Had I gone this year it would have been five .

It's the fact that it's such a big trip and it's expensive. I want my money's worth at the end of the day you know? Until WWE gets some of their current guys up to the level that I'll be willing to pay that amount of money to fly across the world to see them, I'm just not going to do it any more.

I've been very fortunate. The list of stars I've seen perform live in person is incredible. I got to meet my all time favourite wrestler ever last year in the GAME. After XXX I think I could cap off attending Mania unless by some miracle WWE gets amazing again from top to bottom.

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post #19494 of 20566 (permalink) Old 02-23-2013, 08:17 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Would've demanded my money back at XXV for that Kid Rock concert.

Being able to see the Taker vs KLIQ tour in it's entirety live is fucking awesome.

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post #19495 of 20566 (permalink) Old 02-23-2013, 08:30 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

If anybody is interested, I have just reached the halfway point for my first ever project, which is the Kidman/Juventud Guerrera WCW series. Bear with me, as I have never done an in-depth review before, and I would love any and all feedback/criticism for this work. Well without further ado, here is my first attempt at a real project.

[August 26, 1996]
Spoiler for Match #1:

Juvi's WCW debut match and their first ever encounter. This match was certainly more about Juvi than it was about Kidman as Kidman was a vanilla jobber at the time. Kidman starts the match off by doing a pretty cool powerslam. Quickly the match goes to the outside. Juvi tries to perform a sunset flip powerbomb on the apron, but the execution was a bit sloppy. Nice leg drop to the outside and springboard 360 spin from Guerrera to redeem himself. Kidman reverses another springboard move into a powerbomb, and follows up with a springboard legdrop. Kidman really is getting the opportunity to perform a lot more offense than expected. SSP! Kidman hits the SSP for only a two count! He gets greedy and tries to perform the SSP again, but Juventud gets back up in time and does a nice looking top rope Frankensteiner for the victory. Fun sub-5 minute match with a surprisingly hot crowd. After the match, Mean Gene attempts to interview Juvi, and I stress the word "attempt". At the time, Juvi did not know much English, so his entire promo (which related to a future match with the cursed Konnan over the "Mexican Title") was in Spanish, which garnered boos. Juvi ends the disaster by shouting one of the funniest things ever said in a promo. Please, whatever you do, watch the post-match promo!

Things to look out for: Juvi's post-match promo.

[February 5, 1998]
Spoiler for Match #2:

These two actually had a match before this one in November of 1997, but I could not find it anywhere. I did however find a rare Regal/Chris Adams bout that occurred on that same show. At this point, Kidman is not a jobber anymore, and is now a member of the Flock. Beginning of the match starts off with Kidman taunting Juvi, and Juvi reacts by slapping Kidman across the face. Some nice fast-paced offense by Juvi afterwards. However, just as Juvi was going to do a headscissors takedown, Kidman does an awesome facebuster counter! GOD DAMN, LODI IS OVER! This crowd won't stop shitting on him. Guerrera does a cool hurricanrana from the top rope to the outside onto Kidman. Guerrera does another one inside the ring with Kidman that led to a smooth pinfall attempt. Juvi performs the Juvi Driver and gets ready to do the 450, but Lodi bothers him, which gives Kidman enough time to do a bulldog and a SSP for the finish. Love this story of the 450 vs. SSP being emphasized in this series so far.

Things to look out for: Juvi's two hurricanranas, Kidman's facebuster counter

[February 19, 1998]
Spoiler for Match #3:

At this point, Juventud is now the #1 contender for Jericho's Cruiserweight Championship at Superbrawl VIII. On the other hand, Schiavone plays up the story of how Kidman cares less about being a Cruiserweight champ, and more about being a member of the Flock. Some more fast paced action to begin with. ANOTHER awesome counter by Kidman, this time on Juvi's wheelbarrow attempt. Lodi interrupts Juventud's tope attempt, but eventually Lodi's idiocy causes both him and Kidman to get hurt. MichiJUVI Driver! These fans love Juventud! 450 for the victory. OH MY GOODNESS! Jericho is here! Jericho pulls off Juventud's mask (while still wearing his belt), but Juvi has another mask underneath the one Jericho pulled off. Short match that was done only to make Juvi look strong, but fun overall segment nonetheless.

Things to look out for: Kidman's wheelbarrow counter, JERICHO!

[April 28, 1998]
Spoiler for Match #4:

Their next match wouldn't come until two months later, and this is Juvi's first bout with Kidman after he got unmasked. Match starts off with Kidman heeling it up, which leads to a shoving war and some more offense from Juvi. Guerrera seems to have a certain "oomph" to his moves now, which makes sense with his new "Unmasked Warrior" character. Just as Juventud goes for a corner 10-punch spot, Kidman counters with a sick top rope BK Bomb! Kidman is 3/3 in these matches with regards to nice counters. Love Kidman's mix of high flying and brawling on display here, which also fits in with his Flock gimmick. Kidman gets caught on the rope, which leads to a nice Juvi hurricanrana. Match is similar to their previous encounter. Only difference is that Kidman gets to implement more offense than he did before. So far, all of their matches have been around five minutes each, but each match has something fun in there.

Things to look out for: Kidman's BK Bomb

[May 11, 1998]
Spoiler for Match #5:

Another short but sweet match between these two on Nitro. Match starts off with some nice maneuvers and counters. The action quickly moves to the outside after Juvi performs a sick springboard dive. When the match goes back in the ring, Kidman performs a really cool powerbomb-to-facebuster move that got a ton of cheers from the crowd. Counter after counter after counter. JUVI DRIVER for only a two count. While the ref is grabbing Kidman's shirt for no apparent reason, THE YETI comes in and does a two-handed chokebomb on Juvi, which leads to a SSP and a victory for Kidman. You could tell that the crowd REALLY wanted to cheer for Kidman, but his association with the Flock prevented them from doing so.

Things to look out for: Powerbomb-to-facebuster, Reese carrying Juvi like a baby in his arms to the back while Kidman piggybacks onto Reese

[May 25, 1998]
Spoiler for Match #6:

Finally we get our first extended bout between these two, and this does not disappoint. Kidman begins the match by slapping Juvi across the face, which causes Juvi to do the same to Kidman. Kidman getting more heat than usual tonight. There is a storyline going on right now involving Juventud constantly fighting members of the Flock. BK BOMB! Oh I love that move. Juvi gets fired up and even rips off Kidman's shirt to sell the fire in this feud. AIR JUVI! Oh my goodness the height on that dive was astounding. Kidman does the unthinkable and actually performs an X-Factor that did not look stupid. Love the way Juvi sells Kidman's stomps. These guys are making use of every second available. One thing I noticed is that prior to this match, these guys never had a rest hold on each other until Kidman does one here. This leads to Juvi getting the crowd on to his side and escaping from the hold, only to get viciously clotheslined by Kidman. LOL at Kidman's constant itching. This crowd is loving this match. POWERSLAM by Kidman! So many awesome moves in this bout, and the crowd is buying into every nearfall. Powerbomb-to-facebuster only gets a two for Kidman. Awesome release german suplex on Juvi. Juvi Driver and 450 gets a great pop from the fans as well as the pinfall. Love the way that Juvi sells the wear and tear of the match after his victory. If there is one match so far that you need to watch between these two, it is this one.

Things to look out for: All the moves mentioned in this review, Juvi's selling, HOT crowd

[June 11, 1998]
Spoiler for Match #7:

Only a couple weeks later do we get our next battle between these two thoroughbreds. Unfortunately, as the match begins, who else but the New World Order decide to interrupt the proceedings. Juvi goes for a plancha, but LODI pushes Kidman out of the way. He may be as talentless as they get, but Lodi's mannerisms are hilarious. Powerbomb to the barricade by Kidman. BAW GAWD KANG! KIDMAN HITS THE APRON SSP! Yes, it was sloppy as all hell and it might have hurt both of their knees, but that move really caught me by surprise. Heenan's commentary is on point tonight. For whatever reason, Kidman puts Juvi in a minute-long resthold which garners serious boos from the crowd. Really ruined the flow of the match. Juvi really can't seem to do a wheelbarrow move on Kidman without Kidman throwing him halfway across the ring. Love Kidman's "snap" that comes with his powerslam and BK Bomb. Desperation Juvi Driver leads to another 450 for a Juvi victory. The match contained tons of great action and fun moves, but there were two small flaws in this match that makes it weaker than their previous bout:

1. That awfully long resthold
2. The no-selling of the knees. Both guys probably could have done something regarding selling a knee injury, but it ultimately never manifested.

Things to look out for: Kidman's SSP, Heenan's commentary

[June 13, 1998]
Spoiler for Match #8:

This is their last match before their first ever PPV match together at Bash at the Beach. In addition, I could not find this match on Profightdb's database, but some kind fellow uploaded this on Youtube. I love the WCW Saturday Night arena. Juvi releases a fury of forearms onto Kidman. Juvi is really on his game with all these strikes and moves tonight. Kidman with a vicious choke and hairpull on Juvi. He really is an underappreciated heel. Ropewalk-to-guillotine leg drop from Kidman. This is probably the first time I heard the crowd chant "Kidman Sucks", which leads to Kidman covering his ears with his hands. Wow, that sunset flip counter by Juventud was a great nearfall. Juvi returns the favor on Kidman by pulling his hair back. I don't know if the camera angle was off, but tonight's BK Bomb looked botched. Kidman avoids the 450 for once! Unfortunately he could not avoid the Juvi Driver, once again giving the victory to Guerrera.

Things to look out for: Kidman's heelish mannerisms

[Bash at the Beach 1998]
Spoiler for Match #9:

It took nearly two years, but these two finally get their first PPV match together, albeit unannounced. Huge pop for Juvi from the largely Latino crowd. GRAPPLE WAR leads to forearm shots. Apparently this is Kidman's PPV debut as well according to Tenay. Oh god, not the "We Want Flair" chants. Do it to the Rodman match, but not this! Juvi kicks Lodi's hat away for a mixed reaction from the crowd. The brutal powerbomb guillotine barricade spot makes its return. These bumps to the outside look absolutely painful, and I highly doubt that these WCW mats have much give. HOLY SHIT! Pardon the French, but spectacular top rope BK Bomb that only gets a two count because Kidman has to itch his ass. Kidman attempts to do his own Juvi Driver, but Juventud reverses it into a rollup. Beautiful dropkick by Kidman that puts the likes of Hardcore Holly to shame. Awesome springboard hurricanrana to bring Kidman back into the ring. Sambo suplex! Both of these guys are on their game. So many great convincing nearfalls in this match. Kidman attempts a SSP on Kidman, but his miss gives Juvi a chance to do his 450 for the win. I haven't watched this PPV in years, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was the match of the night.

Things to look out for: BK Bomb, All the moves performed on the outside

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post #19496 of 20566 (permalink) Old 02-23-2013, 08:58 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Eh, Hansen worked for WWWF and Colon was there for a cup of coffee. Plus there's nowhere else I can put this really and this thread is a good way for a varied discussion to develop and for people to come across matches they otherwise might never find.

Stan Hansen vs Carlos Colon, Bullrope Match, WWC (1/6/87)

Great match with a rabid crowd and two great performances. Both men bleed and beat the snot out of one another and there's a great pacing throughout and timing of the dramatic nearfalls with Hansen in particular having numerous opportunities at touching the 4th post only to be denied by a spirited Colon. Loved how they went after the other right from the get go and were eye gouging each other in the opening minute to counter the other and gain control. No messing about or trying to wrestle, if there's an eye to be gouged they'll do it if they think it'll get an advantage. Hansen again bleeds early and sells wonderfully throughout. He takes some great bumps and really manages to sell expressively to pull the crowd into the match without making it overly theatrical that it looks hammy. Colon again plays the aggressive and resilient hero to a tee and is suitably vicious throughout.

Really loved how both men would repeatedly find counters to contain the other from touching all 4 corners. Colon rolling to the outside to interrupt the count, leading to Hansen trying to pull him in over his back was a smart spot and the later spot where Hansen is inches away from winning only for Colon to wrap his legs around the chain and valiantly yank Hansen to the mat was a great visual. Hansen groaning and almost crying in disbelief at coming so close really sold the spot and his subsequent wandering over to Colon really had you believing he was going to beat the crap out of him. The finishing stretch again has Hansen breaking up Colon's onslaught with repeated cowbell shots just as he's advancing to the 4th turnbuckle. Each one was timed so effortlessly that it captured the Sting/Vader dynamic of pulling you into the battle and making each nearfall feel more enticing and believable than the last. Finish is excellent with Hansen having interrupted Colon after he gets the 3rd turnbuckle, only to try and touch the 4th for himself with Colon holding on and a great visual of Hansen's pained face trying to no avail to make it to the corner. He turns round and we get a great standoff with both men jockeying for control of the bullrope before Hansen rushes in and Colon immediately backdrops him and jumps into the corner to touch the 4th turnbuckle and win.

Stan Hansen vs Carlos Colon, Cage Match, WWC (3/14/87)

This is yet another demonstration of Hansen's capabilities. Match is win by escape but they do an excellent job of working a physical and violent bloodbath and Hansen in particular sells superbly to create this 'deer staring into headlights' esque environment where he's just looking to escape wherever possible. They do a shockingly good job at making Hansen rotating between the door and climbing the cage logical with him only climbing sparingly and doing so when he winds up collapsed against the ropes. Hansen in particular is so great at bumping wildly and being such an expressive performer for everything Colon throws his way. There's one spot where Hansen is on the outside and Colon just rifles a short range headbutt square in the nose and Hansen sells it immaculately by collapsing like he was just floored in a bar. His staggering and near comatose state really puts over the war and he does it in such a way that it draws you into his peril and how he'll escape and fend off the bloodthirsty Colon. Loved the Backlund/Valentine esque build around Colon trying and failing to lock on the figure four which dominates the middle section of the match. Hansen is tremendous fighting and screaming in vain to frantically fend off Colon and there's one spot where he just punches him square in the back of the noggin to stop the onslaught.

Hansen dishes out some trademark stiff shots with a couple of perfectly placed kneedrops right in the face and one stiff as heck short arm lariat that looks like it should have concussed Colon. Hansen basically collapsing onto Colon upon impact was a nice little bit of continuous selling. Ending is chaotic and wonderful as Hansen uses his boot to try and put Colon away only to be caught once again and is finally unable to prevent the figure four being locked on. Hansen is shrieking and crying for help whilst the crowd goes bonkers and then faces and heels get into a wild free for all outside the Cage and the crowd becomes unglued. Colon eventually releases the hold and triumphantly walks out of the Cage and into another brawl and sets about beating the piss out of more people. Hansen hobbling to the showers whilst world war three is breaking out around him was a super nice touch and by the end another babyface is motionless on the floor bleeding badly. Excellent match with a great showcase Hansen performance and Colon really delivering as the tenacious, resilient and heroic babyface out for blood.
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post #19497 of 20566 (permalink) Old 02-23-2013, 09:22 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
Slightly sad I'm missing Mania this year but overall not all that bothered which has surprised me tbh. It's definitely going to be weird as hell watching the event from my living room for the first time in 5 years though. I'm definitely going to XXX and after that I think I might call it quits. As horrible as some people in here might find it, I'm not paying 1/2k plus to fly across the world to see Dolph Ziggler main event Wrestlemania. I think Taker will most definitely be gone come 31 which will suck. I don't see Rock sticking around after 30. Brock will most likely be gone by then too and I think the same goes for HHH. I'm a Cena mark but I'm not paying all that money just to see him. It would be different if Mania was in my city and it wasn't such a huge trip but for all that money, a Mania without star power isn't worth it since that's essentially what you're paying for and the midcard doesn't gey any investment at all. That probably isn't a popular opinion in these parts but it's the truth for the vast majority of people who attend the event, including myself. They haven't built up anybody to replace these guys and they're definitely going to feel the bite come Wrestlemania 31/32 imo.
Completely Agree, I hope to make WrestleMania 30, were in the last days so to speak of guys like Taker, Rock, Brock all being the center pieces to make WrestleMania feel special, personally looking back I didn't think WrestleMania's 22 to 26 were appealing and the same goes for 27 but Rock added made it must see on television anyway.

I think even though this is REMATCHAMANIA, I think the card is still pretty appealing to see live, I mean ROCK/CENA and BROCK/TRIPS are still fucking unique matches

Your right regarding WWE post Rock, Brock and Cena which will probably fall around WrestleMania 33+ IMO since im a little more optimistic about how long Rock will be around.

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post #19498 of 20566 (permalink) Old 02-23-2013, 09:25 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Just rewatched the Punk doc and I'm solidifying it as the #2 doc WWE has put out behind the ECW one. So much more depth than any of the other ones they put out.

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post #19499 of 20566 (permalink) Old 02-23-2013, 09:36 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by KingOfKings View Post
Now there's a bold statement (do I agree? we'll see... I oughta get to the next batch of Wrestlemania matches on my list just to piss Cody off) that I like to see out of people sometimes.

Oh fucking christ I have to sit through another Dolph vs Kofi match ? UGH, can somebody tell me if they remember anything about any of these matches ?

- Sheamus vs Sandow (October 1)
- Bryan/Kane vs Del Rio/Otunga (October 5th)
- Punk vs Ziggler (October 5th)
- Bryan vs Ziggler (October 29th)
- Cena/Ryback vs Punk/Ziggler (November 5th)
- Orton vs ADR (FCA ; November 6th)

GOD DAMN there's a ton of Dolph on this set, they must really see a fucking ton of potential for sure. I don't know if anybody else feels the same about some of Dolph's mic work in the sense that alot of it seems, well... Forced. It's like he tries way too hard to be that "show stealing douchebag" character and alot of the time it's just.... I don't even know. DOLPH is such a confusing case for me honestly because I don't ever think he can be THE top heel due to his strength being taking a beating and bumping around and shit, while I don't think he can be a top face due to him just looking like somebody I could never ever get behind as a face.

He's unbelievably talented, but I just don't know about him.
Yeah, I need to see that pumped out already. If I skipped over your list, let me know man.

I wouldn't go out and call Dolph's mic work forced. Compared to where he was back in 2009, he's managed to grow into his ability on the mic if you ask me. I buy into it. Not wearing the Dolph goggles either. He gives off the "show off" vibe well. It isn't complicated. He finds the outlets to deliver it well. He'll probably never be a top heel. If he reaches the level of a Edge/Orton then that's not a half bad position either. Top star, only not really THE man. (except Edge got rewarded for his life contributing effort having to retire and all. You get what I'm presenting nonetheless.)

Originally Posted by Big Z View Post
- GOAT RAW Match - Bret/Owen 3/3/97
- GOAT SD Match - Undertaker/Angle 03
- GOAT WWF/WWE Tag Match - You know, I'm not too sure. Certainly not the Power Trip/ChrisX2 match though. I SHALL THINK.
- GOAT Summerslam Match - Angle/Lesnar 03
- GOAT Ladder Match - Benoit/Jericho 01 (so that's one right ).
Sounds like fun.

- GOAT RAW Match - Damn. Thought this was going to be easy. Drawing a massive blank. I'll come back to it.
- GOAT Smackdown Match - Undertaker vs Angle '03 or Guerrero vs Mysterio '05
- GOAT WWF/WWE Tag Team Match - Probably Rockers vs Brainbusters I. Or anything involving Rockers, at least.
- GOAT Summerslam Match - Austin vs Angle '01
- GOAT Ladder Match - Jericho vs Benoit '01

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post #19500 of 20566 (permalink) Old 02-23-2013, 09:54 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Best match I've ever seen live wasn't from the WWE, it was in TNA. Motor City Machine Guns vs. Generation Me (Young Bucks). WWE wise the most fun I had was (no joke) MNM vs. The New LOD when it was Animal & Heidenreich. A bunch of shenanigans & a doomsday device.

funnyfaces1, wait til you get to their match at World War 3 that year. Great stuff.

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