Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 1825 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:18 PM   #18241 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

What Eddie did in his last PPV match against Batista was nothing short of amazing.

I mean, you can point to Batista's matches against Triple H and his matches against the Undertaker and cite them as being Batista's best match ever, but Batista was never carried more than he was that night against Eddie. The way he was playing that "good guy / bad guy" tweener role before his untimely death was a work of art and I've said it before and I'll say it again ; in terms of all around character work inside AND outside of the ring, Eddie was just about to reach his PRIME.

I seriously believe that if Eddie kept going the way he was for another 5 years up to his retirement than he would have been right behind Flair for me, what a beast. His face work was awesome, his heel work was awesome, and his tweener work was awesome. He was kind of like Punk today in the sense that he can play all three pretty damn great (despite what Punk haters may say about him not being able to play a face but I'm not getting into that argument ), although I think Eddie worked face better.

His final series with Rey was some of the most brilliant character work I have ever seen in my years watching wrestling ; with exceptional contests on Smackdown (both the EPIC JUNE MATCH and their final steel cage encounter) and at Judgment Day/The Great American Bash. When I think about it, even though some people may believe he's overrated due to the whole "untimely death" factor ; he could potentially be my WOTY for 2005.

EDIT : I'm also pissed that Rey just won't fucking retire already and stop tarnishing his legendary career with his shitty work as of late. If they took him away from Sin Cara and let him finish his career in a 15-20 minute long singles match against say.... Punk/Cena/Henry he could leave with a HELL of a bang.

Think about it, they could do it at like Summerslam or Survivor Series and have him win number one contendership by fluke or something, and announce it as his last match. That would be fucking SPECIAL, especially if it was HALL OF PAIN HENRY vs REY MYSTERIO in the ultimate underdog vs ultimate monster heel match.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:20 PM   #18242 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I should stress I am discussing just ring work there, though I do agree promo wise, charisma wise as well as his immense versatility to make any program on the card work makes him a true all round package. Though when I talk about his charisma and versatility I just mean from an in-ring perspective. Such as how he can work a simple match against Big Show and incorporate numerous spots to showcase his intelligence to counteract Show's immesne size, and then how he can go from the loveable and heroic babyface in the Lesnar & JBL programs to the blood thirsty sleazeball in the Mysterio program of 2005 with tremendous ease. He just nails everything I want from an in ring worker. He has the theatrics and grace to be labelled a performer with enough subtle and great intangible attributes to make it intriguing and not cartoony.

Best I can compare is a better Arn Anderson, which is really saying a lot for how much I hold Arn as a true talent. Both could progress from comedy and tomfoolery into serious and dramatic programs/matches with alarming ease and consistency and just had tremendous character work no matter what direction or character they were tasked to make work.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:26 PM   #18243 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Rey has only worked like 2 matches all year and both were good. The tag being really good. He's at the end of his career only he's making it work with what he's got left.

I'd still take him over half of the WWE roster.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:27 PM   #18244 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I like how you said he could be a loveable babyface one minute and a bloodthirsty sleazeball the next, as I felt the match with Batista was almost like a "devil on one shoulder angel on the other" type deal with the good inside of Eddie ultimately triumphing his demons.

As a matter of fact, I guess that match could be an allegory to Eddie's life in general.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:29 PM   #18245 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Rey's like Bryan, stuck in a handicapped position where he's not getting great time to work matches and they're in this dull cycle where only one match seems to get good time per week with the rest being sprints featuring an attempt to get as many sequences and counters in as they can. Bryan is repetitive and being stifled in terms of how much of a match he can actually be allowed to work, but does anyone expect him to fail the minute he gets a 15-20 minute PPV match with at minimum a relatively good worker? Rey's the same. Having to work quick sprints with not much to them in terms of substance or the type of match Rey perfected but stick in him in minimum 10 minute matches vs Henry, Bryan, Cesaro, Cena, Sheamus & Big Show and I'm not worrying about the quality of the match.

As for Yeah1993's point about taking Mysterio over Eddie, eh its one of those eternal 'ask me today and its one over the other, ask me next week and its the reverse' kind of deals. Mysterio at his peak was an incredible babyface wrestler with arguably the most consistent week to week performance and matches of any wrestler I've seen, though if I were to be pressed today I'd probably take the versatility of Eddie just ahead of Mysterio. Its probably the greatest toss up of consistency vs versatility and peak performances, but Eddie probably has enough in terms of a jack of all trades worker that I'm huge on atm. Not saying Rey is limited, since the depth in his babyface work is truly sensational but at present he'd just be behind Eddie. Only guy with enough peak years in WWE that I'd consider close to Eddie though.

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Old 02-16-2013, 06:33 PM   #18246 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Career v career Rey smokes everyone on the roster right now. Like, absolutely mutilates them. He'd probably be in my top ten all time, and other than Danielson IDK if I'd put anyone else on the roster in the top 100. Maybe I'm forgetting some guys who are still going.

EDIT - Eddie has heel over Rey, which I think is a plausible factor if you want to say he's better. Rey just has the most consistent (and best) run of anyone in WWE history, though. It's fucking insane how good his matches are how often. It's like 2009 Christian, but with multiple more legit great matches that stretch across an entire decade.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:36 PM   #18247 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Ugh, Bryan's situation frustrates me so much not because he's a tag worker, but because they don't even give his tag matches adequate time or reasoning in a sense that he never gets his time to shine due to him being the babyface/tweener who gets beaten down only for Kane to get the hot tag. When he HAS gotten time to shine we get things like the TLC 6 man tag match which he was clearly the star in.

I mean, fuck... Here are the singles matches that Bryan has had on PPV since joining the WWE that have been over 10 minutes long :

- vs Miz @ NOC 10
- vs DOLPH @ BR 10
- vs Barrett @ SS 11
- vs Sheamus @ ER 12
- vs Punk @ OTL 12
- vs Punk @ MITB 12
- vs Kane @ SS 12

Besides the Kane match I'd have all of them @ *** 1/2+.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:38 PM   #18248 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I'll take Eddie over Mysterio. It might not be by a far margin or anything, yet it's still the way I'll go. Mysterio is easily one of the best though. If not being compared next to Eddie he'd probably win 9 times out of 10.

Biggest Little Man set > all the rest for a reason. (I don't own Eddie's Viva La Raza so CRAP)
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:40 PM   #18249 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Glad to see Eddie/Batista getting some love. I saw that match for the first time last week and enjoyed it a lot. For the same reasons too. Eddie just working that "should I cheat? No I shouldn't" Just brilliant. I also loved his performance at the bash against Mysterio. What a dick! And of course his feud with JBL is a top 10 of mine for sure.

From what I've seen, Eddie didn't really start to impress until his return to the WWE in '02. I haven't seen much of it, but from what I've seen of his ECW and WCW work, he was just the typical lower card wrestler. I look at his match against Malenko in ECW (whichever the hell one it was in '95 where the fans seemed more interested in some idiot getting thrown out the arena) and it's hard to believe it's the same Guerrero. The selling is there (he sold the leg work really well) but he was missing that Guerrero flavour. Same thing in WCW.

But his run in WWE from 2002 till his death is just Eddie at his best. He was really starting to shape into the character that we knew and loved. His psychology had developed tremendously. I'd say that his psychology became so complex that an Eddie Guerrero match was an 'acquired taste' It's sad that he died, it really his. Who knew what Guerrero would have been doing all now had he not die. Who knows how the landscape would have been today.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:42 PM   #18250 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

You want the 97-98 run when he's a heel. 1997 Eddy Guerrero is seriously as good a heel as almost anyone in history. I kind of agree with him not feeling like Eddie Fucking Guerrero until then. He had sweet looking offense and sold well, but he needed that flavour to him. I don't think Eddie REALLY had babyface down until 2003.
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