[AlienBountyHunter]

Originally Posted by Punter

Was Triple H penciled in to be the first Undisputed Champion then?

I think Jericho was always the plan. All I know is that HHH mentioned that Vince (I think) asked him and his surgeon/ doctors whether he could do a run in at the PPV. Doctors said it was too soon. Like I said I don't know what the context would have been as he never said anything else about that story.

[Obfuscation]

Originally Posted by Choke2Death

I saw Edge/Orton being discussed a few pages back. They had four matches in 2004 and 3 of them were AWESOME. Vengeance, Raw rematch weeks after and 13/12. Add to that their Raw match after Backlash 07 and you got hell of a chemistry. Although their OTL match was nothing special.

How those two guys could give us Vengeance 2004 and then give us the WMOTY in 2010 from Over The Limit is nuts. I don't know what went wrong with that match, but sheesh. Their chemistry was very hit or miss. When it hit though, it was pretty awesome.

So I'm slamming through The Twisted, Disturbed Life of Kane right now. Love me some KANE matches. I'll harp on a prior discussion the lot of us were having when it came to Kane's career and how it parallels with this compilation - consistency. The man might not have many "classics". What he does have is a constant string of good - great matches. It's quite stellar when you get down to it. Not sure if this set is going to have a bad match on it outside of the Summerslam match vs Matt Hardy.

And to tie up both aspects of this post, Kane & Edge seemed to have some solid chemistry themselves. At least 4 singles matches in 2005 and all were pretty good. Gold Rush Tournament Finals, Vengeance, Steel Cage, & Stretcher match. Cage is probably number one for me - wildly entertaining bout. It was in that meaty part of RAW (or WWE TV in general) being great during the Post-Attitude Era/Ruthless Aggression brand extension days. Underrated bunch of years imo. Forget Attitude & forget "PG" eras (we seriously need a new term for 2008 - now b/c this stuff was PG YEARS before too) This is where the good stuff is.

[HWRP]

Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 6/23/05 - ****3/4

What a fucking war! Absolutely loved this match, great start to the match with eddie trying to prove he's the better wrestler but not being able to do so with rey continuously mounting offense and locking in the abdominal stretch and working on eddie's bruised oblique area. Eddie's sudden transformation into this dark sinister man ready to do anything to win was amazing and he was all over mysterio after chucking him off the top turnbuckle to the outside, smashing his head into the announce table and violently tossing him back/shoulder first into the steel steps. Eddie's facial expressions were amazing and he literally mocked rey by rubbing his boot over rey's face and slapping him around the head as he continued to almost treat him like an animal. Guerrero continued to work on the back hitting powerbombs, suplex', submissions and stiff shots to the head as he started showing rey what his dark side was capable of. A resilient mysterio kept hanging in showing his pure heart and managed to hit a variation of a bulldog but a frustrated eddie quickly shut his momentum down with a hard clothesline. Into the latter part of the match eddie went for the three amigos, managing to hit two of them before rey head scissored eddie into the middle ropes! It looked like it was time for the 619 but a game eddie was playing possum and managed to dodge the 619 attempt before hitting the final suplex as he completed the 3 amigos. Hardly anyone could believe that mysterio was still in the match after taking such a beating! The fans were rallying behind rey desperately trying to get him into the match and his heart shun through after he rolled away from Guerrero's frog splash attempt! Rey once again head scissored eddie into the middle rope, ran to the opposite ropes on pure adrenaline and connection with a huge 619 before soaring over the top rope and hitting a flying leg drop! He hooked the leg up, ONE! TWO! AND THREE! It was over! Rey did it once again! Eddie once again came up short and failed to beat his once best friend. Amazing performances by both men

This match had near enough everything; great storytelling, great psychology, great pacing, great character portrayal, technical wrestling, brawling, brutality and an awesome ending! This has got to be one of the best TV matches of all time, brilliant stuff. Thoughts on this match guys?

[ATF]

Well tbf HHH's actual return at MSG was better than had it actually been at Vengeance 01.

Top 5 years for the Big 4 PPV's:
1 - 2001
2 - 1998
3 - 2002
4 - 2005
5 - 1996

[murder]

Originally Posted by Punter

Was Triple H penciled in to be the first Undisputed Champion then?

According to his RF shoot, Angle was supposed to become Undisputed champion until just days prior to the show. Vince called him and said he's got to make Jericho the champion.

I think Hunter would have cost Austin the match at Vengeance had Austin still been heel to set-up heel Austin vs face Triple H at Mania. But after Austin insisted to become a face again Hunter was replaced with Booker.

[Obfuscation]

Guerrero vs Mysterio is excellent. MOTY from WWE in 2005.

[Choke2Death]

Originally Posted by HayleySabin

How those two guys could give us Vengeance 2004 and then give us the WMOTY in 2010 from Over The Limit is nuts. I don't know what went wrong with that match, but sheesh. Their chemistry was very hit or miss. When it hit though, it was pretty awesome.

Orton should've probably brought his wrist tapes with him.

As good as Vengeance is, I think that match was a little too long (27 minutes!!!). Their 13/12/04 match is one I've been praising ever since I saw it the first time.

[Obfuscation]

Originally Posted by Choke2Death

Orton should've probably brought his wrist tapes with him.

As good as Vengeance is, I think that match was a little too long (27 minutes!!!). Their 13/12/04 match is one I've been praising ever since I saw it the first time.

I thought they did a nice job at working the lengthy match up. A great job actually. I have no gripes with a long match if it's done properly. Orton's headlock phases were good to lead in for the rapid sequences in-between the grappling - which was legit. Such a different type of match worked than I think everyone was expecting.

I'd have to go out and find the 2 RAW matches to know how they hold up. I know the one following Backlash '07 does. Thanks to Edge's DVD for that gem.

[-Mystery-]

Originally Posted by Punter

Was Triple H penciled in to be the first Undisputed Champion then?

I think the original plan was as followed, Jericho was always supposed to win via interference from Triple H and not Booker T. Austin and Triple H would start up an angle leading to a match at WM 18 since they couldn't put together Austin/Hogan and went with Rock/Hogan instead. I would assume the Austin/Triple H match would be for the title, Triple H still wins the Rumble and Austin wins the title at either the Rumble or No Way Out. I have no idea what Jericho would've done come Mania time though.

[Big Z]

Originally Posted by HayleySabin

How those two guys could give us Vengeance 2004 and then give us the WMOTY in 2010 from Over The Limit is nuts. I don't know what went wrong with that match, but sheesh. Their chemistry was very hit or miss. When it hit though, it was pretty awesome.

So I'm slamming through The Twisted, Disturbed Life of Kane right now. Love me some KANE matches. I'll harp on a prior discussion the lot of us were having when it came to Kane's career and how it parallels with this compilation - consistency. The man might not have many "classics". What he does have is a constant string of good - great matches. It's quite stellar when you get down to it. Not sure if this set is going to have a bad match on it outside of the Summerslam match vs Matt Hardy.

And to tie up both aspects of this post, Kane & Edge seemed to have some solid chemistry themselves. At least 4 singles matches in 2005 and all were pretty good. Gold Rush Tournament Finals, Vengeance, Steel Cage, & Stretcher match. Cage is probably number one for me - wildly entertaining bout. It was in that meaty part of RAW (or WWE TV in general) being great during the Post-Attitude Era/Ruthless Aggression brand extension days. Underrated bunch of years imo. Forget Attitude & forget "PG" eras (we seriously need a new term for 2008 - now b/c this stuff was PG YEARS before too) This is where the good stuff is.

KANE~! I keep meaning to pick his set up, mainly for that Undertaker SD 08 match lol. Agree that he has been hugely consistent for all this time, while never having many classics or anything. I like the Edge matches too, haven't seen any in ages aside from the Vengeance match though, which I thought was really good.