Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 1726 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:56 AM   #17251 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Another thing with production, which I never noticed until... maybe Cornette (maybe someone else, I forget) said in a shoot: watch a match, any match, and ANY TIME someone takes any kind of bump... they change camera. EVERY TIME. And now you know, you'll always notice it, and its almost like the Saturday morning slam show where the camera keeps cutting and makes you feeling nauseous lol.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:58 AM   #17252 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I've noticed that for a few years.

Sometimes I kind of like it if they get closer up and show the bump at a better angle, but sometimes it's just 'this is ACTION PACKED! CHECK IT!'
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:04 AM   #17253 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Random Ratings

Taker vs. Brock No Mercy 2002 HIAC - ***3/4 (bit slow and some lapsed psychology but otherwise a really brutal and entertaining affair)

Brock vs. Cena Extreme Rules 2012 - ***** (great selling, great crowd, shocking moments, stiff elbows, great story, well paced and one of my favorite matches of all time)

Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect KOTR 97 - ****1/2

Benoit vs. Regal No mercy 2006 - ****1/2

Triple h vs. Taker WM 28 HIAC - ****

Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Summerslam 2001 - ****1/2
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:08 AM   #17254 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Taker vs. Brock No Mercy 2002 HIAC - ****3/4
Brock vs. Cena Extreme Rules 2012 - ****1/2
Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect KOTR 93 - ***** MOTY 93
Benoit vs. Regal No Mercy 2006 - ****1/4
Triple H vs. Taker WM 28 HIAC - ****3/4
Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Summerslam 2001 - ****3/4 MOTY 2001
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:08 AM   #17255 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeah1993 View Post
I also really hate the current set up of the big WWE shows (or hell, even the TV tapings). I remember watching Mania 27 and Edge came out in the opener and the only thought running through my head was how friggin small he looked on that gigantic entrance stage. It really makes the wrestlers (supposed to be THA STARS) seem so tiny and over shadowed by the production. Maybe it's just me, but lot of the time I prefer the smaller set-ups without fifty thousand graphic screens in the arena and the not-HD cameras.
HD cameras are attrocious. I didn't have any beef with them until they made me uncomfortably familiar with Sheamus's chest acne and Christian's weird flesh colored beard.
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:16 AM   #17256 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Some random ratings before I go hunting more GEMZ:

Edge vs. Kurt Angle Backlash 2002: ****
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho Judgment Day 2008: ****1/4
Ric Flair vs. Hulk Hogan Halloween Havoc 1994: ****1/2
Goldberg vs. Scott Steiner Fall Brawl 2000: **** (shocked at how good this actually was)
Mark Henry vs. The Big Show Vengeance 2011: ***3/4 (see above)
JBL vs. John Cena TGAB 2008: ***3/4
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:19 AM   #17257 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

*pokes head into thread*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Srdjan99 View Post
My top 5 WM worst matches:

5. Taker vs Sid Justice
4. Taker vs Giant Gonzales
3. John Cena vs The Miz
2. Brock Lesnar vs Goldberg
1. Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan
I wouldn't call Bryan/Sheamus a contender for worst WM match.

It wasn't excruciatingly bad and the hatred inherently stems not from their wrestling but from the mere fact that Sheamus won within the first half of a minute. It was hardly even a match. Of course the match deserves a DUD rating but the DUD is merely because there wasn't any wrestling to critique as opposed to a heap of shit that deserves the title of a dud.

Mr T/Roddy Piper WM 2
Butch/Luke Vs The Rouques WM 5
Andre Vs Hogan WM 3
Andre Vs Roberts WM 5

Those are all worse matches that actually got time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Z View Post
Taker vs. Brock No Mercy 2002 HIAC - ****3/4
Quite a high review.

I don't quite remember the match so well but what I do remember of it was that it was excruciatingly violent at the expense of psychology/logic/selling. I think I also preferred their chain match, too. Jeez, 10 years is a long-ass time.

★★★ 1/4

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOOLCOCK View Post
No-one really appreciates old school wrestling for the agility and athleticism though, like I have no qualms with you not digging it, its cool. We all have different tastes and that's what makes for fun discussion as opposed to everyone pimping the same thing.

To me the beauty of old school wrestling is the simplicity. The structure, the timing, the pacing, the character dynamics all work to overcome the largely simplistic wrestling. Ric Flair didn't wrestle matches 100 other guys couldn't of in terms of bumps and offence, but it was his ability to time and make each transition and sequence matter in the greater context, combined with his injection of his charisma and presence into his matches to create a compelling babyface vs heel dynamic. The beauty of Windham/Flair and Steamboat/Flair is how the rookie naivety of Windham plays into every transition into Flair offence, and in Steamboat's case its the matter of two equals duelling and timing each transition in a way that makes both look magnificent.

Don't even get me started on the beauty of 80s blood baths. The grainy footage can be hard to watch but I adore its visual. Makes everything look seedly, raw and insanely violent especially when you've got people like Lawler, Duggan, Sawyer and Dundee pouring blood and stiffing the crap out of each other. The reactions they can generate from simple punching and selling is incredible and whilst the majority of the brawls are punch and kick based...it comes off as an authentic brawl. I'm not a fan of the modern generation of weapons and props having to compensate for the ability to just punch a dude you dislike square in the jaw and draw blood. Its all in the simplicity and characteristics between the moves that makes 70s and 80s old school wrestling so enigmatic.

As I said though, you not digging it is cool. We're all different and that's what makes this thread so interesting.
Great post that captures the very essence of old school wrasslin' in a nut shell.

I can understand where HWRP is coming from, though. It's a completely different style of wrestling to what the Americas are now. We've become complacent with elbows, lariats or punches not being effective moves outside of transition sequences. Pinfalls follow viscerally high-impact moves and the very nature of the wrestler's moveset is completely changed. If you buy into what wrestling of today tells you is the threshold someone can sustain you will have a hard time trying to justify the finishing moves of these matches, imo. I had that exact problem, admittedly, with both Puro and "golden-era" wrestling. I must have switched off Flair/Steamboat (Chi-Town) a good few times before finally getting in to it ().

The nature of a move, in terms of its threat, is continually being challenged as wrestling ages. Only a few moves remain completely protected and as more and more wrestlers kick-out of finishers/dangerous moves the more a newer match needs to add to it in creating a believable finisher. Of course not everyone takes this to cuntingly annoying volumes but I'd say the transition is taking effect in the American indies and NOAH. Now, while you could correctly argue that RoH-spam or NOAH/Kenta do not comprise of (or accurately portray) the worldwide wrestling scene, the issue is that they weren't always like this. The very fact of this conversation is proof that wrestling does transition and I'm worried for the integrity of wrestling if that's where the path is heading.

But, I suppose, fans were saying the same thing whenever that transition started becoming apparent despite wrestling still being critically good. Don't get me wrong, I loved Ibushi/Omega from last year and dig spotfests but they weren't good matches. They were merely fun. Perhaps I'm being overly cynical (that is a trait of mine) but I can't help but think that in, say, 40 years time fans will be looking back at the matches we hold dear now with vehement disdain purely because they lack an overusage of thigh slaps or BRAIN-BUSSTTAAAAHHH~! spam. By jove, I hope I'm wrong, though.
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:57 AM   #17258 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rah View Post
*pokes head into thread*



I wouldn't call Bryan/Sheamus a contender for worst WM match.

It wasn't excruciatingly bad and the hatred inherently stems not from their wrestling but from the mere fact that Sheamus won within the first half of a minute. It was hardly even a match. Of course the match deserves a DUD rating but the DUD is merely because there wasn't any wrestling to critique as opposed to a heap of shit that deserves the title of a dud.

Mr T/Roddy Piper WM 2
Butch/Luke Vs The Rouques WM 5
Andre Vs Hogan WM 3
Andre Vs Roberts WM 5

Those are all worse matches that actually got time.
I've been rewatching WM's this past week, and with just half of 28 (Taker/HHH and forward) to go, I actually considered and I didn't include Bryan/Sheamus in my top 5 worst. It deserves being a DUD yeah, but like you said, it's only 18 seconds. I mean, 18 seconds of shit, but it doesn't scar as much as the other horrible matches (well, at least to me it didn't). It's about the 6th or 7th worst IMO.

For the peep that said that considering Bryan/Sheamus means considering Chavo/Kane as well, IMO Bryan/Sheamus is worst and more saddening than the former. Chavo/Kane was setup the very night of WM 24, while Bryan/Sheamus was built ever since Sheamus won the fucking Royal Rumble. Chavo/Kane was for the ECW Title, Bryan/Sheamus was for the WHC Title. Chavo/Kane was pretty much a cool-down match, Bryan/Sheamus was the opener of WM. And Chavo/Kane actually succeeded in doing what it was supposed to - giving Kane the belt in the fastest title change in WM history. While Bryan/Sheamus failed to do that as well. For those reasons, Chavo/Kane, despite a DUD nonethless, is definitely higher than Bryan/Sheamus on my ranking.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:17 AM   #17259 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Survivour Series 2011:

US Title: Dolph/Morrison- ***
Divas Title: Beth/Eve- **
Team Barret/Team Orton- ***1/4
Big Show/Henry- ***1/2
Punk/Del Rio- ***
Cena&Rock/Awesome Truth- ***3/4

Well this was a very good show, WWE really surprised me with this one. We had a good opener, the classical Survivour Series Match was very good, but it could have been a lot better if there wouldn't have been so many botches, then we had an insane bout between Show and Henry with an excellent crowd. I saw that many people have Punk/Del Rio **** rating, but the match wasn't so great for me. Del Rio was pretty boring here, working only on Punk's arm, nothing more. The main-event was great, Rock showed that he still has it. 8/10 for the show
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:20 AM   #17260 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Not often you see the Brock/Taker HIAC match rated below **** lol. Ah well. Definitely don't agree with any kind of lack of psychology or selling, in fact the whole lack of selling thing might be the most overrated discussion for any match ever. Undertaker's selling of the hand was pretty much spot on the whole way through imo.
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