Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 1686 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:45 PM   #16851 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by KidCharlamagne View Post
Yea, you don't know what I mean when I mention context. I'm not talking about the feud, I'm talking about how this match was wrestled in the 80s. Savage taking high risks then would not be high risks now. That's why we have to understand that, at the time, this WAS the greatest match of all-time, and they did things that were never seen before.

It's pretty much the same thing as saying Bob Cousy or Johnny Unitas wouldn't be as good if they played in their respective leagues today as they do know. Or that Babe Ruth, if baseball allowed black players, probably wouldn't have had as much homeruns. CONTEXT. But they're still great players, and it's still a great much.

There really isn't anything in that match that was never seen before. Like I said, it isn't a movefest and isn't liked for the moves in it. Even back then I wouldn't call it the greatest of all time. Slaughter/Sheik and probably 2-3 Backlund matches are better in WWF alone. Worldwide IDK if it's a top 5-10 for 1987.

Also I was sure I would be wrong about the feud thing but decided to type it anyway b/c of SHADDUP.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:51 PM   #16852 (permalink)
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Pretty decent match, better 'cos the Taker is in it, finish felt rather flat IMO though...
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:01 PM   #16853 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I'd say Savage/Steamboat is definitely a top 5 match of '87. Don't know if it'd be #1, but I'm not recalling a ton of stuff that necessarily has a better claim. All Japan wasn't all that good in '87, and most of the stuff that looked like it could be great on paper wound up being disappointing. New Japan has Fujiwara/Choshu and...IDK. I'm probably forgetting other NJ stuff, though. Lucha? Can't think of anything offhand. Can't think of any other WWF match that's fucking with it (closest is probably another Savage/Steamboat match, actually). Crockett had the Flair/Windham matches. Mid-South had Murdoch/Windham, but otherwise was in the midst of being swallowed up by Crockett. Memphis had the Lawler/Idol cage match. I'm honestly not convinced any of those matches bar Fujiwara/Choshu are better than Savage/Steamboat, and I say that as someone that had talked ad nauseum about how it wasn't all it was cracked up to be for years (before I watched the whole feud again and changed my mind).
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:13 PM   #16854 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Casas/Santo is all that springs to mind in terms of Lucha from '87 tbh. I'd put Flair/Windham Worldwide, Murdoch/Windham, Fujiwara/Choshu and Lawler/Idol matches ahead of Steamboat/Savage. Could see the argument against Lawler/Idol but I just love the angle, the payoff, the insane atmosphere and ingraned visual of Rich coming up from under the ring and the whole thing as a spectacle. Fujiwara/Choshu is arguably the best sub 15 minute match ever.

Can't remember much of Santo/Casas tbh outside of the actual match. Remember it being very good but would have to rewatch before judging it against Savage/Steamboat. I remember a Lawler/Dundee vs Midnight Express tag from 87 being excellent as well, but top 5 of '87 is probably just too far.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:56 PM   #16855 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Taker/Rock - KOTR 1999

Good little match here, first time ive seen it in years and years tbh, two ref bumps in the space of the opening minute Typical attitude era going all over the arena, with thref thinking ' fuck it, ill follow them' lol, HHH interferes and pedegree's The Rock but Taker retained the championship
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:58 PM   #16856 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfKings View Post
I'm actually convinced that Lesnar is the best worker in the company today, no joke.

Eight year absence and returns with a five star match ? Only BORK FUCKIN' LASER can pull that shit off.

WrestleMania 30: Brock Lesnar vs BORK LASER

GOAT match right there
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:00 PM   #16857 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

CM PUNK VS TRIPLE H VS BORK LASER

GOAT MATCH.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:02 PM   #16858 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Wonder if they'll induct Brock into the HOF at some stage. His speech would sure as hell be....interesting to say the least.

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Old 02-07-2013, 05:07 PM   #16859 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfKings View Post
I'm actually convinced that Lesnar is the best worker in the company today, no joke.

Eight year absence and returns with a five star match ? Only BORK FUCKIN' LASER can pull that shit off.

I don't know about that. Here's the thing with Brock and his matches:

Against Cena, it was just a type of match we haven't seen in WWE in a long time if ever, and that's a truly vicious, bloody fight with one man getting absolutely dismantled. It was refreshing and awesome to see Cena take a beating, and believable in terms of who delivered it and how it was delivered. Everything in the match and leading to the match was just aligned properly to create an awesome atmosphere, a unique match for WWE today, and as said, watching Cena getting beaten to near death is awesome. That being said, Lesnar himself and his work in the match, wasn't what made the match, and take a backseat to everything I said above. That being said, of course he's a big part of the reason for the incredible atmosphere, and I'm not trying to discount stuff like licking Cena's blood off his hands and the sick dive that could've killed him, but as I said, I feel the overall awesomness of the match is down to the natural elements associated with a guy like Lesnar, and just the general uniqueness of the match that was booked, and not necessarily because of Lesnar's "workrate".

That being said, I thought his workrate himself was better in the Summerslam match against HHH, which isn't half the match Lesnar/Cena was. It didn't have anywhere near the atmosphere Lesnar/Cena (not saying it wasn't a great atmosphere, but still), didn't have the brutality, and Brock had already lost by that point and had lost some of his "invincibleness", not to mention HHH getting the better of him on Raw 1000 in a straight-up, albeit quick, "fight".

But I'm digressing from Lesnar as the best worker talk... I just can't put him above guys like Punk, Sheamus and Bryan who go out there, and can have much better matches on a weekly basis than Lesnar/HHH, without all the intangibles that match had that had little to nothing to do with being a great worker. Well, in my opinion anyway. Lesnar in 02-04 is a different story, and still to this day he has what could be argued as the biggest presence in the history of wrestling, if not one of the biggest. He has so many intangibles going for him, that in the case of a match like Cena where they take those intangibles and add in the brutality to go along with Lesnar's strengths and create a unique atmosphere, it works and makes a damn near classic. In the case of HHH's match, it just didn't work the same imo, partially though because of the result of Lesnar/Cena.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:18 PM   #16860 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Brock definitely has my favourite "style" of wrestling right now, despite only having 2 matches lol. He really doesn't come across as a wrestler, which is exactly what they want, and I love it. Like he said, he's not a superstar, he's an ASS KICKER and watching him beat the fuck out of someone or try to snap their arm makes me . Can't wait to see who he faces next. I avoid spoilers so I don't know if there has been talks of his WM opponent or not. I'll find out when the world finds out on TV .

Wouldn't call him the best worker though. Not at all. For one, hard to base such a thing on just TWO matches. And if we're gonna call someone a top worker based on so little matches every year, Undertaker wins . Plus we have some tremendous workers on the roster, who wrestle all the time. Punk, Bryan and Sheamus definitely top the list right now. Jericho can join them if he stays around a little longer no doubt. Show is hugely underrated as a worker too. HENRY being back now lets him join the conversation. Christian should (hopefully) be back soon too. Probably a few others I'm forgetting.
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