There's a difference between a good match and a good performance. I don't really expect anyone v Barrett to be good, but if the wrestler opposite him is talented then the performance by that wrestler should be good. Orton isn't bad, but he does nothing to show me he's particularly good any more. Being in there with the same not-good opponent like Barrett isn't an excuse for not being very good yourself.
I don't give a fuck who you are or what position you are in, being in a match with a Barrett multiple times isn't an excuse to phone it in.
But here's the thing. Why bother putting effort into a 5 minute match that will be done again the next week which causes all that effort to go unnoticed? Let's say Orton puts more effort in in a Barrett match and it ends up being good. Then they have another match the next week (124989175 on the series) and the previous one will be forgotten about and all that effort will go unappreciated. Might as well phone it in since putting in any efforts helps no one.
As for Christian. He deserves better but I wouldn't blame him one bit if he ever phoned it in due to the garbage they have him put up with. And hell, he's perfect example of how working hard doesn't necessarily get you rewarded.
Telling people to phone in performances b/c they might not be appreciated by every fan is one of the worst mindsets to have if you're a wrestler. That means only about 5 guys would work hard on every show. I can't even fathom how or why someone would think like that. You're in this business. You know how things work. There will always be a pecking order. Doesn't matter where you're at. You always try and put out your best or at least effort in.
It's like that for any sport. Or most aspects of life actually.
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We will sing as one in solidarity, we will sing together. And still we will be here - standing like statues.
Telling people to phone in performances b/c they might not be appreciated by every fan is one of the worst mindsets to have if you're a wrestler. That means only about 5 guys would work hard on every show. I can't even fathom how or why someone would think like that. You're in this business. You know how things work. There will always be a pecking order. Doesn't matter where you're at. You always try and put out your best or at least effort in.
It's like that for any sport. Or most aspects of life actually.
Well, I guess we got different views on this thing so that's all I can say. If I know I'm being overshadowed by others in a wrestling show and have to wrestle the same guy every week, I would most definitely phone it in, specially if I'm on Orton's level.
The way they've been treating him since he lost the belt to Mark Henry is just complete bullshit and it's their job to give Orton something proper to do rather than wrestle the same guy every week. Hell, didn't they give him SOMETHING resembling a storyline with Kane for Mania? And the results were far better than random Barrett match #321598891. See, if they give him something, he'll have no problem delivering.
Yeah, b/c that didn't reflect anything on Kane being better than Barrett at all.
Orton worked vs Dolph & Del Rio and their matches were nothing. Just like Cesaro again. It doesn't always mean anything. The matches Orton had vs Kane were my pick for biggest surprises of the year. Didn't think their matches would be as fun as they were. Not sure why b/c Orton had fine enough matches with Barrett during their real feud in late 2011 (I liked some of them at least) and Kane was a whole new man upon his return. That shows you how much Orton's work was falling away for me at the time.
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We will sing as one in solidarity, we will sing together. And still we will be here - standing like statues.
Tbh, his matches with Ziggler and Del Rio at NOC and HIAC were good. As were the Kane matches. Now granted, they are all far better ring performers than Barrett but Orton also DID bother doing more than go through his five moves of doom quickly and just walk to the back. And I don't think I've enjoyed a single Orton/Barrett match. Not from 2010, not from 2011, not from 2012 and still nothing from 2013. HA! These two are never meant to put on a good match together. EVER.
But here's the thing. Why bother putting effort into a 5 minute match that will be done again the next week which causes all that effort to go unnoticed? Let's say Orton puts more effort in in a Barrett match and it ends up being good. Then they have another match the next week (124989175 on the series) and the previous one will be forgotten about and all that effort will go unappreciated. Might as well phone it in since putting in any efforts helps no one.
When you're a wrestler there's almost no reason to go into that 'tape-trading' sort of mindset of looking back on matches. If you're having a five minute match with Barrett - put the fucking effort in for the audience who paid their money to sit down at the show and those who are watching on TV. Most fans don't go back and watch matches for the sake of rating them or finding rarities or anything, they're there at that very moment to watch something good.
From a business standpoint, If you mail it in again and again, why would the office-people want to put you in a better position for better matches? They'd probably assume you'd mail it in there, too.
A wrestler would have be an idiot to whinge about his 'effort going unnoticed' or w/e. I think that's one of the reasons Dolph Ziggler is annoying to me. He has this sort of insider bullshit-type thing (almost gimmick) of 'I gotta make this guy look good b/c I'mma show stealer', when he just sounds like a sook who thinks he deserves the world. Like he's into 'da biz' and kayfabe calling himself 'heel' and going on twitter to say 'I have to make this match interesting' and all that crap. Am I off-topic now? IDK.
__________________ http://prograps.blogspot.com/ I've kinda stopped writing in here, I guess. Maybe not forever, IDK. PORBABA;Y (< was supposed to say 'probably' and shows how badly I type when attempting to do it swiftly. I did not edit it just because)
YEAH1993 LIKE BUTTON made by that dude who used to have George Costanza wearing a Santa hat in his avatar. Credit to that guy.
Tbh, his matches with Ziggler and Del Rio at NOC and HIAC were good. As were the Kane matches. Now granted, they are all far better ring performers than Barrett but Orton also DID bother doing more than go through his five moves of doom quickly and just walk to the back. And I don't think I've enjoyed a single Orton/Barrett match. Not from 2010, not from 2011, not from 2012 and still nothing from 2013. HA! These two are never meant to put on a good match together. EVER.
Kane matches >.
Didn't find anything special about the match vs Dolph and didn't like vs Del Rio. Or any of their matches. 2/3 falls was awful.
Orton vs Barrett from Smackdown before Survivor Series was decent, Tables match was good, & I think their final match - the no DQ - on Smackdown following Rumble 2012 was good. I'd have to relive it. Plus, their brawl in the elevator OWNED. I marked at the silly nature of it, but that's something you can only see in the world of wrestling so I liked it.
Quote:
A wrestler would have be an idiot to whinge about his 'effort going unnoticed' or w/e. I think that's one of the reasons Dolph Ziggler is annoying to me. He has this sort of insider bullshit-type thing (almost gimmick) of 'I gotta make this guy look good b/c I'mma show stealer', when he just sounds like a sook who thinks he deserves the world. Like he's into 'da biz' and kayfabe calling himself 'heel' and going on twitter to say 'I have to make this match interesting' and all that crap. Am I off-topic now? IDK.
For some reason this reminded me of:
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We will sing as one in solidarity, we will sing together. And still we will be here - standing like statues.
I personally enjoyed a few of Orton's matches with Barrett from 2011/2012, and I think the majority of their matches are passable for free TV, but they shouldn't be happening as much as they are. Honestly I doubt they could have an impressive match anymore even if they tried, because they've done pretty much everything they could do with each other multiple times.
Orton in general isn't that great, but my problems with him are essentially what's been said in this thread. He had a great match with Ziggler last year I believe, and an okay match with Del Rio at HIAC, but he just doesn't do much to interest me anymore. His in-ring work has regressed, his mic work is terrible, and coupled with that his character is horrendous. And honestly, I wish I could say I cared that WWE isn't giving him anything meaningful to do, but I don't. Not when we have talents in the main event like Punk, Rock, Lesnar, and guys around the same level on the card right now or above Orton like Jericho, Bryan, Ziggler, even Sheamus I'd put above Orton right now. Even Ryback, who's an inferior talent to Orton in just about every way, appeals to me more due to the nature and freshness of his character than Orton.
I used to be a huge Orton mark, he was even my second favorite wrestler in the company at one point next to Undertaker, but pretty much from his losing at WM25-when he won the World Title from Christian, my interest had been decreasing in him and then when he took the title from Christian, a guy who deserved to have a shot as the face of the B-brand, it was at that point I realized I didn't even really like Orton anymore. I got to a point of hating him until he lost the title to Henry, and since he's fucked off to the lower main event and been doing little to nothing, he hasn't been at the "hate" level, but rather the "I don't care anymore" level. If he got released tomorrow I wouldn't bat an eye. And if he got fired due to a wellness violation, I don't think it would matter too much anymore in the company's eyes either.
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Grabbing mothers around the world with neon claws since 1993.
I've always very much enjoyed Orton/Ziggler matches. I feel they have a good chemistry together and they can pull out more in their matches because of that chemistry and the fact that they're both decent wrestlers and it's not a carry job like Orton/Barrett matches. I honestly think Ziggler's Orton's best opponent since Christian.
Orton/Del Rio matches were average at best. Orton/Barrett matches I'm sick to death of and most of them haven't been good at all.
Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread
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