Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 1523 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:15 PM   #15221 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clique View Post
I totally agree with that just looking at the Taker/Batista series as an example. Thing is while Batista has proven he can work good matches without a Taker or HHH, I haven't seen the same from Miz since the Bryan match unless he was facing a Ziggler or a Cena. I think at least 90 percent of the credit for that NOC match being as good as it was was down to Bryan and I liked that you pointed out his selling which made Miz look even more impressive and allowed the control segment to be as engaging as it was during the match. I love the Nigel McGuinness clothesline spot they incorporated in that match. Gee, I wonder why Miz hasn't used that spot since then?
I'm not denying Bryan probably had a big hand on how to structure the match (the McGuinness clothesline spot being an obvious illustration as you stated) and obviously was a big factor in why Miz had a match of that calibre than he ever would with R Truth. But at the same time, Bryan being better than 99% of any Miz opponent doesn't necessarily mean the match turning out great renders Miz immobile and without bringing anything to the table. Bryan no doubt can sell wonderfully but if Miz was butchering every submission hold and throwing shitty offence then it would have halted the match and limited Bryan's ability, same with Miz being able to make minutes of extended and focused limbwork feel investing and intriguing.

I guess I'd call the match more of 'Bryan being better than any prior Miz opponent and working a match which broke away from the default Miz style, but Miz putting in a very good performance himself to not force Bryan to do all the work'. Like, there was never a point in the match where I thought 'damn Bryan's doing good to make this idiot look better than he is'. Miz controlled the bulk of the match and had the responsibility to work well on his end whilst allowing Bryan to sell great and build smartly to the comeback and finishing stretch. I think Miz had a bit more freedom and confidence in knowing Bryan was a great worker and so he could relax and let Bryan incorporate his talent and make for a smarter and well structured match, but a carryjob really has to be used for when one opponent is so horrible and limited that the other guy really has to do nye on everything to make the match work. That wasn't the case here.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:17 PM   #15222 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

WOOLCOCK who are your top 5 WWE workers atm?
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:20 PM   #15223 (permalink)
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Are we talking natural ability or just general consistency? Because obviously Bryan is limited to tag matches with more emphasis on schtick, but he's still naturally one of if not the best on the roster when he's given the freedom to work a match like he can.

On pure ability/talent (no order):

Bryan
Mysterio
Punk
Cena
Sheamus

Henry would be in the top 5 if he wasn't currently out. Show deserves some praise, Mcintyre would have made the cut but he's been rendered useless in the 3MB gimmick and tbf Sheamus has been too consistent to be overlooked. Lesnar is obviously very good when he wants to be, but is part time and can't be considered with the others in terms of consistency.

Babyface Del Rio looks promising, Cesaro is very good but a bit limited atm with some of the guys he's working. Needs to be allowed to be more aggressive and dominant rather than working restholds and submissions that don't really get a chance to go anywhere. People like Kidd are visually impressive workers but lacking in real depth aside from a crowd popping moveset. Ziggler needs work on his all round game before I can put him in a top tier bracket: not much about him currently aside from the bumping and his counter heavy finishing stretches.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:27 PM   #15224 (permalink)
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That was perfect. Was just curious how you ranked the current crop of wrestlers. Agreed on Brock. Wish he was still full-time.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:32 PM   #15225 (permalink)
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Should add, face Christian would be above Sheamus and Cena behind Bryan & Mysterio. Be interesting to see when (if) he returns if he'll be a face again or heel. I get people prefer him as a heel character and promo wise, but christ there's such a difference in talent between the two its remarkable. He's the closest thing to Mysterio as a face and may arguably be the best in the company at working an injury into the match (switching up his offence to reflect the injury limiting his moveset) and building to the bigger spots in a match. As a heel he just isn't as remarkable and honestly the bulk of his 2011 post heel turn was remarkably dull as a worker. Compare that to the Orton SD match and OTL when he was face and having to work as a genuine loveable underdog wrestling a bonafide superstar who no-one thought he could beat, the difference was just staggering.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:06 PM   #15226 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Switch out Punk with Orton and I'll agree with that top 5 completely. Although I'm not so sure about Mysterio since he's way past his prime at this point and injured every other day.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:10 PM   #15227 (permalink)
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Mysterio is getting bogged down, but he can still bump, sell, build and time his comeback and really just needs a strong heel and efficient time to work against. Working with Sin Cara and in the tag division has stagnated him somewhat, but he was still putting on good matches with Miz prior to the injury and subsequent return with Cara, so I'm confident if you gave him the likes of Bryan, Cesaro and a returning Henry to work programs with we'd still get a competent and able Mysterio. The good thing about him is that as his body has broken down and his agility slowly retreated his intelligence and all round working ability has shone in comparison, so long as he can still bump and form a solid comeback he won't disappoint.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:12 PM   #15228 (permalink)
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Given what you said, I would like to see a Mysterio/Cesaro feud.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:16 PM   #15229 (permalink)
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For sure. Cesaro was at his best on the indy scene working smaller, faster and more agile guys. He was big and dominant enough to make for a great base and was deceptively agile and athletic enough to take big bumps and work a faster pace when it was needed without blowing up or getting exposed. Shame the likes of Bourne, Kidd and Barretta are either injured or released because they'd be great bases to work alongside Cesaro as opposed to fuckin' Miz.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:19 PM   #15230 (permalink)
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Drooling at the idea of Rey selling a Swiss Death.
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