Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 1440 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
 
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post #14391 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 03:06 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Cliffy Byro View Post
Kurt Angle sucks because he had crap matches with John Cena
No, it's because his in ring psychology isn't great.

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post #14392 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 03:06 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

It's hard to judge a situation like Cena/Ziggler cause quite frankly I don't how they do shit in the WWE and I don't think anyone on this forum works for the WWE either.

I know for sure they call the matches on the fly (maybe one or two things are set up backstage) but I find it hard to believe that management would sit those two backstage and walk them through the match. My only guess is that things like Big E slamming the door and what not were things that were planned backstage but it's just weird ot picture the bookers saying "Hey, Dolph we want you to do a big DDT off the turnbuckle then a super kick and why not hit a zig zag? oh yeah and Cena, lay out the motherfucker with just one AA"

I don't know. I'd like to believe that Ziggler is freaking hit all these high spots for the flashiness of it without thinking just how detrimental it is to the final outcome. I mean the top rope DDT is something that screams "I'm trying to get myself over by doing something fucking huge!" You know that mindset a lot of up and comers have? They gotta do bigger and better things each week to get noticed. I get that feeling when I watch Ziggler sometimes.

Again, I don't know cause I don't work for the damn company. Like most people, I'm just speculating. But I just find it really, really hard to believe creative sits and tell the guys "Hey Ziggles, go fuck yourself"

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post #14393 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 03:08 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy Byro View Post
Kurt Angle sucks because he had crap matches with John Cena
I was giving an example of a bad match...

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post #14394 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 03:09 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

This is the same company that has booked Ziggler to lose two weeks in a row to the same guy (that accomplishes alot!) and has had the same guy DOMINATE for 8 years now. It's entirely possible they are responsible for the past two weeks.


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post #14395 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 03:10 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7 View Post
No, it's because his in ring psychology isn't great.
Ring psychology doesn't exist!! All you mofos talking about ring psychology like this is the 60s when everyone was dumb ebuff 2 think dat wrestlin wuz real!!! We all know it is fake!!! How can we believe something to be real if its fake?

Ring psychology doesn't exist anymore bcuz ppl knowdat wrestlin is fake now unlike the 50s and 60s wen every1 thought it was real cuz they were dumbfucks. I prefer workrate to "story telling" bcuz control segments r boring whereas the moves and teh spots r cool to look at.

Wrestling is a fake sport not a fake sport. Workrate FTW! Moveset FTW!

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post #14396 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 03:12 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

People still not getting the idea of subjectivity bemuses me.

Angle is bad more times than he's good for me because his selling is shoddy, his matches lack a clear story, structure or sense of pacing, very little in the way of build occurs in his matches and his matches post 2003 (with a few exceptions) generally feel comprised of lazy transitions, nearfalls and kickouts which aren't built to or sold extensively and essentially all style with little substance. That being said, I don't begrudge anyone for getting caught up in the pace and style of his matches and totally see why what irritates me is what draws others in. I mean christ I adore Finlay, Jim Duggan, Jerry Lawler, Bill Dundee & Dick Murdoch but I would understand if people didn't get sucked into their best matches because the pace generally is more refined and the action is basic with more thought going into storytelling, character work and pacing. I would disagree if people thought some of their best matches weren't good, but as long as the person explained their reason I could at least understand what specifically bothered them. People who laugh off an opinion irritate me.

Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler, Main Event (1/9/13)

Not massively high on it but I thought it was a step in the right direction and one of the examples of where Ziggler's counter heavy style can shine if there's enough build and general selling in between the nearfalls to hold the match together. Much better way for Ziggler to build genuine nearfalls and test Sheamus whilst making the idea of the wrestler landing the decisive blow being the victor without minimising his signature offence. Thought the middle was a marked improvement and whilst it was still lacking that truly gripping control segment, the mini theme of Ziggler constantly thwarting Sheamus from making a comeback was a cool little narrative before his flurry after Ziggler got too cocky. A couple of transitions in the finishing stretch seemed a little mistimed, but that's easily forgiveable and the only time I thought there was a little suspect selling was Ziggler's running leap into the top rope DDT. Overall a good outing with the long term selling from both men being beneficial in aiding the down time between the counter heavy sequences and ensured this was a better done 'counter orientated' match with both men having to fight to regain control, rather than numerous transitions which felt aimless.
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post #14397 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 03:24 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Ever Wolf View Post
Cena - Unforgiven 05

Cena - Survivor Series 05
I think i'm starting to see a pattern.
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post #14398 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 03:34 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Salt Upon Wounds View Post
I think i'm starting to see a pattern.
I'm gonna stop you in your tracks right there.

Angle vs Cena No Mercy 2003 is an underrated gem. It's a great match yet I never actually see it get any sort of praise around here. A great match build around the fact that Cena cannot outwrestle Angle and Angle cannot outbrawl Cena.

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post #14399 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 03:38 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salt Upon Wounds View Post
I think i'm starting to see a pattern.
What're you talking about? John Cener is the bestest! He beats everybody! And...and...he's so strong!


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post #14400 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 03:38 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Angle/Mysterio from Japan. Now, that was a helluva match.
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