Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 1436 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:40 AM   #14351 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Yup, Henry and to a similar extent Show are good examples of guys still trying to perform instead of just wrestling. Its so amazing to watch even as far back as 1992 WCW and just see how fun, creative and glued to a screen you are when watching Arn, Eaton, Rude, Pillman, Rhodes, Steamboat and Sting do their thing. Effortlessly fun, constantly changing things up and even when they settle on a formula the charisma and showmanship is so grand you don't question the repetitiveness, but rather marvel at how you're in love with a match you've seen countless times.

Joeseph Park actually shocked me, on account of me never giving TNA the credit they could ever book a character in such a way. So subtle and with attention payed to every precise detail, really is something that would have got over big in the 80s let alone in 2012.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:45 AM   #14352 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The Lady Killer View Post
Would like to know why Cena agrees to blatantly bury people like this. You can't tell me he doesn't have any control.
Egomania and insecurity. It's proven that many superstars get more insecure as they're older, everywhere. Plus, he only gives a shit about others to SOME degree, as long as it doesn't touch him. If Cena has/had any brains at all, he would've pushed HARD backstage, he would've MAKE Vince to build someone as his generation rival. Back in 2006, 2007, 2008, etc. But no, Cena ALWAYS wins. JBL, Christian, Jericho, Angle, Triple H, Umaga, Khali, Lashley, Michaels, Jericho, The Big Show, Orton, Batista, Barrett, The Miz, etc etc etc... They're all just RANDOMERS compared to Cena. They come and go. Cena stays on top. Hogan had Savage and Hellwig. Bret had Diesel and HBK. Austin, Rocky and HHH had each others. Cenah? Nah, fuck that shit, let him own people ALL THE TIME! Edge was the closest, and that's about it.


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Did Ziggler even manage to hit his finisher in the cage match? Can't remember. I'm actually beginning to dislike Cena in the ring now. Before it was just his god awful character I hated, but he'd always deliver in the ring. Now he's just in superkamicena mode none fucking stop. HHH put the WCW guys over more in his matches than Cena does with his opponents today. Steiner and Nash at least looked like fucking threats to HHH.
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TV shows are the best entertainment programmes like wrestling. My favourite TV show is RAW and SMACK DOWN. I specially like fight of Rey mysterio and Randy Ortan. It was very amazing fight with lots of stunt.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:46 AM   #14353 (permalink)
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It only seems fitting to discuss a topic like this while I watch the Four Horseman documentary. ARN is one of the most perfect guys off the top of my head. So many times in the matches vs Rockers did he look like a chump while not finding a way to counter the high energy offense despite being the ultimate tough as nails competitor. Then the moment he gets the advantage with Tully, boom. He's a completely different worker. All in one match. He could range his work from this to that in the drop of a hat. Which is brilliant when you really come down to it. You hardly get a shred of that today minus about the same 5 guys. Big Show certainly is one of them, yes. While I didn't love the Last Man Standing vs Del Rio, Show's character work during it was top notch as always.

Park is probably the best character in TNA history. I'll go out on a limb and say that. After seeing just about every match/moment from TNA I really can't think of anyone who rivals it or comes close. Tons of good talent throughout the years. Not so much in the form of character ranks however. That's where Park is head and shoulders above the rest. A purely phenomenal character 100% of the way.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:54 AM   #14354 (permalink)
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Oh I could spend all day writing about Arn and his many ways of warming my heart. By far my favourite spot of his occurs in multi man matches when both of his partners eat a dive/get thrown out of the ring. Arn bails prior and starts mouthing to the crowd about his intelligence and how a guy like him couldn't fall for a cheap trick like that, only to turn around and be met by a babyface. Too many guys don't appreciate the freedom and comical aspect that makes pro wrestling absorbing to watch anymore. They're either intent on making it as serious as possible or trying to impress management to the point where the simpler and finer things in a match are overlooked for the sake of a crowd reaction.

I'd agree on Park being the best written, creative and booked character so far. So much depth and potential and it would be a crying shame if they were to ever drop the character and revert back to Abyss.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:01 AM   #14355 (permalink)
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ARN. Getting excited just talking about some of his moments. Reminds me of something Foley talked about with Chris Candido wanting to encourage being a slightly comedic cowardly heel at all times. So much to the point Foley claimed he stole a few of his antics while feuding with Undertaker. That appreciation is gold and desperately needed right now. It any wrestling promotion. Maybe not so much in Japan or in Lucha situations, but you know what I mean. I know Dolph Ziggler isn't one of the greatest workers ever, but I see him being the type of guy who'll rock that no problem. That alone should have the company backing him. It would add more to Dolph's character and persona too. Oh, and I hate how everyone wants wrestling to be so HATE filled all the time too. In certain situations, fine. All the time? Why? Where is the fun in that? Part of that is why I absolutely adore promotions like Chikara & PWG. They not only have the fun side of wrestling mixed in, but they encourage it. It's bliss, quite frankly.

I think with Joe Park graduating from wrestling school means he'll actually be able to rock the character for quite a time to come.

Oh, and Pillman praise on the Four Horseman DVD atm. Pillman - now that's a character. That man is far too underrated still, in my eyes. Maybe I'll rock his doc next.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:05 AM   #14356 (permalink)
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There was a point last year where Ziggler started to impress me more by incorportating more cocky mannerisms into his work at the beginning of matches, which made his trademark bumping all the more better with the crowd having a reason to want to see him get put on his ass more. He's sort of dropped off a bit in that regard minus things like the floatover headlock and a couple of other spots to show off his agility, but I agree a guy like him should be trying to add depth and make his work reflect that of his character. It works in a live setting to rile up a crowd and let's face it, the writer won't be adding much depth or development to his character anytime soon.

Pillman is a really overlooked babyface, and he's far better in a wrestling capacity in 89-92 than he ever was as a heel, though I concede the Loose Cannon persona was definitely a worthwhile and needed character.

As for CHIKARA, I'd liken watching it to the Attitude Era. I can watch individual short videos such as Taylor and the exploding grenade in slow motion, Mr Touchdown massacring a toy bird and the crowd yelling 'You're a Monster' and Archibald Peck failing horribly in trying a springboard for the first time, but I'm not sure I can watch an entire PPV just yet. Same way I can watch a segment/promo/skit from the AE, but ask me to watch a PPV from '98 or '99 and I'll run faster than Usain Bolt.

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Old 01-16-2013, 08:18 AM   #14357 (permalink)
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We almost sound like fools to think the company would give Dolph those assets to his character at this current state. The way he's being booked, oof. I don't know anymore. He's capable of it, but would WWE really let Dolph morph into one of the better characters today from a pure in ring stand point working the fans more etc? We'll see. Lets not hold our breath or else you and I might not make it to see WrestleMania this year.

Certainly. He single handledly brought out one of the better matches Lex Luger had in his career at Halloween Havoc '89. Pillman's character was as a babyface was dare I say almost on Mysterio level sympathy. Could make those fans root the underdog on. JR on commentary only aided Pillman during those years to make fans want to see the kid achieve so much. WARGAMES '91 TOO. Ah, amazing. Sid's botch only worked b/c of Pillman. If it happened to say, Rick Steiner then it might have ended in a wild brawl backstage. Happening to Pillman only gave him yet another obstacle to overcome and yet another reason for the fans to be encouraged to root him on as the firery face willing to do anything for a win.

I adore the Loose Cannon gimmick too. Enough said on that point. He was wild, over the edge, and brilliant in my personal opinion. Couldn't have done it any better. Too bad it was cut short per usual.

Fair enough. Chikara can be off putting to some with their antics. I can fully understand that. I eat it up, but knowing some could see it and not quite dig it. Even from a match standpoint I think they excel past the antics too. It seems to fuse any and all conceivable aspects of wrestling into the majority of each show. It's pretty great. Just saying.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:28 AM   #14358 (permalink)
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Luger in that timeframe was really excellent in his own right tbf, but Pillman was in a patch where he could work with anyone and everyone. Love the '89 Luger/Steamboat match whilst we're discussing Luger in that period. Shane Douglas is another overlooked babyface in that timeframe, specially the TV match vs ARN with Cornette on commentary. One of the finest put overs of a babyface by Cornette, selling Arn as an entirely different phenom compared to Douglas and saying he's a goner. He buries his chances to the point that Douglas' courage and heart in surviving makes him look incredible. If only Michael Cole could have grasped that ability when he was at his worst as a heel commentator.

As for CHIKARA, I do appreciate how well booked it is by all accounts as well as how they have a unique product which embraces fun and comical aspects of wrestling. My point would just be some of the more heavier storylines which on paper can sound farcical can occasionally be too much for someone like me who's only seen bits and pieces of their light hearted style . As for matches, I really want to track down Kingston/Quack judging by how good Kingston's selling was and his story of needing to be the first singles champion in the company.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:38 AM   #14359 (permalink)
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Ok good. It wasn't just me who actually liked Luger for a spell. I'll still give Pillman a LOT of credit for working the match the way he did. Douglas' work in NWA/WCW only seems to pop in my head with his tags alongside Steamboat. Nothing from a singles capacity sticks out, but if he locked it up with ARN then well, I have to take a look at it. That Cornette, he knew what he was doing a good portion of the time. JR & Cornette on commentary =

The promotion's serious side is often forgotten in the mist of the lighthearted aspects, but it's there. Especially with Kingston. He's got that x-factor about him that when a part of a show was FUN, here comes Eddie to rock and roll into his match ready and willing to put the hurt on his opponent. During the time the major heel faction The BDK were around the general area around Chikara was fairly tense. It certainly shook the foundation from the normal vibe on the shows. A welcomed change in my books during 2010. Gave the promotion a different feel than the norm. Every time the BDK members had a match it was instant reaction. Fans ate up hating the group. Some of those tag team championship matches with Claudio & Ares vs Chikara tandems were so drama filled.

Yes, Kingston vs Quackenbush is a must. All story. Kingston grips you by the heart and flat out makes you pull for him. Even if you were the biggest Mike Quackenbush fan alive. That's his magic. Along with the raw, gritty promos that would make Terry Funk blush. Legit must check out Kingston's Grand Championship defenses from Chikara last year too. vs Brodie Lee (probably his best), Sara Del Rey, & Tadasuke would be right up your alley. The others vs Jigsaw, Dasher Hatfield, & Tim Donst (aka another guy I think should be on your radar with his current promo work) might not be held in as high regard for you, but they're quality too. Definitely give the rugged war vs Lee a go. It's manly.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:50 AM   #14360 (permalink)
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Oh god, Cornette in general is amazing and arguably the best non wrestler personality in the business. He's so energetic, spiteful, disgusting and easily hateable. He also eats a bump in a Rock n Roll Express vs Midnight Express tag that was incredible.

Yeah I've heard about the Brodie Lee defence, will make an extended effort to track a link down. Kingston has forever been a guy I wish was more common on the indy scene, though perhaps part of his allure is his distinct style and appreciation for the finer things in a wrestling match. The match vs Danielson shortly after his firing in 2010 was excellent. Eddie out of price tries to wrestle Danielson on the mat, gets torn apart and has his leg ripped to shreds but out of pure heart he keeps going and finally begins to wrestle his own style before the fuck finish prematurely ends the match.

Aye his promos have always been stellar. I've seen the highly touted promo before High Noon where he pours his heart out and god damn is it poetic. Loved some of the CZW promos he cut against Hero during their war as well. Pure emotion and he played a man descending into lunacy and obsession so observantly.

Yeah I can't fault the long term booking by Quack. I read up on any shows in case anything surfaces which will attract my interest and very rarely does there seem to be a booking decision that leaves you scratching your head. Seems maticulously planned out ahead of time and there's never a story that doesn't have a well built to and meaninful payoff.
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