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post #14121 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-14-2013, 11:45 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Big Show (c) vs Alberto Del Rio, Last Man Standing, Smackdown (1/11/13)

Man, I thought this was a legit great match and this is coming from someone terribly apathetic to recent WWE LMS matches. Unlike a lot of WWE LMS matches, this felt fresher and a more creative/unique approach went into the story and there wasn't an abundance of overly elaborate spots but instead a more thoughtful and smart layout building to the bigger and more impactful moments in the match wonderfully. Show was great as the monster heel. Controlled the pace suitably with a more sadistic and methodical toying of Del Rio and he emoted and sold all the big Del Rio hope spots in a really great manner that it made him look beatable without sacrificing his dominance and still making Del Rio feel like a genuine underdog. LOVED how he sold the arm work throughout especially after spots where he had to use every part of his body, such as the spear through the barricade. It came off as a hinderance which could be exploited and the fact Del Rio targeted it with the steel steps shots was such a smart payoff to the injury angle.

Del Rio himself put in a really stellar performance and impressed me far more than he ever did working heel. Loved how he was made to be a more vicious yet resilient and intelligent wrestler using any opening he could to usurp Show's dominance as evidenced by the great transition into the armbar in the ropes after Show initially blocked the armbar. He bumped and sold well throughout, always appearing in discomfort and in agony even when he was on offence and the way he overcame the KO blow by rolling onto his feet on the floor was such a brilliant spot to show his toughness without compromising Show's finisher. Ricardo was great in between all the big spots, serving as a great manager showing concern for his friend and aiding Del Rio's growing sympathy appeal. Show also had some tremendous facial expressions as the match wore on and especially after Del Rio's escape from the KO punch. Finishing run was sublime with Del Rio selling the struggle in lifting and using the steel steps progressively more and more with each blow, the shoulder he used earlier to contain Show was the focus of the attacks and the build to Show collapsing and Del Rio scrambling to push the table on top of him was marvellous. Smartly structured, great build and pacing to the bigger spots, two great performances from both men and a genuinly enjoyable finish and post match celebration. Everything a LMS match should be.
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post #14122 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-14-2013, 11:49 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I thought the LMS match was decent nothing more.
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post #14123 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-14-2013, 11:50 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOOLCOCK View Post
Big Show (c) vs Alberto Del Rio, Last Man Standing, Smackdown (1/11/13)

Man, I thought this was a legit great match and this is coming from someone terribly apathetic to recent WWE LMS matches. Unlike a lot of WWE LMS matches, this felt fresher and a more creative/unique approach went into the story and there wasn't an abundance of overly elaborate spots but instead a more thoughtful and smart layout building to the bigger and more impactful moments in the match wonderfully. Show was great as the monster heel. Controlled the pace suitably with a more sadistic and methodical toying of Del Rio and he emoted and sold all the big Del Rio hope spots in a really great manner that it made him look beatable without sacrificing his dominance and still making Del Rio feel like a genuine underdog. LOVED how he sold the arm work throughout especially after spots where he had to use every part of his body, such as the spear through the barricade. It came off as a hinderance which could be exploited and the fact Del Rio targeted it with the steel steps shots was such a smart payoff to the injury angle.

Del Rio himself put in a really stellar performance and impressed me far more than he ever did working heel. Loved how he was made to be a more vicious yet resilient and intelligent wrestler using any opening he could to usurp Show's dominance as evidenced by the great transition into the armbar in the ropes after Show initially blocked the armbar. He bumped and sold well throughout, always appearing in discomfort and in agony even when he was on offence and the way he overcame the KO blow by rolling onto his feet on the floor was such a brilliant spot to show his toughness without compromising Show's finisher. Ricardo was great in between all the big spots, serving as a great manager showing concern for his friend and aiding Del Rio's growing sympathy appeal. Show also had some tremendous facial expressions as the match wore on and especially after Del Rio's escape from the KO punch. Finishing run was sublime with Del Rio selling the struggle in lifting and using the steel steps progressively more and more with each blow, the shoulder he used earlier to contain Show was the focus of the attacks and the build to Show collapsing and Del Rio scrambling to push the table on top of him was marvellous. Smartly structured, great build and pacing to the bigger spots, two great performances from both men and a genuinly enjoyable finish and post match celebration. Everything a LMS match should be.
Had a feeling you would be a big fan of this. I'm going to watch it later. I fuckin watched a version of it that didn't have the middle section of the match. They worked through two commercial breaks right? The one I found on dailymotion only had one commercial break. Hopefully I haven't ruined the match for myself.

Did you see Sheamus/Ziggler from Main Event? Thoughts if so.
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post #14124 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-14-2013, 11:53 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I dunno, I'd probably call it better than most of the recent ones. They've all felt largely the same with similar weapons, a reliance on big spots to sell the match and very little in between. Can't think of the last time someone put in a heel performance in a LMS as good as Show did here and Del Rio was a far more smarter and gradually sympathetic babyface who showed fire and heart and worked tremendously hard to find an opening. I didn't even mind Show just being content to hit a move and let Del Rio try and get back to his feet. They made it perfectly clear Show just wanted to get out with the title and his facial expressions perfectly conveyed a sense of cockiness and delight in hurting Del Rio, so it came off far better than a grudge feud match having a LMS match with not much going on in between the spots.

Maybe I just prefer a more relaxed and story driven match not relient on excessive spots compared to a lot of recent WWE LMS matches which feel like a collection of big bumps but not much in the way of selling, story or general structure.

@ Saint Dick. The one I saw on Dailymotion was 16 mins including short post match celebration. Only one commercial break, which came after Del Rio took the apron bump after the armbar and Show was coming around the ring to attack him as he got to his feet. Think they edited the match however because the spoiler report mentioned 2 KO punches and JBL post match referenced 2 punches, but the one I watched felt largely complete.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwp...2#.UPQqsWfz6_s

Haven't seen Sheamus/Ziggler. I'll probably give it a watch since its attracted good praise.

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post #14125 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-14-2013, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I have Daily Motion links to both Ziggler/Sheamus and Show/Del Rio in full if anyone needs them. I made the vids private so they (hopefully) won't be taken down. As well as me wanting to watch, write about and rate EVERYTHING from WWE and TNA this year, I'm also planning to upload any matches worth seeing. While I didn't like the LMS I need to re-watch it when I haven't sat through 3 shows of shit like I did when I first watched it. I probably would have lowered my rating on HBK/Undertaker HIAC if I had watched it after all that trash .
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post #14126 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-14-2013, 12:03 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by WOOLCOCK View Post
I dunno, I'd probably call it better than most of the recent ones. They've all felt largely the same with similar weapons, a reliance on big spots to sell the match and very little in between. Can't think of the last time someone put in a heel performance in a LMS as good as Show did here and Del Rio was a far more smarter and gradually sympathetic babyface who showed fire and heart and worked tremendously hard to find an opening. I didn't even mind Show just being content to hit a move and let Del Rio try and get back to his feet. They made it perfectly clear Show just wanted to get out with the title and his facial expressions perfectly conveyed a sense of cockiness and delight in hurting Del Rio, so it came off far better than a grudge feud match having a LMS match with not much going on in between the spots.

Maybe I just prefer a more relaxed and story driven match not relient on excessive spots compared to a lot of recent WWE LMS matches which feel like a collection of big bumps but not much in the way of selling, story or general structure.

@ Saint Dick. The one I saw on Dailymotion was 16 mins including short post match celebration. Only one commercial break, which came after Del Rio took the apron bump after the armbar and Show was coming around the ring to attack him as he got to his feet. Think they edited the match however because the spoiler report mentioned 2 KO punches and JBL post match referenced 2 punches, but the one I watched felt largely complete.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwp...2#.UPQqsWfz6_s

Haven't seen Sheamus/Ziggler. I'll probably give it a watch since its attracted good praise.
Right. The one I watched was only 9 mins. I just checked and it does only have one commercial break but the one I watched came back from commercial break basically straight to Show's KO punch. Didn't have the barricade spot that you and others have mentioned.

Did you see Punk/Ryback TLC?

Last edited by Saint Dick; 01-14-2013 at 12:05 PM.
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post #14127 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-14-2013, 12:04 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I think its one of those matches that is undoubtedly smart, creative and very well built to, but I could understand the pacing and action which was more basic leaving others less enthralled. I thought it was better than something like Punk/Orton or hell even Christian/Orton on account of the selling, Show and Del Rio performances and the payoff to the early armwork having meaning, but those other matches had greater spots and more direct action whereas Del Rio/Show felt like a gradually building match which put all the emphasis on the story rather than the action.

In short, I think it has all tangibles of a great match, but it might lack that overall spark, investment or genuine action to make others truly care about the story.

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Did you see Punk/Ryback TLC?
Yup, thought it was largely a Punk showcase but it was worked about as well as it could have been given Ryback's limitations and Punk coming off of surgery. I think it was Cal who mentioned it was a bit strange that Punk would regain control quickly after a couple of big bumps, the press slam into the ladder being the most obvious. That being said, Punk generally sold well especially after the table bump which was built to incredibly well instead of being terribly contrived. I dug him using the surroundings to try and keep up with Ryback, evidenced by his continual relience on a weapon nearby or using the steps to do the running knee on the outside. Ryback not grabbing the belt in the dark was pretty fucking stupid, but its pro wrestling and I've learnt to let some instances of stupidity slide when its done to progress the story. Fun match, very good Punk performance, Ryback largely doing all he needed to and looking dominant etc.

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post #14128 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-14-2013, 12:11 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by WOOLCOCK View Post
Yup, thought it was largely a Punk showcase but it was worked about as well as it could have been given Ryback's limitations and Punk coming off of surgery. I think it was Cal who mentioned it was a bit strange that Punk would regain control quickly after a couple of big bumps, the press slam into the ladder being the most obvious. That being said, Punk generally sold well especially after the table bump which was built to incredibly well instead of being terribly contrived. I dug him using the surroundings to try and keep up with Ryback, evidenced by his continual relience on a weapon nearby or using the steps to do the running knee on the outside. Ryback not grabbing the belt in the dark was pretty fucking stupid, but its pro wrestling and I've learnt to let some instances of stupidity slide when its done to progress the story. Fun match, very good Punk performance, Ryback largely doing all he needed to and looking dominant etc.
That stuck out to me as well.

EDIT: About Punk regaining control quickly after the ladder spot, didn't he use that kick of his? I've always thought that was a bit of a desperation move for him which he uses in situations like that to quickly turn the tide of the match. Worked fine for me.

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post #14129 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-14-2013, 12:12 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I noticed in that TLC match, while Ryback was the clear dominant force, Punk looked a lot stronger throughout than in their HIAC match, which was almost a glorified squash. Funny how they try to make Punk look fairly strong 3 weeks before his title match with Rock.

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post #14130 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-14-2013, 12:17 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Saint Dick View Post
That stuck out to me as well.

EDIT: About Punk regaining control quickly after the ladder spot, didn't he use that kick of his? I've always thought that was a bit of a desperation move for him which he uses in situations like that to quickly turn the tide of the match. Worked fine for me.
You might be right there actually. I just thought the bump itself looked pretty impressive especially with the damage it did on the ladder rendering it useless for climbing, then to see Punk almost instantly go back in control just felt a little sudden and unexpected. Still, it set up the table bump nicely with Punk not being content with one knee and trying to go the extra mile to injure Ryback which ended up nearly costing him the match. His selling climbing up the ladder was also really well done.
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