Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 141 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
 
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post #1401 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-20-2012, 09:24 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Ownage™ View Post
Disagree about HHH being mediocre for the majority of his career. He was great in 2000-2001, 2004-2005 and 2008, like one of the best workers in the company kinda great. His earlier stuff is pretty solid. '06 and '07 were interrupted by injuries. It's only '02 and '03 that I would call bad HHH years, and even those years he had the occasional standout match.

As for failing to deliver at Mania, I don't really buy that either. Taker (x3), Cena, WM20 triple threat all met or exceeded expectations. WM24 triple threat, Sheamus, Booker and Owen are good (aren't you quite high on the match with Booker?) and Batista is solid, especially considering how green Batista was at the time. It's only the main events against Jericho and Orton that disappointed, and I wouldn't even call either of them bad.
I agree. You also cant really blame Triple H for not having classic matches when he is in there fighting against Kevin Nash, Scott Steiner, Goldberg, Kane and so on.
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post #1402 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-20-2012, 11:10 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by KingCal View Post
And I honestly wouldn't include HHH in the whole "30 mins at WM to have a classic with". Guy has been mediocre for the majority of his career and has failed to deliver at WM with anyone but Undertaker and Cena.
Michaels and Benoit?

edit: oh.


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post #1403 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-20-2012, 11:20 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I loved Trips even in his attitude era days back in 97-99. He excelled in 2000 having one of the greatest superstar years in memory and was continuing in that form in 2001 till his injury. Returning in 2002 he slowly returned to form but never to his true best. 2003 onwards was pretty underwhelming apart from the odd match there and then simply because of the competition. People would often say burying, I wouldn't.
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post #1404 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-20-2012, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

When I said "failed to deliver" at WM I mean that for a guy presented as one of the GOAT by WWE, he hasn't exactly had many classic matches at the event outside of the triple threat, Undertaker and Cena matches. And its the same for most of his career too imo. He was great from late 99-2001, then he returned in 2002 and was god awful for the most part in 02 and 03. 04 was a little better for him because he got to work Benoit, but even then he wasn't having matches that were that great. 05 he was great in terms of the program he worked with Batista (HIAC was a classic, WM was mediocre, Backlash was alright), and then the program with Flair (and I'd only really call their cage match great, not too fond of the LMS). From 06-now, honestly, aside from matches with Cena, Undertaker and Hardy, he didn't do that much in terms of good matches. Sure, during some of that time he worked with some shitty people, but who hasn't over their career? Even when he worked with great workers (HBK in this example) he still wasn't pulling out matches that I'd call great. He's the Jeff Jarrett of the WWE; likes to say he's the best, gets pushed as the best by the company, but in reality isn't that good.
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post #1405 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-20-2012, 12:02 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by KingCal View Post
When I said "failed to deliver" at WM I mean that for a guy presented as one of the GOAT by WWE, he hasn't exactly had many classic matches at the event outside of the triple threat, Undertaker and Cena matches. And its the same for most of his career too imo. He was great from late 99-2001, then he returned in 2002 and was god awful for the most part in 02 and 03. 04 was a little better for him because he got to work Benoit, but even then he wasn't having matches that were that great. 05 he was great in terms of the program he worked with Batista (HIAC was a classic, WM was mediocre, Backlash was alright), and then the program with Flair (and I'd only really call their cage match great, not too fond of the LMS). From 06-now, honestly, aside from matches with Cena, Undertaker and Hardy, he didn't do that much in terms of good matches. Sure, during some of that time he worked with some shitty people, but who hasn't over their career? Even when he worked with great workers (HBK in this example) he still wasn't pulling out matches that I'd call great. He's the Jeff Jarrett of the WWE; likes to say he's the best, gets pushed as the best by the company, but in reality isn't that good.
You named a bunch in your description then, ha! I think I could list about 20 ****+ Trips matches, he's been the bollocks.
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post #1406 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-20-2012, 12:47 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

There we go on Triple H again...

2002 was awful, except that SummerSlam night. 2003 was okay-ish, but he was injured for most parts despite being World Champion and the state of WWE in terms of the talent pool in Raw was really poor.

From that Michaels match in 2003, he was back to meaning business and that lasted until he cooled down with the DX parodies and all in 2006. After his return in 2007, I can name a handful matches that are good/great, excluding the two WrestleMania classics against Undertaker.

Triple H gets a lot of slack for his stuff in 2002/2003. Apart from that period, Triple H has always been an exceptional talent. Personally, with the exception of his run after the heel turn in 1999 and up until the injury in 2001, I prefer his 2002/2003 "reign of terror" over any part of his career. As a character and the whole the Evolution franchise, I enjoyed that part so much more than the stuff he did afterwards. Preference.

From a wrestling perspective, I think I could name 20 matches that are four stars and above. For me, that's only lesser than Michaels and probably Benoit in WWE. I'm not sure of Benoit.

When people talk of Triple H at WrestleMania, mostly they magnify his matches before the Undertaker match at X-Seven and the bombed main events against Jericho and Orton. Triple H doesn't have a catalog of matches resembling that of Shawn Michaels; the Undertaker lately, and Macho Man--if we consider the time and age of his wrestling peak and the difference in the quality of Savage's matches to other wrestlers' matches at that time. I don't think Hunter had a true WrestleMania classic until 'Mania XX. The Undertaker match at X-Seven was very good, but not a classic or anything. It's amazing to think that it was Undertaker's best match at WrestleMania until that point and probably his best non-gimmick match up until that point too. I consider his match against Booker T at XIX to be a very good match and his best until WrestleMania XIX. The 21 match against Batista wasn't good from a work-rate view, but I think it was a great spectacle and that's the best "put over" match in the main event in WrestleMania history. I consider it to be greater than XX and 22, as far as promoting a talent goes. The "meh" matches would be 24 and 26, although 24 was decent. X-8 and 25 absolutely flopped. If I had to rate his 'Mania matches after "the Game," it'd be:

2000 ~ ** 3/4
X-Seven ~ *** 1/2
X-8 ~ *
XIX ~ *** 3/4
XX ~ *****
21 ~ ***
22 ~ **** 1/4
XXIV ~ *** 1/4
XXV ~ * 1/2 (around there; haven't watched it since then)
XXVI ~ ** 1/4
XXVII ~ *****
XXVIII ~ **** 3/4


I wouldn't call that underwhelming at all. In fact, that's incredible for the flack Triple H receives every morning. Shawn Michaels is Mr. WrestleMania, while the Undertaker has the Streak, which is considered bigger than the World Title. For somebody who doesn't have a special acronym at WrestleMania, I think it's all good.

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post #1407 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-20-2012, 01:54 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Razor King View Post
There we go on Triple H again...
I think most main event or higly praised guys are going to get scrutinized from time to time because the pedestal I guess you can say they are put on by the company and the fans. Hey, you have to live with it for Triple H and I have to for Kurt Angle (I hope I didn't start something just by saying that name ).


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post #1408 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-20-2012, 01:55 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by KingCal View Post
When I said "failed to deliver" at WM I mean that for a guy presented as one of the GOAT by WWE, he hasn't exactly had many classic matches at the event outside of the triple threat, Undertaker and Cena matches. And its the same for most of his career too imo. He was great from late 99-2001, then he returned in 2002 and was god awful for the most part in 02 and 03. 04 was a little better for him because he got to work Benoit, but even then he wasn't having matches that were that great. 05 he was great in terms of the program he worked with Batista (HIAC was a classic, WM was mediocre, Backlash was alright), and then the program with Flair (and I'd only really call their cage match great, not too fond of the LMS). From 06-now, honestly, aside from matches with Cena, Undertaker and Hardy, he didn't do that much in terms of good matches. Sure, during some of that time he worked with some shitty people, but who hasn't over their career? Even when he worked with great workers (HBK in this example) he still wasn't pulling out matches that I'd call great. He's the Jeff Jarrett of the WWE; likes to say he's the best, gets pushed as the best by the company, but in reality isn't that good.
I thought he was a legit great heel worker in 2004-2005. The triple threats with Benoit and Michaels are arguably the two best in company history, lots of good Evolution tags, great match with Shelton Benjamin, then he got more out of Eugene, Batista and Flair than anyone else had at that time. The DX shit took up a lot of 2006 then he got injured and since he came back he's been consistently good in my opinion. Finished '07 with good matches against Hardy, Flair and Umaga and a great LMS with Orton. Had an even better '08 with the big Cena and Hardy PPV matches and lots of good Smackdown TV matches against guys like Shelton, MVP and Taker. Even got something decent out of Khali that year at Summerslam. 2009 was a solid year for him as well and he hasn't been a full time worker since. I'd definitely say he has way more good than bad over his career.

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post #1409 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-20-2012, 02:11 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

HHH may have had a crap 02 and 03 when it comes to match quality. But he really excelled during his promos and lhe carried Raw through a whole load of crap booking. Even in that time he pulled out at least 3 very very good matches -
Booker @ .XIX
Michales @ SS02
Elimination Chamber SS

On a side note, does anyone have any ratings for - Ultimo Dragon vs. Jushin Liger (not sure which match but it was during a tournament with Benoit (and maybe Jericho) early 90s (93?)
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post #1410 of 20566 (permalink) Old 04-20-2012, 02:27 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

All this talk makes me want to get my hands on a compilation of Hunter's entire career.

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