Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 1397 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:34 PM   #13961 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I got done with Raw 2004 just a few months ago and I STILL feel the need of going back and watching it all over again. Perhaps with no Smackdown this time around so I can fully enjoy it. (because SD really slowed the experience down)

Take out Eugene, HBK/HHH's HIAC feud and the Diva Search... then I can call that year pretty much perfect. Benoit as World Champion and the rise of Randy Orton, my two favorite wrestlers. Can't get much better than that!
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:52 PM   #13962 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

HBK/HHH is just.....I don't know. 47 minutes? C'mon son. Was there a reason it was that long and waaay stretched out? 2004 was just HHH/HBK GALORE. And not in a good way. It seemed like they had matches every second pay-per-view.
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:00 PM   #13963 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punter View Post
HBK/HHH is just.....I don't know. 47 minutes? C'mon son. Was there a reason it was that long and waaay stretched out?
No reason other than trying too hard to make it ZOMGSOEPIC! just like the rest of their forced feud(s). Don't think I've seen a match that was as boring as that one. And the feud itself was absolutely TERRIBLE. They overreact as if they want to murder each other and HHH is looking for Shawn all over the damn arena before getting jumped from behind and having every fucking person in the backstage area "breaking it up". SO not into it I was. As much as I enjoyed Benoit/Kane, I think Bad Blood should've been Benoit versus either Hunter or HBK inside Hell in a Cell.

The terrible booking of Benoit's title reign aside, another problem was, as you mentioned earlier, the rushing of Orton's face turn. Made zero sense that he'd beat Benoit completely clean when HHH (or anyone else for that matter) couldn't and then lose the title less than a month later to HHH himself. I don't care how bad his backstage behavior was, if they were gonna push him, they should've gone full force with it rather than pull back. He was extremely over with the crowd and could've been a bigger star had they taken it easy and let him be in Batista's position for the eventual face turn leading into WM21's main event.
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:09 PM   #13964 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

The Hell in a Cell wasn't bad but it wasn't good either. Certainly not the worst hell in a cell match though. Some spots with the weapons they did were great but they took way too long to sell the moves. I understand that they need to show the audience the punishment of the hell in a cell match but they still took way too long to get up. If the match was 25 minutes then maybe it would have been an awesome match but 47 minutes is long.
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:12 PM   #13965 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Benoit was acting up backstage? What is this I hear...details?
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:15 PM   #13966 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Foley is great. I'm watching Mind Games right now. I could watch this match once a day everyday if I had to. The character development of HBK developing an edge and having to get down & dirty with the deranged Mankind is awesome to watch. HBK smacking Earl Hebner in the back of the head in (kayfabe) frustration at one point and tip-toeing around heelish tendencies for a 1st time babyface champion is interesting to watch.

I love how this match has a hardcore edge/brawl-ish feel to it, but still manages to stay, at it's core, a wrestling match. At points it gets close to being more of a brawl (the spot through the announce table, HBK hitting Mick hard in that mask of his repeatedly), but these two greats mix in just the right amount of hardcore moments to give Shawn more of an edge (that he and the WWF both desperately needed at that time), and to further develop the Mankind character as a crazy fuck and someone who could hang with the world champion. They both got the rub here and both came out of this one for the better, which is the ultimate goal of every wrestling match.

It's just a damn shame this was a one-off. Fuck Sid, I would have been all for HBK dropping the title to Mick at Survivor Series in a rematch at MSG.

I love this match.
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:20 PM   #13967 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

The Michaels vs. Mankind match from Mind Games is really getting a lot of love around here. Never watched it. Maybe I should
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:27 PM   #13968 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

So WWE.com listed 50 greatest Raw matches and Shawn Michaels vs John Cena was #1 on the list. Does anyone agree with that?

I was hoping British Bulldog vs Owen Hart for the European title on Raw would be #1 but eh, Shawn Michaels vs John Cena is one of my favorite Raw matches that had me on the edge of my seat so I can't complain there.
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:29 PM   #13969 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
Speaking of Mick Foley I am super psyched for his new DVD set coming out.
Any date announced?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOOLCOCK View Post
I think I'm just pre-conditioned into what I think a 'mask vs career' match should be worked as, and sadly it came off more like a typical Steen hardcore match than a true war which could separate itself from other matches. Like I said I just don't think Steen is a good 'brawler' compared to being a decent hardcore worker. His offence doesn't ever really look brutal or vicious and I just thought the whole thing lacked any real drama or oomph. Dead crowd obviously played a part in that by not reacting to largely anything but I guess Steen and Generico and ROH have different views on what a brawl should be. Different strokes for different folks.

I can't recall if you're much of a Lucha enthusiast, but watch this match as I'd call it a top 3 brawl of all time. Up there with the best Lawler fight:

Sangre Chicana vs Perro Aguayo 2/28/86: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QupMDu8c8Ts

Footage isn't great but I think it adds to the charm of the match. Me and Andy regularly cite the best Lucha brawls as looking like human cockfighting. The ring looks stained with every trace of human DNA and fluid, the bumps and offence are horrificly violent and the drama is constantly at a high thanks to the crowd and wonderfully expressive selling. Andy linked me to a great description of Sangre Chicana the other day, and it really does describe what makes his matches so raw and captivating:
I knew it wouldn't go much beyond Steen teasing the early rip off of the mask. Only I can't remember if Steen was threatened with a DQ warning considering the rules of the Apuesta match with a mask on the line. I looked at it as ROH putting both of the highest stakes possible on the line only for the reason of adding more to the match since it was slated as the "final" battle, pun intended of course. My love of it does dwindle down more and more on rewatches, but I do like it. That's not gonna change. I think it loses its luster when compared to other matches. For what it was - I can dig it. I did think their Last Man Standing blew it away and suited Steen better b/c he wasn't trying to do crazy gnarly spots as he was just trying to ravage Generico to not make the count. Where as in the Fight Without Honor he could have tuned things up better. I'd be more confident in Steen's brawls if I saw the one vs Necro Butcher in a about April of 2008. Personally I think Steen shines when he's rolling in a traditional bout and lets his explosive offense shine on through. Plus, he's a great bully character too. It's what has driven the force in a lot of matches vs Generico.

I don't know if I would claim I'm a Lucha 'enthusiast' quite yet. I'm a fan of course. Love it plenty to appreciate and dig the grand matches/workers to every work down there. I'll favorite the match to witness the beauty of it. And by beauty, I mean the sheer sleaze I can expect from the dirty scoundrels brawling. Bulk of the Lucha I've watched lately has been featuring Negro Casas and his epic trips in what seems to be every Apuesta match EVER.
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:52 PM   #13970 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Just read about the In Your House release. First time using this smiley and damn happy about it.
It's more about the era for me though.
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