Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 1393 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:20 AM   #13921 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Am I the only one who would rank the Foley V Orton street fight over the Foley V HHH street fight?
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:28 AM   #13922 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Maybe - maybe not.

Both are held in such high regard, so it isn't much of a stretch, from a majority perspective, of picking the match from Backlash over Foley vs Trips from Rumble.

They're two of my most watched matches. I know that much is certain.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:59 AM   #13923 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by sharkboy22 View Post
BTW, WOOLOCK, I know this isn't the place to discuss but I saw you posted something about Generico a while back and I share the same view on him as you. So with that being said, what did you think of Generico/Steen FB 2010?

I didn't really like it, not my cup of tea. It was just the typical indy style match imo with weapons. It was just the two of them taking turns constructing some catastrophic device and putting each through it. That and 30 minutes was way, way too much.
Don't like it at all. Crowd is pathetic for it which lessens the impact and overall atmosphere when the only reaction comes after one spot and its far too relient on elaborate setups for spots imo for what should be a true fight to the death. It was always going to suffer from me having watched a lot of Mask vs Hair matches in Mexico and seeing how they worked a true 'brawl' to reflect the hatred and animosity in the match, but Steen has never struck me as a great brawler because he spends far too much time setting up these big spots rather than just brawling and taking the violent bumps to put over the danger in the match.

Jimmy Jacobs for example strikes me as a far better brawler than Steen as far as ROH goes. Steen will set up tables on top of a ladder that's balanced between the guardrail and the ring, Jacobs will just take a backdrop off the top onto the ring apron or take a lunatic spill to the concrete floor to signify the hate and violence that should be a part of a true brawl.

So aye, dead crowd, a lot of stalling and dead filler in between the setups for the overly elaborate big spots, a lack of great brawling and striking from both outside of a couple of Generico headbutts, really lacking a true violent and gripping atmosphere and just not really making itself feel more than a slightly more violent hardcore match. Steen/Generico vs Briscoes from Boston Street Fight is so so so much better as far as a brawl goes. Only goes 14 minutes but there's a ton of ridiculously violent and dangerous bumps which don't require a big setup and you can feel the hatred in everything they do. Crowd is also rabid for everything which obviously helps.
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:10 AM   #13924 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Fuck the dead crowd. It nearly ruined it for me upon a first watch. I dig it now. I'm a mark for Generico. I gladly admit it. That's probably what it is. I don't see the stalling for spots in it. It felt like it moved at a decent enough pace in-between. I've seen much better Generico vs Steen matches all throughout their careers. Gimmicks or non-gimmicks alike.

Now the recent ladder match. Yeah, that's one where the stalling was blatant and things just didn't really come together well.
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:13 AM   #13925 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Foley/Trips, Rumble is probably one of my GOAT matches ever. Love that thing to death. DAT FOLEY. DAT GAME. DEM SNOWFLAKES. ********** Wonderful to see Foley get inducted in a place with such significance to him not to mention the Mecca of WWE arenas. Really looking forward to that one.
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:19 AM   #13926 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Hailsabin View Post
Fuck the dead crowd. It nearly ruined it for me upon a first watch. I dig it now. I'm a mark for Generico. I gladly admit it. That's probably what it is. I don't see the stalling for spots in it. It felt like it moved at a decent enough pace in-between. I've seen much better Generico vs Steen matches all throughout their careers. Gimmicks or non-gimmicks alike.

Now the recent ladder match. Yeah, that's one where the stalling was blatant and things just didn't really come together well.
I think I'm just pre-conditioned into what I think a 'mask vs career' match should be worked as, and sadly it came off more like a typical Steen hardcore match than a true war which could separate itself from other matches. Like I said I just don't think Steen is a good 'brawler' compared to being a decent hardcore worker. His offence doesn't ever really look brutal or vicious and I just thought the whole thing lacked any real drama or oomph. Dead crowd obviously played a part in that by not reacting to largely anything but I guess Steen and Generico and ROH have different views on what a brawl should be. Different strokes for different folks.

I can't recall if you're much of a Lucha enthusiast, but watch this match as I'd call it a top 3 brawl of all time. Up there with the best Lawler fight:

Sangre Chicana vs Perro Aguayo 2/28/86: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QupMDu8c8Ts

Footage isn't great but I think it adds to the charm of the match. Me and Andy regularly cite the best Lucha brawls as looking like human cockfighting. The ring looks stained with every trace of human DNA and fluid, the bumps and offence are horrificly violent and the drama is constantly at a high thanks to the crowd and wonderfully expressive selling. Andy linked me to a great description of Sangre Chicana the other day, and it really does describe what makes his matches so raw and captivating:

Quote:
Then there's Chicana, who looks like he goes from town to town, getting drunk, sleeping in the street, getting into some sort of dispute with a local and winds up being one of the great gunslingers of all time instead of just a wino. I mean, on some level we're supposed to suspend our disbelief that these guys get paid to wrestle and that they do it for a living. Chicana doesn't look like he does it for a living. He looks like he wound up in the ring because he fucked the wrong person's daughter and there's a posse waiting for him if he makes it out alive. One of the most sympathetic babyfaces ever and one of the most despicable heels and probably the sleaziest worker I can think of.
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:02 AM   #13927 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

The WCW title match between Rock and Jericho on Raw 5 Nov. 2001 has never been released on a DVD/BR set, right?
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:09 AM   #13928 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

So there's a Best of In Your House DVD in the works eh?
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:20 AM   #13929 (permalink)
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I'm not mad at this. I'm posting it now because I suspect that it will change very soon (as soon as Monday as I expect Eve to lose her title). That being said, I can't think of too many better champions than this current set-up. Although I liked Wade a lot more pre-injury.

Antonio Cesaro is straight cash, homie. C.M. Punk is still great. I am digging Alberto Del Rio as a babyface. Eve is the best option in the women's division. I would not change any of those.

If I were WWE, I would build the entire company around C.M. Punk, Alberto Del Rio, Antonio Cesaro, Randy Orton & The Shield.

I think the Intercontinental division needs quite a bit of help & Cesaro could use some contenders too. The midcard is really weak right now. I would give guys like Justin Gabriel & Hunico some TV pushes to see if they can catch on. Replacing like The Miz or Kofi Kingston. Kofi needs to try to move up if WWE are ever going to do anything with him & The Miz, as a former WWE champion & guy that main evented Wrestlemania, should be above the midcard belts.

I also like Sheamus but he needs to not be so corny when talking & I think David Otunga & Alex Riley could have a lot of upside. I would use The Usos a lot more too. Even if you don't have a great tag team division a tag team can still get hugely over. Look at The Dudley Boys in ECW. Brodus could be a new monster, like Bundy or 'Quake but man, he can't work for shit.

Why does WWE never use Yoshi Tatsu? He's like the only Asian on the entire roster. I think I've seen him work maybe two matches total the whole time he's been in WWE. One was on Superstars back when that was still on television. The other was during the WWE version of ECW. He wasn't too memorable but I have no idea if this guy can even work or not. I feel like WWE should be going out of their way to make the guys stand apart & feel different from one another. Yoshi Tatsu can definitely fill a void there.

There are a lot of people on the roster that I see money & a lot of potential in. There are also a lot of people that I feel WWE need to really tone down // push back a little. I'm not feeling Dolph Ziggler, Cody Rhodes or Damien Sandow at all, despite knowing how popular they are around here. I don't think AJ Lee works as a heel.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I like the champions in WWE right now. I take quite a bit of flak for never being positive, so there you go. The champions right now in WWE fucking own. TLC was a great Pay-Per-View & Smackdown on Friday was awesome.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:27 AM   #13930 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Well, I like 2 of those champions. 3 in total when we include the tag belts.

Punk as champ is great. He's awesome, and done really well with it despite being involved in some shitty angles and being against some terrible wrestlers (oh hai Ryback).

Barrett is god awful. That being said, so was Kofi. IC title division has been terrible for some time.

Del Rio I still don't give a fuck about. Him ending Show's dominant reign was the dumbest title decision WWE have made in some time. But he's fairly new at this babyface thing. MAYBE he'll improve and do ok. But for now I am not happy he's champ and I'm certainly not happy about how WWE went about ending Show's title reign.

Cesaro is cool. I likes him. Shame he's usually lumbered with terrible opponents though. Khali, Truth etc. And Miz looks to be the next challenger. Urgh. Give him some good opponents and he'll do even better.

Eve... well I don't mind Eve, but the divas title means fuck all. And so does the division.

Team Hell No are a great team, and aside from Rhodes Scholars, who the fuck else is there? PTP are average at their absolute best (and they aren't usually at their best), Usos are pretty crappy, Primo & Epic are shit, Mysterio & Cara aren't good either (Cara flat out blows, Mysterio hasn't been good since he returned)... and uhhh... that the division?
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