[Choke2Death]

Originally Posted by The Lady Killer

It's almost like he had unlimited potential back in 04 as The Legend Killer and it just never really came to fruition.

Blame DA GAME.

Actually I blame whichever idiot thought it was a good idea to turn a cocky, pretty boy looking asshole to a bald-headed, druggie looking psychopath. I think he's done his job pretty well for the role he got after becoming the 'Viper' but he's just much better than that. Also wish he had never gotten those arm sleeves. The tribal tattoos were awesome and all he needed. Even if they have "absolutely no meaning" in his own words.

[Clique]

Originally Posted by The Lady Killer

Nothing is worse than clothesline -> clothesline -> power slam -> draping DDT -> RKO OUTTA NOWHERE~! though.

Well that and shoulder block -> shoulder block -> side slam -> five knuckle shuffle -> AA OUTTA NOWHERE~! comes close.



But I agree, Randy has become pretty formulaic with his signature moves. Still a capable worker and consistent technically with what he does. I'd say Alberto Del Rio is in the same boat being technically sound but missing an added element to make him more engaging to watch for the most part.

[The Lady Killer]

I've tried to block that sequence of events out of my mind, Clique. Thanks for the reminder.

[The Beast Incarnate]

Everytime Cena and Orton face off, it's just the WORST. They act as if Cena and Orton have this big storied rivalry with some of the greatest matches ever It's honestly more forced than any Trips/Orton or Trips/Shawn encounter that I've ever seen. SO FUCKING RIDICULOUS.

Still think Triple H and Cena should have swapped spots for Wrestlemania XXV and we could have had Edge/Trips and Cena/Orton as main events, FAR MORE INTERESTING THAN TRIPS/ORTON FOR THE 30th FUCKING TIME. Plus, Cena-Orton would have been somewhat FRESH as a singular feud by then, unlike Trips-Orton, who wrestled two fucking singles matches on PPV less than a year before !

X2 What C2D said. Orton as a psychopath heel ? C'mon man...

[Choke2Death]

Originally Posted by KingOfKings

Everytime Cena and Orton face off, it's just the WORST. They act as if Cena and Orton have this big storied rivalry with some of the greatest matches ever It's honestly more forced than any Trips/Orton or Trips/Shawn encounter that I've ever seen. SO FUCKING RIDICULOUS.

I disagree. But I wont spoil too much since I'm only 3 matches away from finishing the series of FIFTEEN matches!

And fuck yes @ Orton/Cena main eventing WM25. But to HHH/Orton's credit, the build-up was great.

[WOOLCOCK]

As I mentioned pages back, its not like Cena's comebacks typically are that much better than Orton's in terms of offence and switching up the routine. However there's far more build and magnifying the comeback as a pivotal part of the match in the best Cena matches that really manages to overcome more often than not the flaws in his comeback. He bumps, sells and times his comeback so well generally coupled with a greater sense of speed and urgency that its formulaic approach doesn't come off as poorly as Orton's which often lacks the timing, the drama or indeed any real sense of accomplishment. Too often an Orton comeback feels effortless and more a mere progression into the finishing stretch. Whether the laid back and less frenetic approach is done to fit with the 'methodical Viper' I'm not sure, but it lacks the passion, fire and overwhelming drama that makes a great babyface comeback.

The likes of Steamboat, Lawler, Funk, Mysterio and many more typically didn't deviate from a set structure of offence in their comeback, it was their work beforehand in building and milking the eventual comeback that drew the fans into the match and subsequently brought more drama and accomplishment to the comeback. That's the difference to me between Orton and the better babyface workers on the roster.

* This also acknowledges that Cena's comeback can still be done in a rather shitty way, usually on throwaway TV matches and the odd PPV match.

[Clique]

Originally Posted by KingOfKings

Everytime Cena and Orton face off, it's just the WORST. They act as if Cena and Orton have this big storied rivalry with some of the greatest matches ever It's honestly more forced than any Trips/Orton or Trips/Shawn encounter that I've ever seen. SO FUCKING RIDICULOUS.

The best part about this is how the audience no sold their stare off which was suppose to be an "epic moment" in the Royal Rumble match a couple of years ago. Just DEAD SILENCE

Speaking of Rumble stare offs, I thought Taker & Show eyeing each other in the 2009 was awkward yet cool in how they built up confronting each other in the match. I thought they may feud after that they were so serious.

[The Lady Killer]

Originally Posted by Choke2Death

Blame DA GAME.

I would never.

Cena's comebacks are fucking terrible on paper as well but his at least evoke a bit of a dramatic element when in the right environment and with the right opponent, whereas Orton's always seems to lack any sort of effort or real meaning beyond simply going through the motions.

[Dark Church]

Face Orton had one of my favorite matches of 2011 at Summer Slam against Christian. I have it at ****1/4. I loved it but that may be just me. I do think that Orton is a more natural heel but he can pull off being a face.

[The Beast Incarnate]

I think Orton isn't bad as a face at all. As a matter of fact... Face viper Orton > HEEL viper Orton. ATLEAST HE SMILES AS A FACE

Cena's comebacks don't piss me off at all. For as much shit as he gets, he knows how to pull off a comeback pretty damn well if you don't think or remember his Over The Limit Performance against THE JIZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Then again, MIZ in an I Quit match ? Ew.