Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 1361 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Indy Wrestling, Lucha Underground, Women of Wrestling Forums

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post #13601 of 20560 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 03:34 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by sharkboy22 View Post
Selling is what makes or breaks a match for me cause selling is what creates the suspension of disbelief. Great selling creates the illusion, the magic that is pro wrestling.
Pretty much. Selling is what invokes drama, emotional investment and which drives the comeback and heat section to greater levels. As you mentioned though, its important to understand the depth in great selling. Its not just selling a limb like your life depends on it, its knowing how and when to react with your mannerisms and facial expressions. Selling the desperation to mount a comeback, selling the anger and fire in your comeback with well executed but energetic offence, as a heel you need to know when to shift your emotions, when to be cocky, arrogant, angry, fearful and eventually desperate.

It annoys me when people think selling and storytelling only lends itself to limbwork and heat sections. Storytelling can come through the contrast in characters. Take World of Sport for example. Mostly pure grappling, but numerous guys are presented as better grapplers and that creates an underdog/hierarchy where you can root for one guy to score an upset. The Brits also don't get enough credit for how they time the grappling, the running of the ropes and the nearfalls to create the drama. I don't know how anyone could watch Steve Grey vs Clive Myers, essentially the British precursor to Flair/Steamboat and not pick up on the storytelling and character dynamic pitting the working class and humble Grey against the international superstar in Myers.
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post #13602 of 20560 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 03:37 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Undertaker vs Batista - WM23 - **** 1/2

Watched this match for the first time since it aired, love it, some great work by Batista(yeah i know lol), one of the first bumps 'Taker takes where he crashes over the steps too, the spot through the announce table, all the big moves come out to play, i just wished it went a bit longer, like Batista had kicked out of the tombstone and just made it laster another 5 mins or so, i know it wasnt the main event (again) but hey-ho, looking forward to the other matches in their series now.
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post #13603 of 20560 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 03:41 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)
Talked about putting together a complete list of all the really good matches this year and I think this is good enough to be on it. Really fun TV title match with a hot crowd. Good use of the TLC stip as nothing seemed overly contrived and the environment covered for Ryback's limitations. Thought Punk trying to fuck up Ryback's leg only to mess up his own knee was great (Punk sold it well). Also dug the setup for the spot where Punk went through the table. That could've easily been one of the overly contrived looking spots we see all too often in this type of match but Punk hitting the high knee twice because the ladder was useless made sense. The actual bump Punk took that broke the ladder was cool too. The interference finish was expected so didn't really take away from the match for me. Ryback looked fine in what is definitely his best match so far and Punk worked the impressive, resourceful but lucky heel champion role nicely. Good stuff.

The List:

1. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)

Will watch Cena/Ziggler later to see if it's worthy.
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post #13604 of 20560 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 03:52 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Cena/Ziggler was alright but the amount of things Cena kicked out of is just ridiculous and had me shaking my head at the end of it all. I guess they were making a statement that 2013 is going to be Cena's year but fuck, they didn't have to render Dolph's offence completely meaningless to do it and I'm not even a Ziggler fan.
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post #13605 of 20560 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

So far I've watch EVERY televised WWE and TNA match. Did you know there are now SIX WWE shows a week? Fucking SIX. MOTY so far for me is TLC at ***1/4. TONS of shit under * lol. The year hasn't gotten off to a great start, though it has only been a week . Planning on continuing to watch everything in order to keep a full list of every match so when the end of the year comes I can actually put together a decent list of shit . Also keeping a note of promos and storylines too. Got a whole one promo so far on my list, shame Rock had to ruin part of it though.
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post #13606 of 20560 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 03:58 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

While we're on the topic of selling, Punk/Ryback. No. Just no! I hated that match. Hated it watching it live. Couldn't get into the match at all. Why? Piss poor selling. The selling was fine on Punk's end. It's Ryback who stank up the joint. I can't understand why Punk would even allow Ryback to just get back up like that after repeatedly hitting him in the leg with the chair. I had it at 2 stars but fuck it! ★1/2 And that's mostly for the awesome ending.

Another important aspect of selling- GETTING TO YOUR FEET. Once you get to your feet and begin your firery comeback that's when the selling ends cause that's when the heat segment ends cause that's when it's time to send the fans home with your babyface comeback.

If you notice most matches, when the babyface gets to his feet (after a heat control segment) he may start throwing punches and in between he will hold the arm (if it was the arm being worked) and the heel would just yank it and get him back down. That's the basic short comeback there. There's more complex ways to do it but at the end of the day, the ensures that the babyface gets back down on the mat and starts back selling.

From the moment you get to your feet and start doing jumping jacks, then you've broke the illusion and my disbelief is no longer suspended. Which was the case of Ryback. Punk's working that leg like a motherfucker and Ryback gets up and begins a fiery comeback. When you do that (as we saw with Punk last night) you then have to re-work the heat segment to try to gain the babyface some sympathy. It's stupid and it's bad storytelling imo and is one of my biggest irks in pro wrestling.

Despite being one over motherfucker, Ryback still has a lot of work to do. I'm not a critic of his in-ring work because he can't go 20 minutes. Please, that means fuck all at this point. I'm not a fan of his work for that bullshit he pulled last night. And again, why would Punk allow it? He had to re-work his entire segment and in the end the chair shots to the leg were more aesthetics because it really had no impact on the match whatsoever. It's just a bad match in my books.

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post #13607 of 20560 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 03:58 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Brock/HHH was never going to be Brock/Cena. They probably shit themselves after watching that thing back and seeing how barbaric it was lol. Matches like that aren't supposed to happen in 2012 WWE. Brock's focus was entirely on the arm. He went in with the intentions of inflicting as much pain on that arm as possible so that he could break it again. Everything he did in the match was targeted to the arm from the second the bell rang. He focused his attack on the arm and nothing else. Trips sold the arm like a boss. He found the weakness in Brock's stomach and everything he did after that was focused on Brock's stomach. Brock sold the stomach like a boss. The added concern of Heyman was GOAT.

Those are just some of the reasons why I loved it and why I rate it so highly. It really is a marmite match though, that much is for sure lol.
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post #13608 of 20560 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 04:08 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

If you went into Brock/HHH expecting Brock/Cena, then you already set up yourself for disappointment. One of the most brutal matches of all time in that Brock/Cena.

But I found Brock/HHH to be brutal in its own right. As Starbuck said, things like Brock constantly attacking the arm. I mean that was the story of the match. And the finish was just the icing on the cake when you take into consideration all the arm work and Trips' selling.

Plus the match was hardcore in its own way too. I found Brock jumping off the table to be a cool and innovative spot which I'm sure he did on the spot and was not planned in the back.

Plus, DAT FINISH. Damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry bout that but the finish was beast and is one of the best finishes to a match I have ever seen. I really thought they were going for the played out "Cover! Cover! 1, 2 noooooo!" but holy shit did it catch me off guard. The match put of Lesnar as a beast too. Fuck the match was great!

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post #13609 of 20560 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 04:17 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Brock buried the Pedigree. Is that even possible?
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post #13610 of 20560 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 04:27 PM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

At this point and time in the career of DUR GAME it is impossible to bury the pedigree. If anything it just showed how difficult Brock is to put down.

Rusev | Sami Zayn | Dean Ambrose | Alberto Del Rio | Jack Swagger
Timothy Thatcher | Chris Hero | Scott Dawson | Dash Wilder | Roderick Strong
Summer Rae | Charlotte | Carmella | Becky Lynch | Paige

Panthers - Red Sox - Nuggets - Mets
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