Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread - Page 1317 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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post #13161 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-03-2013, 02:03 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by The Lady Killer View Post

6:20 - Tornado DDT counter into SWISS DEATH =
Holy shit!

Cesaro has literally been on fire with his work.

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post #13162 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-03-2013, 02:06 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

He provides AT LEAST 1 "oh shit!" moment in every match. PLEASE give him 15-20 minutes w/Danielson or DOLPH.

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post #13163 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-03-2013, 02:40 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

^^The 'E seriously need to get their ass in gear bringing new faces into the main event. Cesaro can become a bulldozer of a heel along with adding some more title reigns (you know, when they become prestigious again)and you have yourself the obstacle of a beast that is his Swedish Death.

Just giving my two cents.
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post #13164 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-03-2013, 02:55 AM
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I just watched summerslam 2012 and Brock/Triple H was very disappointing. I gave it **1/2 and it barely got that. There was way to much standing around from Brock.i also didn't like the ending. Brock just takes a pedigree and immediately slaps on the kimura when Triple H goes for a cover.

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post #13165 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-03-2013, 04:27 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

I never understood Morrison hate on this forum. Around the time his contract was coming to an end everyone seemed to be happy to see him go.

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post #13166 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-03-2013, 05:26 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Best In The North Pole View Post
Watching RAW 100 and VINCE RUSSO randomly appears on it to introduce Hart's work-shoot on Vince from 1997... DA FUCK ?

I own that Morrison DVD and I could have sworn that it features a PUNK match that's also pretty awesome, with Morrison actually going over in the end over the current Champion, another example of WTF booking by the E' over the last few years. HOWEVER.... Morrison's DVD is worth it for DAT MATCH vs REY.
Had the same reaction when i saw Russo on the NWO dvd. Morrison went over Punk on SD in back-to-back matches with the wtf booking for me being after the matches. After the 1st match Punk shakes Morrison's hand then gives him the GTS and after the 2nd match Morrison offers his hand and Punk refuses to shake it. You'd think it'd be the other way around.

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post #13167 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-03-2013, 06:54 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by sharkboy22 View Post
The problem with Punk/Cena is that once you've seen one, you've pretty much seen all. It's the same chain wrestle for a bit, bust out a sub, counter it, Punk hits a GTS, Cena kicks out, Cena hits AA and Punk kicks out, Punk attempts to hit a high spot but misses. Some more finisher kick outs. It's just the same crap all the time. It's like watching a watered down version of an ROH match. And by watered down I mean, it's missing about 20 more kick outs and a couple more high spots to be classified as an ROH match.
Eh, if you're going to generalise a match like that then it can be applied to almost any formula/style of match. Lawler matches are going to be slow start, punch, brawl, blood, strap down comeback, finish. Flair matches are going to be beginning full of schtick, extended Flair in peril segment, transition into Flair control, comeback, finish which more often than not isn't decisive. Lawler & Flair are two of my favourite guys period, let alone just strictly US wrestling. The point I'm making is that almost any wrestler who develops a style is going to build stages/phases of their match and then work a lot of spots/sequences around those themes. Punk/Cena has the character dynamic between the guy the company adores and the guy the older fans embrace as what they want in a pro wrestler.

Most of their matches play off of Punk being billed as a more complete 'wrestler' and Cena trying to play his game with more chain wrestling and 'putting the marks in their place' than you'll get in a typical Cena match. The general theme of their matches tends to revolve around building a match which highlights their chemistry and Punk in particular being a perfect foil for Cena, who in the process puts in a performance you don't get out of him on a nightly basis and which ensures we get an intriguing match dynamic.

Their matches have finisher kickouts, but that's been a staple of WWE Main Event storytelling really since the Attitude Era exploded. WWE is built upon a live experience, hence why guys are given specific movesets and spots they'll plug into their match in order to generate a reaction: Orton doing the Viper coiling, Cena and the 'you can't see me' schtick, Edge having a meltdown in the corner setting up a spear, HBK nip up and SCM motion, Batista spinebuster into Warrior esque pulling of the ropes etc. Finisher kickouts aren't a problem per se, its when the finishers aren't protected, built to, sold extensively or generally just poorly timed that problems occur. People generally don't react to finishers on the Indy scene these days because very few are protected, because a lot of guys believe kicking out of it creates a better nearfall than building to the move being hit and the struggle the opponent has in trying to avoid certain defeat.

Punk had to kick out of two AAs at MITB, as well as not tapping to the STF. The match was built on elevating Punk character wise as well as the eye's of the casual fans as something far greater than they expected. He wasn't portrayed as a man whose mouth was talking a game he couldn't deliver, it was done to make fans question how they'd slept on a guy being able to take Cena to the limit. The nearfalls were also obviously done to milk the partisan Chicago crowd as well as the online audience who were hooked on the sympathetic workmanlike Punk trying to climb the mountain and disperse the golden boy Cena. I do wish that post MITB, they might be a little more creative with their finishes, but I like the way they build to and successfully counter the others' arsenal. Basically I don't get the impression especially from the MITB match, that the finishers in themselves aren't protected. Cena's image means the AA always feels like a victory even if plenty of people up and down the card have kicked out of it, and the GTS sans Cena is arguably the most protected finisher in the company, which made Bryan kicking out of it all the more impressive and unexpected.

The point about ROH and twenty finisher kickouts again feels an unnecessary generalisation. I'm by no means an endorser of 2012 ROH or a lot of the big Indy scene, but like WWE, New Japan, CMLL or other companies ROH has a style that when executed well lends itself to being unique whilst also embracing elements that make a great match: storytelling, build, character work, selling and pacing. I don't see how someone could watch Joe, Danielson and Nigel in their reigns and not get the impression that they're building a match with far more depth than strikes and kickouts. I just feel that sometimes you're too alienated and biased against independent wrestling that you'll throw unnecessary putdowns into an argument which doesn't need to be made. You didn't have to draw upon ROH or the indy scene when discussing Cena/Punk, or at the very least you could have made a better comparison instead of something that resembled a strawman's argument.

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post #13168 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-03-2013, 07:23 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Just watched Top RAW 100 moments Disc 1.

If you want to remember old great and funny moments, this DVD is for you:

- Eugene as RAW GM for one night
- HBK and Jannety in the barber shop
- Vince McMahon bald
- Cena vs HBK match in London
- Edge retirement speech

"I hate this idea that youíre the best. Because youíre not. Iím the best. Iím the best in the world. Thereís one thing youíre better at than I am and thatís kissing Vince McMahonís ass.

Youíre as good as kissing Vince McMahonís ass as Hulk Hogan was. I donít know if youíre as good as Dwayne though. Heís a pretty good ass kisser. Always was and still is."
CM Punk
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post #13169 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-03-2013, 10:07 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

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post #13170 of 20566 (permalink) Old 01-03-2013, 10:19 AM
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Re: Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread

Read Brock's book the other day, and it seems like he pretty much loves everybody in the wrestling business but despises everything about backstage politics and on the road travelling. It was really interesting when he talked about what he felt were his best matches ;

- vs Rob Van Dam (Vengeance 2002)
- vs Hogan (Smackdown 2002)
- vs Rock (Summerslam 2002)
- vs Undertaker (Unforgiven 2002)
- vs Undertaker (No Mercy 2002) ; Brock Cites this is being his absolute best match in the book.
- vs Angle (Wrestlemania XIX)

The book is really WRESTLING heavy which makes it awesome automatically, but you can tell by reading it how much respect he has for guys like Taker (who he talks about like the locker room godfather) and how he feels Taker is essentially the greatest ever. He even talks about his respect for Ric Flair, even though he claims he never wants to be anything like Flair. FUCK, he dedicates a whole chapter expressing his love for Curt Hennig, what a great book.... Even though I know this isn't a BOOK FORUM (that would be hilarious) but I just needed to say that it's awesome.

Made me think about something ; Lesnar's most underrated match and Lesnar's most overrated match.

The obvious pick for most underrated would have to be the Stretcher match with The Big Show @ Judgment Day 2003. I've been pimping that match as a classic and Show's best singles for seemingly almost 10 years now but it seems as if nobody wants to throw more than *** at it. Fuck, a ton of people give it like... **. Complete fucking nonsense, it's a fucking classic !

Overrated ? I don't know about this one... Probably Backlash 2003 vs John Cena, which I do really like for the absolute stiffness by both men..... But it's not a four star match like some people claim due to who's in it. Just because they wrestled a top 10 match in company history 9 years later doesn't make the earlier one any better... Even though it's still awesome

"He's not the biggest. He was never the strongest. He was never the fastest. He was overlooked. He went in the sixth round. So with that being said, all of the intangibles that a quarterback is supposed to have, they overlooked it with him because it was burning from inside of him" - Ray Lewis on Tom Brady
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